Naruto and Sasuke vs Aizen and Boros

[Cody]

At their peak, how would the two ninjas fair against Boros from OPM, and Aizen(at his peak) from Bleach? Can Sasuke see through Aizens illusions? Can Naruto match the speed and power of a guy who can glass the surface of the earth?

[Nik Hasta]

Aizen at his peak is kind of ridiculous.

Even with an enormous amount of his total power stripped away by the Mightiest Chair he's still able to defend most of Seireitei just by flexing his aura at oncoming threats. His only issue is that, by the requirements of his Shikai, he's required to draw his sword and say "My sword is called Kyoka Suigetsu," and then he's got them. If that's covered by standard knowledge then the ninjas might be able to take steps to stop that from being an issue.

I would be of the opinion that Aizen's illusions have high enough feats that Sasuke wouldn't be able to see through them. If it worked on Yhwach, I think Sasuke isn't seeing through them.

Boros is tricky to figure out. He's certainly physically much stronger than them - between his moon kick and his obliteration of a large portion of the interior of a city sized space ship just by punching in it's direction puts him comfortably beyond most people in Naruto beyond like... full Jyuubi Obito perhaps? His speed is a problem because we only ever see him do stuff against someone who is 1) Leagues above him and everyone else in the setting 2) Not trying very hard.

As I recall, Word of God is that Boros is about as strong as God Killer Fist Garou. Now, I know that's not a feat technically but if he's in that ballpark of speed then the ninjas might have some issues because Garou is ridiculously fast.

It's a tough fight to tease out... I'd maybe lean... Aizen and Boros...? Maybe...? I'm not super committed in either direction at the moment.

[Cody]

Well according to word of god, the laser Madara shot at Naruto was a legit laser moving at the speed of light. At the very least, if we assume Boros and Garou are about the same speed(don't see why not),then I would imagine they would all be in roughly the same speed ballpark. Maybe?

You don't think Sasukes Rinnegan could see through Aizens illusions? Did Ywach have any feats to suggest he could see through that stuff in the first place?

[Nik Hasta]

Well according to word of god, the laser Madara shot at Naruto was a legit laser moving at the speed of light.

What feat are you referring to because I'm very unwilling to put Naruto into a significant fraction of lightspeed level based on a WoG statement.

At the very least, if we assume Boros and Garou are about the same speed(don't see why not),then I would imagine they would all be in roughly the same speed ballpark. Maybe?

If you're trying to argue that Naruto can authentically dodge actually lightspeed attacks, depending on which feat you're referencing above, he would be significantly faster than Garou and Boros.

You don't think Sasukes Rinnegan could see through Aizens illusions? Did Ywach have any feats to suggest he could see through that stuff in the first place?

Yhwach's thing, or one of his many things, was that he could see and perceive all possible timelines and choose what the future held or something. Illusions that can trick even pseudo-omniscient future vision seem a bit above what the Rinnegan has been shown to do.

Heck, I don't recall the Rinnegan having much beyond the Sharingan or Byakugan in terms of penetrating illusions offhand but it's been a while since I read the back end of Naruto beyond specific feat hunting so I might be forgetting stuff.

Also, in terms of presentation, he was like... a reality warping god man final boss type which, in terms of presentation, feels a bit above Sasuke's position.

[Cody]

What feat are you referring to because I'm very unwilling to put Naruto into a significant fraction of lightspeed level based on a WoG statement.

Madara shot a laser at Naruto when they fought after Naruto and Sasuke received a buff by the sage. Naruto then proceeded to dodge it as point blank range:



^was apparently as fast as light.

If you're trying to argue

I'm not going to argue in a topic I made. I just mentioned a WoG statement, that's all.

that Naruto can authentically dodge actually lightspeed attacks, depending on which feat you're referencing above, he would be significantly faster than Garou and Boros.

Alright, what about with speed equalized?

Heck, I don't recall the Rinnegan having much beyond the Sharingan or Byakugan in terms of penetrating illusions offhand but it's been a while since I read the back end of Naruto beyond specific feat hunting so I might be forgetting stuff.

It was merged with his EMS, allowing him to retain the powers of his previous eyes, while gaining the abilities of the Rinnegan. It was why he was still able to use he Amaterasu and Susanoo

[Nik Hasta]

Madara shot a laser at Naruto when they fought after Naruto and Sasuke received a buff by the sage. Naruto then proceeded to dodge it as point blank range:



^was apparently as fast as light.

I'm going to just go "No, a single ambiguous feat of dodging a generic-ass laser beam without any kind of corroborating feats beyond WoG does not the lightspeed make,"

I'm not going to argue in a topic I made. I just mentioned a WoG statement that's it.

I mean, it's only you and me in here. You're presenting counter-arguments, I can only respond in kind.

Alright, what about with speed equalized?

Boros runs interference on the ninja, which he's more than powerful enough to do, Aizen holds up his sword and says "Yo, check out my Kyoka Suigetsu," and that's game.

It was merged with his EMS, allowing him to retain the powers of his previous eyes, while gaining the abilities of the Rinnegan. It was why he was still able to use he Amaterasu and Susanoo

I asked what it had beyond that which this specifically isn't.

In any case, it only has the abilities of the Sharingan as far as implied illusion penetration power goes? Yeah, I'm beating on the illusions that last forever and effect a god man who is seeing all possible timelines.

[Cody]

I mean, it's only you and me in here. You're presenting counter-arguments, I can only respond in kind.

What was my argument? All I did was mention what the WoG said(just like you did when referencing Garou),while this:

At the very least, if we assume Boros and Garou are about the same speed(don't see why not),then I would imagine they would all be in roughly the same speed ballpark. Maybe?

Was me making an assumption based on what you said(Boros and Garou being even based on WoG statements), then assuming they were in the same ballpark while differing to you for your opinion on the Mater with the word "maybe?". That isn't an argument Nik. The Op isn't really supposed to do that for their own topic iirc.

And please don't try to argue with me on whether or not I was making some sort of argument, I know my own intentions, and arguing was not one of them. If you took it that way, then I'm sorry, that wasn't the intent. So let's just move past that.

I'm going to just go "No, a single ambiguous feat of dodging a generic-ass laser beam without any kind of corroborating feats beyond WoG does not the lightspeed make,"

While we do go based off feats here and typically not author statements, shouldn't author intent be taken into consideration? Dude has light as part of the name, and looks like a laser(which doesn't always mean much either I'll admit right now). I mean I'm all for forgoing it for a fight, but I am curious why you do not believe it should be used.

I asked what it had beyond that which this specifically isn't.

Sorry, was in a rush so I didn't read this part clearly. He only has one so he wouldn't have all of the abilities that Pain showed off, it gives him a ability boost and gives him the ability of pattern recognition, being able to help him analyse patterns inside codes, and by comparing them to similar patterns, decipher writing iirc. It also gave him the ability of Space–Time Ninjutsu. With it, he can perceive distortions in the flow of time, able to see events that happen as normal. It gave him the technique called Amenotejikara, which allows him to instantly swap places of any two targets in a specific range. After the timeskip, his Space–Time Ninjutsu became advanced enough to travel through dimensions, even with others people.

[The Drunkard Kid]

Wait, when did Aizen use illusions against Ywach again?

It's been awhile since I read it, and the Quincy arc was all kinds of forgettable to me beyond some of the random ass pull power ups that kind of pissed me off (like Hitsugaya getting a grown up form and power up when his countdown ended instead of losing his bankai mode as per previous implications, Nanao's never before implied ultra-powerful familial zanpakutou, and Tite Kubo's attempt to get Rumiko Takahashi to sue him by way of Neko-ken Yoruichi after she failed to take the bait that was the Shikon no Hogyouku, possibly due to thinking that Rin-ne was her calling him out), but I thought that Kyoka Suigetsu got destroyed at the end of the Deicide arc and Aizen didn't actually use illusions so much as just manage to distract Ywach during their conversation so that he essentially lost track of time, unless you're referring to another instance than the one that I'm thinking of.

[Nik Hasta]

Was me making an assumption based on what you said(Boros and Garou being even based on WoG statements), then assuming they were in the same ballpark while differing to you for your opinion on the Mater with the word "maybe?". That isn't an argument Nik. The Op isn't really supposed to do that for their own topic iirc.

And please don't try to argue with me on whether or not I was making some sort of argument, I know my own intentions, and arguing was not one of them. If you took it that way, then I'm sorry, that wasn't the intent. So let's just move past that.

I think I see the issue, I read your previous statement like this;

"WoG says Naruto has lightspeed reactions. I am assuming Boros and Garo are in the same ballpark [read:as said lightspeed level],"

Rather than your actual meaning which was:

"WoG says Naruto has lightspeed reactions. Unrelated to that, I am assuming Boros and Garou are in the same ballpark [read:as each other]"

Confusion resolved.

Also, OP can totally contribute to their own threads. I don't know where the notion that you shouldn't comes from.

While we do go based off feats here and typically not author statements, shouldn't author intent be taken into consideration? Dude has light as part of the name, and looks like a laser(which doesn't always mean much either I'll admit right now). I mean I'm all for forgoing it for a fight, but I am curious why you do not believe it should be used.

Nothing else in Naruto really suggests that level of speed. I was in a thread where we had someone come and present a bunch of feats that were meant to be lightspeed and I went through them point by point and none of them were concrete enough to really carry it.

A somewhat ambiguous feat of Madara making a beam and Kishimoto going "Oh yeah, that was totally meant to be lightspeed," doesn't change my reading of the things that happen in the text.

If we go with them being roughly similar in terms of speed, then see my assessment above. Once Aizen lands his Shikai then it's pretty much game over.

Sorry, was in a rush so I didn't read this part clearly. He only has one so he wouldn't have all of the abilities that Pain showed off, it gives him a ability boost and gives him the ability of pattern recognition, being able to help him analyse patterns inside codes, and by comparing them to similar patterns, decipher writing iirc. It also gave him the ability of Space–Time Ninjutsu. With it, he can perceive distortions in the flow of time, able to see events that happen as normal. It gave him the technique called Amenotejikara, which allows him to instantly swap places of any two targets in a specific range. After the timeskip, his Space–Time Ninjutsu became advanced enough to travel through dimensions, even with others people.

I'm not seeing anything here that trumps the feats for Kyoka Suigetsu myself.

Wait, when did Aizen use illusions against Ywach again?

...

but I thought that Kyoka Suigetsu got destroyed at the end of the Deicide arc and Aizen didn't actually use illusions so much as just manage to distract Ywach during their conversation so that he essentially lost track of time, unless you're referring to another instance than the one that I'm thinking of.

Whether Kyoka Suigetsu was destroyed or not in the Decide Arc, he seems to have it back in Sternritters arc. When Shunsui goes and releases some of the seals of Aizen in the Mightiest Chair(TM) he's instantly able to use his illusion powers once more.

With regards to his interactions with Ywach; right at the end of the series Yhwach is taking on Renji and Ichigo. He blasts Ichigo away, cuts Renji's arm off and is then attacked by Aizen. He then destroys Aizen's zanpaktou and blasts him away and then snatches Ichigo out of the air who was trying to blindside him again. Ichigo is missing an arm.

Yhwach is then all "Aizen tried to trick me Ichigo. But actually, in that last sequence, Aizen made it seem like you and Renji were each other to throw me off and give you an opportunity to hit me but my awesome future vision means I can see through all of that illusion nonsense hahaha,"

It then turns out that the Ichigo he is holding is Aizen who is all like "Lol, gotcha bitch, my illusions are too good,"

So the illusions worked on him for sure.