Villains - redeemable and not (end game)

[Ascended]

I liked how Orlando had Diana redeem Mayfly, but the problem you run into is that given Diana’s Rogues Gallery is already sparsely used, is redeeming her villains really a good idea for her long term success? I can’t say but I do think some villains should be redeemed but maybe we should restrict redemption to OCs.

The fact that Diana's rogues gallery is ignored is kind of a separate, but connected, problem. Just like her rotating supporting cast, constantly-changing setting, etc. To fix one, you have to fix them all and establish consistency.

If that inconsistency isn't a problem, then yes I think redeeming *some* villains is not only possible, but a good idea. Not the major, A-list foes who we'd consider Diana's classic/iconic rogues gallery (like Cheetah, Ares, Circe,) but someone less central in the bad guy list? Yeah, absolutely. If you want to show Diana's compassion, her successfully redeeming a villain is a great way to showcase it.

[Mel Dyer]

Cheetah is a blood-drinking ghoul, and Ares is a force of cosmic destruction. They are almost so unspeakably inhuman and irredeemable, ..you can't be mad at them. You may, as well, meet them at Starbucks.

[SiegePerilous02]

Putting aside the redemption angle for a moment (though not entirely- Paula comes up), the "Wonder Woman Historia" series of articles on Comic Book Herald had a part that breaks down her core group of villains and what each represents. It (and the other articles that delve into the Golden Age set ups, including her allies, and later the problematic Silver Age) make for an interesting take. This is pretty close to my ideal set of "core" villains for Diana the way we could similarly name a core group for Batman (which is pretty much everyone who made it to BTAS). I would add Cale, Circe, Rebirth Dr. Cyber, one of the Swans and Angle Man to the list.

https://www.comicbookherald.com/wond...-the-villains/

The break down for Cheetah is said to represent "predation," and while the author correctly points out that Priscilla is different to modern Barbara Ann, they have some core ideas that they share:

"Cheetah, iconic villain, member of The Legion Of Doom. Set to be in a movie and bigger than ever in the current comics, thanks to a Greg Rucka/Liam Sharp revamp. Her origins here are fairly different from what we now have and they are, very much, two different characters. The original Cheetah, Priscilla Rich, was a rich socialite who had a Jekyll and Hyde deal, as noted above. Fundamentally though, Cheetah is built on the idea of self-loathing, which is the one thing consistent among interpretations.

And from that self-loathing, that feeling small, that inferior sense of self in relation to other women blooms envy, which then turns into jealousy, which ultimately morphs into hate. And that’s Cheetah. She’s the idea of ‘Diana’, that name, taken to a dark extreme. Diana is the goddess of the moon, the goddess of the hunt, of course. But if Amazonian ‘hunts’ done by Diana are playful festive sports for fun, The Cheetah is something else. It’s taking that idea of the ‘hunt’ very seriously and treating all others as prey. It’s predatory, abusive behavior towards other women. It’s about a woman who tears down other women and specifically women of power, any who she feels are in any way ‘better’ than her or feels even remotely envious of. She’s every individual who has to make someone who feels good feel terrible, so she can feel superior.

While there’s an almost cat-burglar-esque vibe to Cheetah in this period, with that specific suit and all, she’s not actually stealing the way Catwoman or Black Cat do. She’s doing everything possible to just ruin or hurt someone she has a petty dislike or grudge towards. That’s all her goal is. That’s all she wants, nothing more. And that behavior, that impulse, that dark thought of wanting to hurt someone who’s doing well, because you feel inferior, that must be fought at ever turn. And so Wonder Woman faces it and does her best to help Priscilla be better, even if she fails consistently. It’s just who Diana is, even in the face of what The Cheetah is."

[Ascended]

So Cheetah's main drive is that she's a "mean girl."

Eh, other villains have had less solid motivations I guess......

[Gaius]

A timely observation, Gaius.

I'm bored by Diana, Donna, Cassie and the Amazons. As much as a hot rogues gallery, I think the WW comic needs a Wonder Family that is diverse in powers/abilities, gender (especially), as well as background. Would that include Cheetah? Hercules? Giganta? I would rather see reformed super-villains join the family, than heroes, borrowed from other comics; wouldn't you?

Well, like others have said Cheetah is one of WW's few iconic villains so removing her from the table takes away too much from her rogues gallery roster. I'd be fine if Giganta became a supporting character/redeemed villain, that's already been something of a trend for her in recent years and she hasn't had much in the way of character stuff as a villain (at least that I'm aware of) so I don't think we'd lose much by not keeping her as one.

[Alphaxman]

I don't know what would motivate Cheetah but I wish they could somehow merge her three more famous forms. Depending on how much she is under the influence of Urzkartaga, she could be the mild mannered archaeologist (Barbara) friends with Diana [no godly influence]; if stressed or depressed the influence grows where she becomes the more cunning and dangerous femme fatale with mid-grade cat powers, like a slight strength increase, claws, and super reflexes (looking like her post crisis version) *this could explain how someone like Batman could beat her in a fight*; and then in her final (current) form when her rage is at it height, she would be her most powerful: faster than Diana, claws that could scratch Superman, can leap 50 ft in a single bound, about as strong as Donna but not Diana, and have a Wolverine level healing factor.

But this is only if I could trust writers to handle it consistently. I could see them having Batman jump kicker her in her final form, knocking her out. When in reality, she would rip his head off before he could reach for his utility belt. Only Wonder Woman, Superman (girl), Martian Manhunter, or Shazam could take her on in her fully feral form.

[Vordan]

Well, like others have said Cheetah is one of few WW's few iconic villains so removing her from the table takes away too much her rogues gallery roster. I'd be fine if Giganta became a supporting character/redeemed villain, that's already been something of a trend for her in recent years and she hasn't had much in the way of character stuff as a villain (at least that I'm aware of) so I don't think we'd lose much by not keeping her as one.

Yeah Giganta seems like a good choice for redemption, can’t really remember many stories with her as a villain that were good.

[SiegePerilous02]

So Cheetah's main drive is that she's a "mean girl."

Eh, other villains have had less solid motivations I guess......

At least Priscilla is a heightened comic book-y version of such. And isn't that what comics are all about?

She'd get along with Lex, whose feud started by being pissy about his hair loss

[marhawkman]

Yeah Giganta seems like a good choice for redemption, can’t really remember many stories with her as a villain that were good.

well she's one of those characters who has some good motives, but ended up becoming a villain in part because she failed when she tried to do things the "good" way and decided to resort to more villainous methods.

[Ascended]

Yeah Giganta seems like a good choice for redemption, can’t really remember many stories with her as a villain that were good.

That's my thought. Giganta is a well recognized Diana villain, but hasn't really offered a lot as a villain in....decades? Diana redeeming her would be a big notch on her belt due to Doris' stature as a semi-major villain (pun intended), but she's not so big the franchise can't handle losing her as a rogue.

At least Priscilla is a heightened comic book-y version of such. And isn't that what comics are all about?

She'd get along with Lex, whose feud started by being pissy about his hair loss

Hey, it works for me. Cheetah as the ultimate mean girl seems as good a way to go with her as any.

[Psy-lock]

Silver Swan - she's been redeemed so many times she might as well become a hero (the Valerie Beaudry version almost became one for a hot minute). Vanessa is a classic supporting WW character but kinda useless as a civilian. Keeping her around as a redeemed villain who's trying to atone for the past sins is a good way to make her relevant again.

Giganta - she's an iconic character but almost completely irrelevant as a villain. I'd make her an anti-hero and have her date the Atom again. Maybe put her into Suicide Squad. But she should still be acknowledged as a WW character first and foremost and make regular appearances in her books, sometimes as a foe, sometimes as an ally.

Angle Man - Phil Jiminez' version (my favourite one) wasn't much of a villain to begin with and it's hard to buy that a thief would be on Diana's radar. So I'd fully redeem him and maybe make him a love interest for Donna Troy. And his daughter Anglette can take over as the more villainous counterpart to her father.

Paula - the original version was the first major WW villain to be redeemed, so it's only fitting that the current one is redeemed as well.

[Mel Dyer]

Who is the jewel in the crown that WW's rogues gallery can't afford to lose? Honestly, I don't see it.

[Nyssane]

I don't think Giganta can ever truly be 100% redeemed. She's too ingrained as a villain in DC Comics. They need their giant woman in the villain group splash pages.

And honestly, I don't think any of the classic Villainy Inc. villains should be redeemable. That was a huge point of their characters in the Golden Age.

[marhawkman]

Who is the jewel in the crown that WW's rogues gallery can't afford to lose? Honestly, I don't see it.

Ares. Powerful, flashy, and someone who's ideologically opposed.

[Agent Z]

Ares can easily be replaced with Zeus.