Dan Didio vs. The Titans

[CTTT]

Ok, so, thank God this guy is gone as publisher. It is amazing he really lasted so long at DC. He deserved all the vitriol he got. But I read an a recent article where Didio said that you have to have shakeups/events to basically keep readers from being bored. Ok, so like Marvel basically. Then he goes on to say that he wanted and I'm paraphrasing here, that he wanted to keep the characters lives progressing forward.

So, lets see:

Wally West- character assassination and burial from 2011-2016 replaced by Wallace West aka "black Wally". Then portrayed as a murderer fleeing the crime in Heroes in Crisis. At the same time attempting to split the Barry and Wally fanbase.

Garth- Drowned Earth in Aquaman. Not seen or heard from since. I guess he drowned? Jackson has been in the Aquaman books recently.

Roy Harper- killed in Heroes in Crisis.

Nightwing- Shot in the head, comes back with amnesia and shaved head and really ugly costume or street costume and calls himself "Ric" Grayson distancing himself from Bruce and family. And has his own team of inferior Nightwings.

Titans rebirth book with grown up sidekicks mentioned above- cancelled after I think 40 issues?

To be fair Wallace and Jackson were able to rebound from their awkward intros and become their own character and voice. But...as mentioned above how do these things with Wally Garth, etc progress their characters forward, as Didio says exactly?

Bottom line. Never thought these characters made Arthur Bruce and Barry look "old". It made me have further admiration for the characters as mentors and enhanced their coolness factor with me. Hope the Titans come back strong.

[caj]

And not just that generation of Teen Titans but also Tim, Cassie, Connor, and Bart too.

[Will Evans]

Going all the way back, they had Garth’s wife (Dolphin) and son killed off by the Spectre in Infinite Crisis. Then Garth himself died in Blackest Night and didn’t return at the conclusion. Roy’s daughter Lian was killed and then wiped from existence.

[Vampire Savior]

Ok, so, thank God this guy is gone as publisher. It is amazing he really lasted so long at DC. He deserved all the vitriol he got. But I read an a recent article where Didio said that you have to have shakeups/events to basically keep readers from being bored.

Only if you condition them to be that way, which he did. Over the course of 16 years or whatever it was, he made it so only "events" mattered, thus lessening the importance of the characters' self contained books and stories, and thus the characters' development, in preference to the always confusing development of the shared continuity of the DC Universe. DiDio was really terrible, I agree. I just don't see eye to eye with his philosophy on comics. And yes, there are some characters and IPs he just didn't get at all. He severely dropped the ball on the Titans and Superman, two really important DC franchises.

[CTTT]

Yeah breaking up the Superman family of Clark Lois and Jon also was a grievance. There's story to mine with the 10 year gap from Jon's birth to age 10 that could have been good. Jon got SORA'S because both Didio wanted to break up the happy family and because Bendis only wants to write for adults or teenagers, which is a major weakness for him as a writer that he couldn't or didn't want to write for 10 year old Jon. Yeah Didio's scorched earth policy stink is going to be here for bit. Hopefully the seeds can be planted and grown so the Titans flourish again.

[Dr. Ellingham]

Ok, so, thank God this guy is gone as publisher. It is amazing he really lasted so long at DC. He deserved all the vitriol he got.

Well, no. By most accounts Dan Didio is a decent guy - for an executive type anyway.

There's a few thousand people with their noses bent out of shape because his storytelling strategies hurt their favorite fictional characters. Online fandom called him names, called for him to be fired, and generally acted like the rear end of a horse for over a decade.

I stopped reading comics 10 years ago, in part because his basic publishing philosophy was modeled on 1970s Marvel, amped up with constant events and deaths. That doesn't appeal to me. But obviously it worked - WB kept him running the joint through multiple changes in executive leadership, for 17 years. In executive/corporate roles few people last more than 7 years, so the length of his tenure is actually really impressive.

Not liking what he did to fictional characters is a legitimate critique. I share it. But I didn't (don't) register hate or vitriol over fictional characters. I recognize this is just entertainment we're talking about. So that sort of behavior is not warranted. Like - at all.

[Doctor Know]

Oh that's nothing. How the TT were treated before New 52 was the worst.

After Graduation day, the writers and editors (Johns and Didio) overindulged in the very thing the said they wanted to avoid at the outset of volume 3 TT. Titan deaths.



Donna - Graduation Day
Lilith - Graduation Day
Indigo - Outsiders
Pantha - Infinite Crisis
Bushido - Infinite Crisis
Kid Wildebeest - Infinite Crisis
Connor - Infinite Crisis
Bart - One Year Later/Full Throttle
Osiris - 52
Kid Frankenstein - World War III
Terra II - World War III
Bombshell - Titans East
Duela Dent - Countdown to Final Crisis
Powerboy - Titans vol 2
Molecule - Terror Titans
Kid Devil - Child's Play
Aqualad/Tempest - Blackest Night
Hawk/Holly - Blackest Night
Damage - Blackest Night

You could literally rename this era

[CTTT]

[QUOTE=Dr. Ellingham;4940519]Well, no. By most accounts Dan Didio is a decent guy - for an executive type anyway.

There's a few thousand people with their noses bent out of shape because his storytelling strategies hurt their favorite fictional characters. Online fandom called him names, called for him to be fired, and generally acted like the rear end of a horse for over a decade.

I stopped reading comics 10 years ago, in part because his basic publishing philosophy was modeled on 1970s Marvel, amped up with constant events and deaths. That doesn't appeal to me. But obviously it worked - WB kept him running the joint through multiple changes in executive leadership, for 17 years. In executive/corporate roles few people last more than 7 years, so the length of his tenure is actually really impressive.

Not liking what he did to fictional characters is a legitimate critique. I share it. But I didn't (don't) register hate or vitriol over fictional characters. I recognize this is just entertainment we're talking about. So that sort of behavior is not warranted. Like - at all.

I understand but these aren't just fictional characters. These are beloved characters with 80+ years of history and they should be treated rightly. It's not like writing a novel where the author has the choice where he wants to take his characters.

[king81992]

Oh that's nothing. How the TT were treated before New 52 was the worst.

After Graduation day, the writers and editors (Johns and Didio) overindulged in the very thing the said they wanted to avoid at the outset of volume 3 TT. Titan deaths.



Donna - Graduation Day
Lilith - Graduation Day
Indigo - Outsiders
Pantha - Infinite Crisis
Bushido - Infinite Crisis
Kid Wildebeest - Infinite Crisis
Connor - Infinite Crisis
Bart - One Year Later/Full Throttle
Osiris - 52
Kid Frankenstein - World War III
Terra II - World War III
Bombshell - Titans East
Duela Dent - Countdown to Final Crisis
Powerboy - Titans vol 2
Molecule - Terror Titans
Kid Devil - Child's Play
Aqualad/Tempest - Blackest Night
Hawk/Holly - Blackest Night
Damage - Blackest Night

You could literally rename this era

Johns gets a free pass for all of the questionable decisions he made with the Titans franchise for some reason.

[SiegePerilous02]

I understand but these aren't just fictional characters. These are beloved characters with 80+ years of history and they should be treated rightly. It's not like writing a novel where the author has the choice where he wants to take his characters.

That is exactly all that they are.

They can still be beloved, but some of the vitriol spewed at real flesh and blood people does cross lines. Our identities as people should also not be defined by fictional characters to the point where we're calling for some dude's head for producing imaginary stories we do not like.

And yes, I realize a bit of the hypocrisy of that last statement as I post a comment on a comic book forum

[Ascended]

I'm as critical of Didio's business choices as anyone, but yeah, he's just a guy (and a nice one, from everything I've ever heard or seen of the man) trying to do a job that is alchemy and not science, in a industry that is dying no matter what anyone does about it, with fans who throw a f*cking tantrum if a single panel isn't to their liking (and that includes me sometimes too). It's not a position I envy being in.

He deserves criticism for many of his choices. My gods but he does. But a lot of the hate he gets is not deserved. And he rarely gets credit for the stuff he did right, too.

I mean, I'm still angry about the Nightwing thing. No one has yet provided reasoning for that mess that actually fits any business theory I know. And I don't condone, on any level, letting personal bias influence business. And the less said about Superman under his watch, the better. Dude really did not understand why Superman is, was, and will always be the GOAT. But other than a handful of examples like that, Didio's no villain. He wasn't out to get us and sh*t on our childhoods. He was a businessman trying to make a broken industry function, with a parent company that did not give a damn about comics on any level beyond their value as potential movie storyboards.

I'm not sad he's gone, because he tried to do what he could for comics and it wasn't enough (I don't think anything is) and I didn't agree with what he did to my favorite two characters (Clark and Dick, obvs) but there's a big difference between taking issue with his business choices and attacking the guy on personal grounds.

[Lonewolf36]

Of this list

Donna - Graduation Day - Revived
Lilith - Graduation Day - Stayed dead
Indigo - Outsiders - Revived but was never a Titan
Pantha - Infinite Crisis - Stayed dead
Bushido - Infinite Crisis - Stayed dead
Kid Wildebeest - Infinite Crisis - Stayed dead
Connor - Infinite Crisis - Revived
Bart - One Year Later/Full Throttle - Revived
Osiris - 52 - Revived
Kid Frankenstein - World War III - Revived
Terra II - World War III - Stayed dead
Bombshell - Titans East - Revived
Duela Dent - Countdown to Final Crisis - Stayed dead
Powerboy - Titans vol 2 - Stayed dead
Molecule - Terror Titans - Stayed dead
Kid Devil - Child's Play - Stayed dead
Aqualad/Tempest - Blackest Night - Stayed dead
Hawk/Holly - Blackest Night - Stayed dead
Damage - Blackest Night - Stayed dead

And you can add
Anima - Stayed dead
Marvin - Stayed dead
Wendy - Crippled for life
Elongated Kid - Stayed dead but was never a Titan

[titanfan]

New 52 -- Specifically mentions that he wants to bring every hero and every franchise back to their most iconic version. Babs if back as Batgirl, Barry is the Flash and so forth.

Somehow the most iconic/popular Titans were excluded from the list and we weren't even sure they existed.

[Godlike13]

See the worse thing to happen to Dick wasn't being shot in the head, it was putting the likes of Lobdell and Jurgans on his book and letting them do what they do for 2 years now.

[Dr. Ellingham]

I understand but these aren't just fictional characters. These are beloved characters with 80+ years of history and they should be treated rightly. It's not like writing a novel where the author has the choice where he wants to take his characters.

Yes, it is exactly like that. AT&T/WB/DC own all the toys in the DC Universe, and can do whatever they want with them.

A fictional character being around 50 years, 100 years or even 1000 years - or being beloved by "fans" - doesn't change any of that.