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  1. #211
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    Quote Originally Posted by DrNewGod View Post
    This is a really simple question, with really complex context.

    Yes. Now. Batman is more popular.

    In part, that's because Superman was pushed beyond relatability. Conceptually, any of us who are angry enough could be Batman (if we're geniuses whose joints will stand up to the workouts).

    To be Superman, you have to be royalty. Most of us hate royalty.

    Wait. You have to be royalty to be Batman too.?.

    What were we arguing about?
    This really. Heroes today have to be like the fans desires and the fans expectations of fun and excitment in order to be iconic beloved. If you are deadpool in flawed yet fun edginess and as powerful as superman with the capcity to do anything and break all rules, your a star beyond measure.
    Last edited by SpideyCeo; 06-08-2020 at 12:44 AM.

  2. #212
    Black Belt in Bad Ideas Robanker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vampire Savior View Post
    I read your post over again, and, like the first time, I understand your point. But if you want me to point it out specifically to you, it's a good idea to stay away from blackface caricatures, because many people find them offensive. There are plenty of ways to draw black characters in a cartoony fashion that aren't specifically meant to make fun of how black people look.

    Furthermore, it's not a good idea to draw black people totally exaggerated and ridiculous looking when the white people around them are not drawn in that style. That's a pretty weird thing to do.

    Yeah, much as I love The Spirit, Ebony White is a sore thumb that's hard to get around. No forgiving the way he was portrayed.

    Darwyn Cooke had the right idea. He wrote him as a cool, competent kid who helped Denny and was drawn as idealized as anyone else.

    Ebony2.jpg

    I will say that it did feel like Clark was on an upswing. His last animated feature was Unbound in 2013 until the new Death of Superman animated movie (2018) which had the highest sales they've seen since Killing Joke and overall doubled the usual turnout. Reign was about average in sales, but since DoS in 2018, we've had Reign, Red Son and now Man of Tomorrow. He's getting a TV show on the CW. In fact, if we ignore Killing Joke, DoS was the first animated movie of theirs to break 6 million since Son of Batman in 2014. Hush grossed just under 4 million, and that's the first time they adapted Hush as opposed to Death of Superman which would be the third time it's been adapted in animation and fourth overall. For good or ill, it does feel like DC/WB are trying to raise his profile and people are responding.

    Not more than Batman's, mind, but it is nice to see Clark getting love again.

  3. #213
    Astonishing Member Electricmastro's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robanker View Post
    Yeah, much as I love The Spirit, Ebony White is a sore thumb that's hard to get around. No forgiving the way he was portrayed.

    Darwyn Cooke had the right idea. He wrote him as a cool, competent kid who helped Denny and was drawn as idealized as anyone else.

    Ebony2.jpg
    And wasn’t attempting to forgive it either in case you were talking about me. What VS was getting was pretty much more or less in line with The Simpsons, which exaggerates everyone in a way that it equally applies to everyone while still writing and showing them as human. Eisner wrote Ebony’s personality as human too, and was consistently respected by Denny, though indeed the way Ebony is drawn can easily make any writing fall apart.

    Quote Originally Posted by SpideyCeo View Post
    This really. Heroes today have to be like the fans desires and the fans expectations of fun and excitment in order to be iconic beloved. If you are deadpool in flawed yet fun edginess and as powerful as superman with the capcity to do anything and break all rules, your a star beyond measure.
    Yeah, fan expectation has quite a bit to do with it too I suppose.
    Last edited by Electricmastro; 06-08-2020 at 01:09 AM.

  4. #214
    Black Belt in Bad Ideas Robanker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Electricmastro View Post
    And wasn’t attempting to forgive it either in case you were talking about me. What VS was getting was pretty much more or less in line with The Simpsons, which exaggerates everyone in a way that it equally applies to everyone while still writing and showing them as human. Eisner wrote Ebony’s personality as human too, and was consistently respected by Denny, though indeed the way Ebony is drawn can easily make any writing fall apart.



    Yeah, fan expectation has quite a bit to do with it too I suppose.
    Oh no, I wasn't pointing that at anyone, but I'll always take a minute to show Cooke's Spirit some love. It was something special. And yes, Eisner wrote Ebony far better than his art would imply, and he himself has noted it was deliberate since there was pressure to draw him that way in some fashion, ergo he wrote him better in an attempt to compensate. Doesn't change the end result is hard to read. Cooke's Ebony felt like the completed version of the character, divorced of his problematic elements.

  5. #215
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    Bump to bring that batman is still getting more focus how successful he is as a man who wins the hearts of his allies and is praised for it more than supes. It's this kind of bias towards batman that makes it hard for superman to shine as he once did.

  6. #216
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    Quote Originally Posted by SpideyCeo View Post
    Bump to bring that batman is still getting more focus how successful he is as a man who wins the hearts of his allies and is praised for it more than supes. It's this kind of bias towards batman that makes it hard for superman to shine as he once did.
    Comic Batman doesn't really win the hearts of his allies, he's more known for alienating them with his paranoia.

  7. #217
    Black Belt in Bad Ideas Robanker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by king81992 View Post
    Comic Batman doesn't really win the hearts of his allies, he's more known for alienating them with his paranoia.
    Yeah, he wins the hearts of writers, but in the books he somehow gets friends despite spending most of his free time thinking about how to kill them. It makes no real sense. He should be the friend nobody likes, really.

  8. #218
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robanker View Post
    Yeah, he wins the hearts of writers, but in the books he somehow gets friends despite spending most of his free time thinking about how to kill them. It makes no real sense. He should be the friend nobody likes, really.
    It's the benefit of being a writers pet character, you get to be seen as a 'hero' and keep your friends despite being an ******* to everyone.

  9. #219
    Black Belt in Bad Ideas Robanker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by king81992 View Post
    It's the benefit of being a writers pet character, you get to be seen as a 'hero' and keep your friends despite being an ******* to everyone.
    I mean he presumably has a plan to take down a lot of heroes' children too but yeah, they're all down with Bruce because I guess he pays their bills.

    What it comes down to is Batman sells and writers Stan him harder.

    There's a little bit of "but Superman is an alien/god/I can't get over where he comes from" that makes people prefer Bruce despite him being equally farcical.

  10. #220
    Ultimate Member Sacred Knight's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SpideyCeo View Post
    Bump to bring that batman is still getting more focus how successful he is as a man who wins the hearts of his allies and is praised for it more than supes. It's this kind of bias towards batman that makes it hard for superman to shine as he once did.
    Superman's such an icon that it doesn't hurt him as much as it does other characters, but it does hurt him some all the same. But the singular focus on Batman above anything else is a DC-wide problem, not just something that makes Superman look bad. Their favor and reliance on the character is growing, something I didn't think possible, and its a very bad thing for their verse. Its all they seem to want to do with any vigor. Everything else is an extreme
    afterthought. Looking at the solicits these days and seeing the Bat content versus everything else is becoming a bad joke at this point. And its the same thing in other media. On the movie end frankly Wonder Woman finding Patty Jenkins and having her mythos well taken care of on that end I think was in a way more dumb luck than anything else.
    Last edited by Sacred Knight; 07-13-2020 at 09:48 PM.
    "They can be a great people Kal-El, they wish to be. They only lack the light to show the way. For this reason above all, their capacity for good, I have sent them you. My only son." - Jor-El

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