Page 5 of 15 FirstFirst 123456789 ... LastLast
Results 61 to 75 of 214
  1. #61
    Astonishing Member manwhohaseverything's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2017
    Posts
    4,428

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Vordan View Post
    Birthright by Mark Waid, Grant Morrison’s New 52 Action Comics run, Superman Red Son by Mark Millar, Superman & The Legion of Superheroes by Geoff Johns, and Superman Smashes the Klan by Gene Yang. If you’re a Batman fan maybe Scott Snyder’s Superman Unchained?

    That said I’m not going to pretend that everyone who doesn’t like Supes simply hasn’t read the right books. For some people nothing about him will ever appeal to them. If you’re someone who doesn’t have much interest in science fiction than that’s a big indicator that Superman isn’t for you. I myself have read lots of X-Men books but for the most part I find them boring and unappealing. Only Morrison, Whedon, and now Hickman have kept me interested in them, so I totally get that there’s some characters who will never click and I’m fine with that. But I have to say I find the “overpowered” reason to be really stupid. Nobody actually believes some random thug is going to kill Batman in his books, that flat out is never happening. Most of Batman’s Rogues can’t even beat him in a straight up fight. He lives in a mansion and fights in a city that looks like it was designed by Satan. If you can relate to Bruce I don’t see why Clark is too alien (heh).
    I agree, with this.for some people superman isn't for them, and that's fine. I would also recommend superman smashes the klan and superman up in the sky.One is targeted at kids, keep that in mind. If you really think, superman is for you. great! i would recommend early action comics and superman comics by seigel and shuster. Better yet, their daily newspaper strips about the man of action himself . If you cannot, just watch max fleischer cartoons.

    These three creators(max fleischer, siegel and shuster) will tell you The answer to two fundamental questions about Superman.

    What is superman or a superhero in general (since superman is the prototype)?
    What is superman's conflict?
    Morrison and moore will tell you the answer to another question.
    What is superman's story about?

    Also, jimmy has various wierd transformations through out the silverage. It's wierd silverage storytelling trivia.Hope you find something entertaining.
    Last edited by manwhohaseverything; 04-18-2020 at 10:21 AM.

  2. #62
    Astonishing Member Vordan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2018
    Posts
    4,693

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by batnbreakfast View Post
    Superman is ill-defined, boring and has had an unsuccessful adaption
    Boring is subjective, like I said I don’t really find the X-Men all that interesting myself, I find most Marvel characters extremely boring, so won’t dispute your opinion. The DCEU adaption clearly failed but he’s had successful adaptions elsewhere in cartoons and TV shows. The Donner films were very successful adaptions for their time. But “ill-defined”? What does that even mean? He’s had a well defined core for decades: He’s a hero because of his upbringing by the Kents. He cares deeply for other people, and believes that ultimately the best parts of humanity are stronger than the worst parts. He loves Lois Lane. He’s ultimately an optimist and an idealist. His “deadly sin” is Wrath, and it tends to flare up when his faith in other people’s ability to change for the better gets proven wrong or when the strong crush the weak.
    Quote Originally Posted by batnbreakfast View Post
    He's like Steve Rogers... only that Steve is interesting

    I haven't come across someone outside of CBR who is looking forward to a Superman movie
    No offense but I highly doubt that you would consider Rogers interesting were it not for the MCU. And if you don’t remember the hype around the time Man of Steel was announced, you were either living under a rock or hanging out with a very small social group. That third trailer got everyone talking.

  3. #63
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2014
    Posts
    51,484

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Holt View Post
    The issue with saying Superman can't be adapted well to film is that it ignores that pretty much every Superman movie after II has some sort of obvious flaw or reason why it didn't go over as well as the studio hoped. Even the tone and violence of Man of Steel, as extremely divisive as it ended up being, was a very clear response to all those criticisms people had about Superman Returns being boring as hell. The issue is not Superman himself, he just needs the right take and creative team behind him.
    And, of course, WB being willing to let people deliver their own take and vision...

  4. #64
    Astonishing Member stargazer01's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2017
    Location
    California
    Posts
    2,594

    Default

    For some of us in the world, Batman isn't our thing either. I respect him, but I don't like him enough and I don't understand why so many love him. My guy is and always has been Superman. I think he is the greatest superhero and one of the absolute best fictional creations. He is the best of us. I can watch a kids cartoon with him (as long as it's funny and not dumb), and I can watch a movie as serious as Red Son.

    Superman can be many things: a friend, a son, a liberator, a romantic charmer, a teen superhero, a role model, a great action hero, etc. It can be drama, adventure, Sci-Fi, comedy, romance, and more. I'm still not tired of him and I think there is still so much that can be explore in the movies like Brainiac, Mongul, Bizarro, Legion of Superheroes, and more.. WB are just dumb.

  5. #65
    Astonishing Member manwhohaseverything's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2017
    Posts
    4,428

    Default

    I would be lying, if i said i hated the pulp fiction billionaire vigilante detective that is bruce wayne.Then again, i have really keen interest in these old characters, including steve rogers. Batman tas was one of the things that brought my attention to superheroes. But, i guess i am more into a strongman from space defending the defenceless with a smile on his face. What can i say! I love a good stoic.

  6. #66
    Extraordinary Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Posts
    6,246

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by batnbreakfast View Post
    He's like Steve Rogers... only that Steve is interesting

    I haven't come across someone outside of CBR who is looking forward to a Superman movie
    Dude, before it came out, Man of Steel had everyone hyped. If you missed that, it was because you didn't want to see it. Superman is one of the most profitable media franchises of all time. And of course, he's interesting. Why do you think Marvel keeps trying to make Superman clones, from Sentry to Hyperion? Why is it his origins and backstory are one of the most referenced of any comic book character in everyday pop culture? He's one of those characters who, despite your personal opinion, you have to at least recognize has caught the public's imagination.

    Remember how everyone thought Wonder Woman was lame and then the Patti Jenkins movie came out and now people all of a sudden can't seem to get enough Wonder Woman and are thirsting for 1984 to come out? Yeah, it's kind of the same with Superman. Its been a few decades since the Donner movies were a big thing so people have forgotten how popular the character is capable of being. Pair that with the fact that recent cinematic outings have been lackluster, similar to the situation with the Fantastic Four and Captain America before the MCU, and you have a perception that the character has nothing to offer. But that's just the thing. It's a perception, not reality.

    As others have said, Superman-related media has continued to thrive in the form of cartoons and TV series. They're even now developing a Superman and Lois series for the CW. Furthermore, new stories that could absolutely be the basis of cinematic blockbusters have continued to be told in the comics. So, the character IMO seems poised for a cinematic comeback. They don't even need to ditch the DCEU to do it. WB just needs someone who understands the character to helm the next movie just like Richard Donner did and how Patti Jenkins understood Wonder Woman.
    Last edited by Green Goblin of Sector 2814; 04-18-2020 at 05:31 PM.

  7. #67
    Astonishing Member superduperman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2015
    Location
    Metropolis USA
    Posts
    4,620

    Default

    Batman is more interesting because DC made him more interesting. They bothered to invest more time and creators into him than they did Superman. To me, the best Batman stories are the ones where he isn't a Bat-God. Year One. Earth One. I like TAS well enough but I like it as a stand alone. Not part of a larger universe. With Superman all they seem able to come up with, or are willing to come up with, are alien-of-the-month menaces. They had more creativity in the GA. They made more of an effort to have him fight human menaces. Sometimes they were advanced technology menaces but they were still human. DC manages to woe Bendis over from Marvel and whats the first thing he comes up with? Some generic alien menace out of early nineties Image.
    Now listen to me, Clark! This great strength of yours--you've got to hide it from people or they'll be scared of you!

  8. #68
    Extraordinary Member SiegePerilous02's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Posts
    9,742

    Default

    I find modern Batman boring a lot of the time, so I'd say Superman isn't boring compared to him at least. Or some versions of Superman. There are other versions of Superman I find boring compared to some versions of Batman.

    When they are both written the way I like them, I love them both pretty much equally. Sort of unrelated, but I've never liked the whole "you're either a Batman guy or a Superman guy" thing that pops up in some debates. They are both great and both let down by their material a lot of the time. Superman is just let down far more regularly. Although YMMV, but even the well received Batman material is still letting him down in some of our views.

    Quote Originally Posted by Green Goblin of Sector 2814 View Post
    Dude, before it came out, Man of Steel had everyone hyped. If you missed that, it was because you didn't want to see it. Superman is one of the most profitable media franchises of all time. And of course, he's interesting. Why do you think Marvel keeps trying to make Superman clones, from Sentry to Hyperion? Why is it his origins and backstory are one of the most referenced of any comic book character in everyday pop culture? He's one of those characters who, despite your personal opinion, you have to at least recognize has caught the public's imagination.
    Yeah, the hype for MOS pre-release (and it still doing very well despite its divisive reputation) and the insane hype for BvS before it release indicate that there is still a desire among the general populace to get a good modern Superman movie. Like the MCU had to build up a brand to establish hype for their characters so now they can slap their brand on any character's movie and people will turn up for it. Superman can still build hype just by himself, as long as the final films land (which we know they didn't in this case, at least post-MOS). Similarly, a lot of the interest in BvS pre-release was the chance to finally see Wonder Woman, and she was building that interest without even the prior films and wider media presence of Superman and Batman.
    Last edited by SiegePerilous02; 04-18-2020 at 03:53 PM.

  9. #69
    Astonishing Member batnbreakfast's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Posts
    3,623

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by superduperman View Post
    Batman is more interesting because DC made him more interesting. They bothered to invest more time and creators into him than they did Superman. To me, the best Batman stories are the ones where he isn't a Bat-God. Year One. Earth One. I like TAS well enough but I like it as a stand alone. Not part of a larger universe. With Superman all they seem able to come up with, or are willing to come up with, are alien-of-the-month menaces. They had more creativity in the GA. They made more of an effort to have him fight human menaces. Sometimes they were advanced technology menaces but they were still human. DC manages to woe Bendis over from Marvel and whats the first thing he comes up with? Some generic alien menace out of early nineties Image.
    Yes to all of that. Its not that I am happy with Bats. He had his highs and for that I count myself lucky

  10. #70
    Astonishing Member Soubhagya's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2017
    Posts
    3,491

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by batnbreakfast View Post
    To make Superman interesting (for me he's not because he's... overpowered) WB should make Clark Kent interesting. There's a journalist/writer/detective who can also do... lots of stuff and grew up really down to earth/grounded. Lois is sexy and strong, Jimmy is funny and human, Lex is Trump/WASP/elite, Intergang, Metallo, there you go
    If you haven't read Morrison's Action Comics run in New 52, i would recommend that in a heartbeat. Good thing about Superman is that there are different takes available on the character in the comics. Just like one may like Affleck's Batman and dislke Adam West. Someone would prefer Keaton's Batman.

    Batman is more consistent in other media. I am usually dissapointed in Superman adaptations in other media. But in comics there is a lot of variety and i enjoy most takes. If nothing else, get 'World Against Superman' TPB. It collects the first arc in the run and is most accessible. From your words i say this is the best recommendation.

  11. #71
    Astonishing Member batnbreakfast's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Posts
    3,623

    Default

    EDIT: wrong thread

  12. #72
    Father Son Kamehameha < Kuwagaton's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Posts
    7,796

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by SiegePerilous02 View Post
    I find modern Batman boring a lot of the time, so I'd say Superman isn't boring compared to him at least. Or some versions of Superman. There are other versions of Superman I find boring compared to some versions of Batman.

    When they are both written the way I like them, I love them both pretty much equally. Sort of unrelated, but I've never liked the whole "you're either a Batman guy or a Superman guy" thing that pops up in some debates. They are both great and both let down by their material a lot of the time.
    Agreed. I like Superman a lot more, but that's just comparing my favorite character to a character I like a whole lot. For the last year it's actually been swinging in favor of Bats because I've read so much Superman already. The Legends/Tales hardcovers and post Crisis trades have been fantastic.
    Welcome or welcome back! Please check out the updated
    CBR Community STANDARDS & RULES

  13. #73
    Fantastic Member Dr. Ellingham's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2015
    Location
    Port Wenn
    Posts
    386

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by superduperman View Post
    Batman is more interesting because DC made him more interesting.
    I disagree. Some characters, stories and settings are more conducive to good storytelling.

    Batman is the strongest story engine in the superhero genre. Which is why he has more high-quality stories than any DC character. And not just right now - you can go back 50 years and find good storytelling - O'Neil/Adams, Englehart/Rogers, etc. The dialogue might be outdated / creaky from a craft standpoint, but the stories themselves hold up. So much so you can update them and they still work - as WB did with Batman 89, TAS, the Batman films by Nolan, etc. Whereas O'Neil's Green Lantern, his Superman, his JLA? Not as great, doesn't hold up nearly as well.

    Superman? How far back can you go to find a Superman story that holds up today- that creators still revere, that we can point to as inspiration for a good adaptation? The most beloved is the Christopher Reeve film, which borrows the broad strokes from Siegel and Shuster, and invents the rest. And that was 40 years ago.

    This is also why there are so few good Superman runs. He's hard to write, he demands both scale and heart, and for these and many other reasons few creators are up to the challenge. So stand-alone stories are the most revered - Alan Moore, All-Star Superman, Red Son, etc. In fact, on the animated All-Star DVD Bruce Timm told Grant Morrison he wished that story had existed before they made the 90s cartoon, because that was the story that really allowed Timm to "get" Superman. And Timm's a highly gifted storyteller and adapter of material, as well. Superman simply demands the very best of anyone who would dare write him.

  14. #74
    Fantastic Member Dr. Ellingham's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2015
    Location
    Port Wenn
    Posts
    386

    Default

    And as others have pointed out, Batman's been #1 since 1989. Superman gets the award for biggest overall fictional character of the 20th century, though.

    Superman's recognizability is more pronounced outside the US. I went to Europe for the first time last year. My wife and I stayed in a tiny hotel outside the city, as tourists do. Another tourist family from the middle east stayed at our hotel, and their 4-5 year old son ran around with a Superman backpack. It was the only superhero reference I saw there.

    And of course it was Superman; he is still a symbol all around the globe, in a way that no other cape comic is. He's the very definition of superhero.

  15. #75
    Father Son Kamehameha < Kuwagaton's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Posts
    7,796

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Ellingham View Post

    you can go back 50 years and find good storytelling - O'Neil/Adams, Englehart/Rogers, etc. The dialogue might be outdated / creaky from a craft standpoint, but the stories themselves hold up. So much so you can update them and they still work - as WB did with Batman 89, TAS, the Batman films by Nolan, etc. Whereas O'Neil's Green Lantern, his Superman, his JLA? Not as great, doesn't hold up nearly as well.

    Superman? How far back can you go to find a Superman story that holds up today- that creators still revere, that we can point to as inspiration for a good adaptation? The most beloved is the Christopher Reeve film, which borrows the broad strokes from Siegel and Shuster, and invents the rest. And that was 40 years ago.

    This is also why there are so few good Superman runs. He's hard to write, he demands both scale and heart, and for these and many other reasons few creators are up to the challenge. So stand-alone stories are the most revered - Alan Moore, All-Star Superman, Red Son, etc. In fact, on the animated All-Star DVD Bruce Timm told Grant Morrison he wished that story had existed before they made the 90s cartoon, because that was the story that really allowed Timm to "get" Superman. And Timm's a highly gifted storyteller and adapter of material, as well. Superman simply demands the very best of anyone who would dare write him.
    I'd find it weird if a comic creator couldn't understand what made Siegel, Woolfolk, Finger, Hamilton, Boring, and Swan so good just to name a few. Creator wise it's worth noting that Stan and Jack were peers to many of these guys and didn't take the lead for years. Creation wise Superman caught on in a huge way, and as quick as people are to point to him being first it's not like he wasn't swamped with competition within the earliest years.

    I agree with how easy it is to appreciate what Batman brought to the table in the 70s and 80s. A lot of that is exactly the foundation of what stories are like now. But my hope is that people come to realize in larger numbers that Superman stories from the same eras and even earlier are largely still ahead of their time. Superman #243, 295, 372, 400, 416, the Second Coming of Superman, Sword of Superman, Time and Again, Wolfman's Brainiac saga, I can really go on with fascinating stories lost to time and no reprints vs Batman. It's kinda depressing.
    Welcome or welcome back! Please check out the updated
    CBR Community STANDARDS & RULES

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •