Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 109

Hybrid View

Previous Post Previous Post   Next Post Next Post
  1. #1
    Fantastic Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2018
    Posts
    367

    Default Dan Didio vs. The Titans

    Ok, so, thank God this guy is gone as publisher. It is amazing he really lasted so long at DC. He deserved all the vitriol he got. But I read an a recent article where Didio said that you have to have shakeups/events to basically keep readers from being bored. Ok, so like Marvel basically. Then he goes on to say that he wanted and I'm paraphrasing here, that he wanted to keep the characters lives progressing forward.

    So, lets see:

    Wally West- character assassination and burial from 2011-2016 replaced by Wallace West aka "black Wally". Then portrayed as a murderer fleeing the crime in Heroes in Crisis. At the same time attempting to split the Barry and Wally fanbase.

    Garth- Drowned Earth in Aquaman. Not seen or heard from since. I guess he drowned? Jackson has been in the Aquaman books recently.

    Roy Harper- killed in Heroes in Crisis.

    Nightwing- Shot in the head, comes back with amnesia and shaved head and really ugly costume or street costume and calls himself "Ric" Grayson distancing himself from Bruce and family. And has his own team of inferior Nightwings.

    Titans rebirth book with grown up sidekicks mentioned above- cancelled after I think 40 issues?

    To be fair Wallace and Jackson were able to rebound from their awkward intros and become their own character and voice. But...as mentioned above how do these things with Wally Garth, etc progress their characters forward, as Didio says exactly?

    Bottom line. Never thought these characters made Arthur Bruce and Barry look "old". It made me have further admiration for the characters as mentors and enhanced their coolness factor with me. Hope the Titans come back strong.

  2. #2
    Mighty Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2018
    Posts
    1,962

    Default

    And not just that generation of Teen Titans but also Tim, Cassie, Connor, and Bart too.

  3. #3
    Astonishing Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2020
    Posts
    2,331

    Default

    Going all the way back, they had Garth’s wife (Dolphin) and son killed off by the Spectre in Infinite Crisis. Then Garth himself died in Blackest Night and didn’t return at the conclusion. Roy’s daughter Lian was killed and then wiped from existence.

  4. #4
    BANNED
    Join Date
    Dec 2018
    Posts
    1,287

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by CTTT View Post
    Ok, so, thank God this guy is gone as publisher. It is amazing he really lasted so long at DC. He deserved all the vitriol he got. But I read an a recent article where Didio said that you have to have shakeups/events to basically keep readers from being bored.
    Only if you condition them to be that way, which he did. Over the course of 16 years or whatever it was, he made it so only "events" mattered, thus lessening the importance of the characters' self contained books and stories, and thus the characters' development, in preference to the always confusing development of the shared continuity of the DC Universe. DiDio was really terrible, I agree. I just don't see eye to eye with his philosophy on comics. And yes, there are some characters and IPs he just didn't get at all. He severely dropped the ball on the Titans and Superman, two really important DC franchises.

  5. #5
    Fantastic Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2018
    Posts
    367

    Default

    Yeah breaking up the Superman family of Clark Lois and Jon also was a grievance. There's story to mine with the 10 year gap from Jon's birth to age 10 that could have been good. Jon got SORA'S because both Didio wanted to break up the happy family and because Bendis only wants to write for adults or teenagers, which is a major weakness for him as a writer that he couldn't or didn't want to write for 10 year old Jon. Yeah Didio's scorched earth policy stink is going to be here for bit. Hopefully the seeds can be planted and grown so the Titans flourish again.

  6. #6
    Fantastic Member Dr. Ellingham's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2015
    Location
    Port Wenn
    Posts
    413

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by CTTT View Post
    Ok, so, thank God this guy is gone as publisher. It is amazing he really lasted so long at DC. He deserved all the vitriol he got.
    Well, no. By most accounts Dan Didio is a decent guy - for an executive type anyway.

    There's a few thousand people with their noses bent out of shape because his storytelling strategies hurt their favorite fictional characters. Online fandom called him names, called for him to be fired, and generally acted like the rear end of a horse for over a decade.

    I stopped reading comics 10 years ago, in part because his basic publishing philosophy was modeled on 1970s Marvel, amped up with constant events and deaths. That doesn't appeal to me. But obviously it worked - WB kept him running the joint through multiple changes in executive leadership, for 17 years. In executive/corporate roles few people last more than 7 years, so the length of his tenure is actually really impressive.

    Not liking what he did to fictional characters is a legitimate critique. I share it. But I didn't (don't) register hate or vitriol over fictional characters. I recognize this is just entertainment we're talking about. So that sort of behavior is not warranted. Like - at all.

  7. #7
    Astonishing Member Doctor Know's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Posts
    4,995

    Default

    Oh that's nothing. How the TT were treated before New 52 was the worst.

    After Graduation day, the writers and editors (Johns and Didio) overindulged in the very thing the said they wanted to avoid at the outset of volume 3 TT. Titan deaths.



    Donna - Graduation Day
    Lilith - Graduation Day
    Indigo - Outsiders
    Pantha - Infinite Crisis
    Bushido - Infinite Crisis
    Kid Wildebeest - Infinite Crisis
    Connor - Infinite Crisis
    Bart - One Year Later/Full Throttle
    Osiris - 52
    Kid Frankenstein - World War III
    Terra II - World War III
    Bombshell - Titans East
    Duela Dent - Countdown to Final Crisis
    Powerboy - Titans vol 2
    Molecule - Terror Titans
    Kid Devil - Child's Play
    Aqualad/Tempest - Blackest Night
    Hawk/Holly - Blackest Night
    Damage - Blackest Night

    You could literally rename this era

  8. #8
    Astonishing Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2017
    Location
    Brooklyn, New York
    Posts
    2,137

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Doctor Know View Post
    Oh that's nothing. How the TT were treated before New 52 was the worst.

    After Graduation day, the writers and editors (Johns and Didio) overindulged in the very thing the said they wanted to avoid at the outset of volume 3 TT. Titan deaths.



    Donna - Graduation Day
    Lilith - Graduation Day
    Indigo - Outsiders
    Pantha - Infinite Crisis
    Bushido - Infinite Crisis
    Kid Wildebeest - Infinite Crisis
    Connor - Infinite Crisis
    Bart - One Year Later/Full Throttle
    Osiris - 52
    Kid Frankenstein - World War III
    Terra II - World War III
    Bombshell - Titans East
    Duela Dent - Countdown to Final Crisis
    Powerboy - Titans vol 2
    Molecule - Terror Titans
    Kid Devil - Child's Play
    Aqualad/Tempest - Blackest Night
    Hawk/Holly - Blackest Night
    Damage - Blackest Night

    You could literally rename this era
    Johns gets a free pass for all of the questionable decisions he made with the Titans franchise for some reason.

  9. #9
    Astonishing Member Dataweaver's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2014
    Posts
    3,280

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by king81992 View Post
    Johns gets a free pass for all of the questionable decisions he made with the Titans franchise for some reason.
    Not a free pass; an earned pass. For all the bad things he's responsible for, he's also responsible for restoring many characters who had been trashed over the years back to at least some semblance of greatness. And even when he got things wrong, there was a sense that he was at least trying.

    For instance, his treatment of the Marvel Family near the end of his JSA run. Pretty bad, right? Except that if you take a look at the bigger picture, the Marvel Family had just been through a series of rather atrocious stories that had thoroughly trashed them; and the end of their story in JSA, while it stripped them of their powers, was clearly setting them up for a return to greatness. It's just that the New 52 came along and cut the return short. I suspect that many of Johns' intended plans for the return of the Marvel family found their way into the N52 version of Shazam.

    Johns' “earned pass” can be summed up in something he said once, explaining his approach to writing: paraphrased, “every character is someone's favorite, and should be treated accordingly.”
    Rogue wears rouge.
    Angel knows all the angles.

  10. #10
    Fantastic Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2018
    Posts
    367

    Default

    [QUOTE=Dr. Ellingham;4940519]Well, no. By most accounts Dan Didio is a decent guy - for an executive type anyway.

    There's a few thousand people with their noses bent out of shape because his storytelling strategies hurt their favorite fictional characters. Online fandom called him names, called for him to be fired, and generally acted like the rear end of a horse for over a decade.

    I stopped reading comics 10 years ago, in part because his basic publishing philosophy was modeled on 1970s Marvel, amped up with constant events and deaths. That doesn't appeal to me. But obviously it worked - WB kept him running the joint through multiple changes in executive leadership, for 17 years. In executive/corporate roles few people last more than 7 years, so the length of his tenure is actually really impressive.

    Not liking what he did to fictional characters is a legitimate critique. I share it. But I didn't (don't) register hate or vitriol over fictional characters. I recognize this is just entertainment we're talking about. So that sort of behavior is not warranted. Like - at all.

    I understand but these aren't just fictional characters. These are beloved characters with 80+ years of history and they should be treated rightly. It's not like writing a novel where the author has the choice where he wants to take his characters.

  11. #11
    Ultimate Member SiegePerilous02's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Posts
    10,465

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by CTTT View Post
    I understand but these aren't just fictional characters. These are beloved characters with 80+ years of history and they should be treated rightly. It's not like writing a novel where the author has the choice where he wants to take his characters.
    That is exactly all that they are.

    They can still be beloved, but some of the vitriol spewed at real flesh and blood people does cross lines. Our identities as people should also not be defined by fictional characters to the point where we're calling for some dude's head for producing imaginary stories we do not like.

    And yes, I realize a bit of the hypocrisy of that last statement as I post a comment on a comic book forum

  12. #12
    Ultimate Member Ascended's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Posts
    15,573

    Default

    I'm as critical of Didio's business choices as anyone, but yeah, he's just a guy (and a nice one, from everything I've ever heard or seen of the man) trying to do a job that is alchemy and not science, in a industry that is dying no matter what anyone does about it, with fans who throw a f*cking tantrum if a single panel isn't to their liking (and that includes me sometimes too). It's not a position I envy being in.

    He deserves criticism for many of his choices. My gods but he does. But a lot of the hate he gets is not deserved. And he rarely gets credit for the stuff he did right, too.

    I mean, I'm still angry about the Nightwing thing. No one has yet provided reasoning for that mess that actually fits any business theory I know. And I don't condone, on any level, letting personal bias influence business. And the less said about Superman under his watch, the better. Dude really did not understand why Superman is, was, and will always be the GOAT. But other than a handful of examples like that, Didio's no villain. He wasn't out to get us and sh*t on our childhoods. He was a businessman trying to make a broken industry function, with a parent company that did not give a damn about comics on any level beyond their value as potential movie storyboards.

    I'm not sad he's gone, because he tried to do what he could for comics and it wasn't enough (I don't think anything is) and I didn't agree with what he did to my favorite two characters (Clark and Dick, obvs) but there's a big difference between taking issue with his business choices and attacking the guy on personal grounds.
    "We all know the truth: more connects us than separates us. But in times of crisis the wise build bridges, while the foolish build barriers. We must find a way to look after one another, as if we were one single tribe."

    ~ Black Panther.

  13. #13
    Mighty Member Lonewolf36's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Posts
    1,550

    Default

    Of this list

    Donna - Graduation Day - Revived
    Lilith - Graduation Day - Stayed dead
    Indigo - Outsiders - Revived but was never a Titan
    Pantha - Infinite Crisis - Stayed dead
    Bushido - Infinite Crisis - Stayed dead
    Kid Wildebeest - Infinite Crisis - Stayed dead
    Connor - Infinite Crisis - Revived
    Bart - One Year Later/Full Throttle - Revived
    Osiris - 52 - Revived
    Kid Frankenstein - World War III - Revived
    Terra II - World War III - Stayed dead
    Bombshell - Titans East - Revived
    Duela Dent - Countdown to Final Crisis - Stayed dead
    Powerboy - Titans vol 2 - Stayed dead
    Molecule - Terror Titans - Stayed dead
    Kid Devil - Child's Play - Stayed dead
    Aqualad/Tempest - Blackest Night - Stayed dead
    Hawk/Holly - Blackest Night - Stayed dead
    Damage - Blackest Night - Stayed dead

    And you can add
    Anima - Stayed dead
    Marvin - Stayed dead
    Wendy - Crippled for life
    Elongated Kid - Stayed dead but was never a Titan
    Last edited by Lonewolf36; 04-27-2020 at 01:02 PM. Reason: Added Anima

  14. #14
    Fantastic Member Dr. Ellingham's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2015
    Location
    Port Wenn
    Posts
    413

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by cttt View Post
    I understand but these aren't just fictional characters. These are beloved characters with 80+ years of history and they should be treated rightly. It's not like writing a novel where the author has the choice where he wants to take his characters.
    Yes, it is exactly like that. AT&T/WB/DC own all the toys in the DC Universe, and can do whatever they want with them.

    A fictional character being around 50 years, 100 years or even 1000 years - or being beloved by "fans" - doesn't change any of that.

  15. #15
    Astonishing Member superduperman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2015
    Location
    Metropolis USA
    Posts
    4,830

    Default

    And if they mishandle those characters, then they fail financially. And no one gains from that. Especially not whoever owns the properties. I'm surprised that Didio stayed as long as he did. Maybe it was because nobody up top was paying much attention, IDK. I don't think the guy was evil or anything but it's obvious he wanted things no one else wanted. The more logical solution would have been to give him his own Ultimates style line to do with what he wants. Instead of using the mainstream universe. Not sure why they didn't just do that. Don't like the Titans? Don't have them in your universe. Same thing with legacy characters. There were solutions to this. They just didn't implement them. New 52 should have been an Ultimates type line to begin with instead of taking over the main books.
    WAKANDA FOREVER! Chadwick Boseman 1976-2020 BLM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •