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  1. #31
    Incredible Member The no face guy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rise View Post
    What I find ironic is that fans throw all kind of insults at publishers, writers, artists...etc on the internet (and sometimes even to their faces), but can't handle it when they get trolled back because "we pay you!!!". Just because you buy their products doesn't mean that they are your slaves who their concern should be only about pleasing you and they have no right to feel or say anything that might offend you.

    These products are made for entertainment, not medical products that concerns your health. Don't like them? Move on and find something else.
    I haven't thrown any insults to writers on the internet, but most companies respect their customer base, and if they do not, I move on to something else, namely their competition at Marvel comics. In the free market it's called buying power.

  2. #32
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    Didio is a marketing guy who seems to think there's no such thing as bad publicity, hence why he seems happy to 'take credit' for creating the backlash against the way Stephanie Brown was treated when she was killed off. I think he's a terrible writer and hate how he trolled fans so much and many of his creative decisions, but he may be a really nice guy in person. His skillset is simply on the marketing side of things, not the creative side.

  3. #33
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    I think the Titans fell afoul of Didio’s decision making process because they simply had the wrong variables to “survive” under his tenure.

    A lot of them are either legacy characters or graduated sidekicks, which makes them anathema to his desire of keeping the classic heroes young.

    They’re also high profile enough for him to see money in them... but strictly as assets, not as characters, so he didn’t really have a status quo he wanted them at, and instead just tried to shove them where he thought they would work best in a marketing scheme (thus the New 52 Teen Titans being made the first and only ones and being mostly removed from their mentor franchises).

    They also have a high enough profile that they made “statement” canon fodder for events.

    And he was constantly trying to perfect their marketing scheme while rarely bothering to ensure they kept quality writers on them.
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  4. #34
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    I mean when Tom King goes to a convention and pretty much has to defend the atrocity that is Heroes in Crisis and says that he felt he wrote a great story, you know there's a problem. I don't think King wanted or intended to throw Wally under the bus though, I'd love to see a director's cut of HIC without the editorial mandates. Shoot, CBR even wrote an article about how Wally could be redeemed from this. The stench was that foul. But it's no coincidence that Wally was being made to be forced back into the trash can so soon after he came back in Rebirth. Nightwing too. No coincidence that Rebirth took a sharp left turn so soon after beloved characters like Roy came back.

  5. #35
    Ultimate Member Ascended's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sunofdarkchild View Post
    Didio is a marketing guy who seems to think there's no such thing as bad publicity, hence why he seems happy to 'take credit' for creating the backlash against the way Stephanie Brown was treated when she was killed off. I think he's a terrible writer and hate how he trolled fans so much and many of his creative decisions, but he may be a really nice guy in person. His skillset is simply on the marketing side of things, not the creative side.
    It was actually kinda brilliant business for him to take all the blame, too.

    When we blame Didio for everything, including the stuff that he didn't do, it protected everyone else.

    I mean, if a writer does something people hate, fans start watching out for that creator's name on a book and avoiding their work. If we blame Johns or EVS for the mess that is Wally West then we're much more likely to avoid those creators' next projects. That means less money in DC's pocket (especially if it's a high selling creator like Johns, Snyder, King, etc). But when we blame Didio for Wally, we're still willing to buy Johns' and EVS' next book.

    Didio talked to the guys above him on a regular basis, allowing him the opportunity to explain that he's not responsible for this outrage, he's just protecting the bottom line, which makes him look good to his bosses and also covers Didio's ass when stuff really is his fault, since he's got his bosses accustomed to ignoring all the complaints leveled at Didio. And it allows him to protect his creators too, taking blame from the bosses and customers and keeping those creators employed and profitable.

    I'm not saying it's an ideal way to handle things or anything, DC seemed to be a pretty passionate (maybe "volatile" would be a better word) workplace under Didio, and the guy seemed to thrive off conflict and debate, which can be good, depending on how you handle yourself and your company culture, or it can be awful, but good or bad, Didio did seem to protect a lot of creators by taking the blame for their stupid ideas. Of course, in business I feel like sh*t should roll uphill, a creator's stupid idea still got approved by someone, and that someone got approved and/or hired by someone above them, etc. And Didio did plenty that was all on him, where he wasn't protecting anyone. But I do think him positioning himself as DC's lightning rod did protect a lot of people.
    Last edited by Ascended; 04-22-2020 at 01:22 PM.
    "We all know the truth: more connects us than separates us. But in times of crisis the wise build bridges, while the foolish build barriers. We must find a way to look after one another, as if we were one single tribe."

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  6. #36
    Fantastic Member Dr. Ellingham's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The no face guy View Post
    This is true, but it is also true that as a paying customer, CTTT can give DC comics the middle finger salute and stop buying their product. DC does have a worthy competitor, and last time I looked both Logan and Clint Barton have resumed their roles as Wolverine and Hawkeye...so CTTT, if your a fan check them out.
    I absolutely agree - I did the same thing. The only thing that matters is our individual votes - buying (supporting) what you like. The rest is just noise.

    Because the fictional characters are remarkably resilient. They don't have feelings, and a creator snaps their fingers and things are miraculously better. Or worse. And both are matters of perspective anyway:

    Tomorrow someone can come along and say, let's make Tim Drake Robin again!! And 50,000 Tim Drake fans will sigh in relief. And another 50,000 Damien fans will get out their pitchforks. But the key is - it's just entertainment; I find it useful to keep that in perspective.

  7. #37
    Mighty Member warzon's Avatar
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    Well he's gone now.let's see what Lee is planning on doing anything different you know what they say.be careful wgat you wish for.look at this new Legion we have.

  8. #38
    Extraordinary Member Holt's Avatar
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    As others have said, he seems like a nice guy and people constantly have good things to say about him. I wish him no ill will. But running a company on your personal whims rather than what your customers want always seemed stupid to me. Bringing back Barry Allen and Barbara Gordon is one thing. Actively shitting on their replacements to the point that you flat-out remove them from continuity just because you personally dislike them is something I just don't get.

    Argue about whether Barry or Wally sold better, whatever. Wally held his own series for decades. Even if you weren't gonna give him a solo book with Barry around, he couldn't be in a team of some kind? You're gonna tell me his fans wouldn't have followed him in a Justice League spin-off or Titans or something? Same for characters like Stephanie Brown and Cassandra Cain. If they can't have the mantle, whatever, but just flat out deciding nobody is allowed to use them at all out of spite seemed counterproductive. But that's just my two cents.

  9. #39
    Incredible Member The no face guy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Ellingham View Post
    I absolutely agree - I did the same thing. The only thing that matters is our individual votes - buying (supporting) what you like. The rest is just noise.

    Because the fictional characters are remarkably resilient. They don't have feelings, and a creator snaps their fingers and things are miraculously better. Or worse. And both are matters of perspective anyway:

    Tomorrow someone can come along and say, let's make Tim Drake Robin again!! And 50,000 Tim Drake fans will sigh in relief. And another 50,000 Damien fans will get out their pitchforks. But the key is - it's just entertainment; I find it useful to keep that in perspective.
    I agree with you as well, and it is a shame to hear that some comic fans were disrespectful to Didio online, that is regrettable, but I think fan opinion and the noise can make a difference. It was essentially the constant barrage of fan opinion and support for Hal Jordan that made DC executives realize there was a profit in the character and change course, Ollie as well.

    Is the comic fanbase as strong as it was 20 years ago? Probably not, but Wally West fans have every right to express their discontent. Comic fans like sports fans tend to be a passionate lot.

  10. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by CTTT View Post
    Ok, so, thank God this guy is gone as publisher. It is amazing he really lasted so long at DC. He deserved all the vitriol he got. But I read an a recent article where Didio said that you have to have shakeups/events to basically keep readers from being bored. Ok, so like Marvel basically. Then he goes on to say that he wanted and I'm paraphrasing here, that he wanted to keep the characters lives progressing forward.

    So, lets see:

    Wally West- character assassination and burial from 2011-2016 replaced by Wallace West aka "black Wally". Then portrayed as a murderer fleeing the crime in Heroes in Crisis. At the same time attempting to split the Barry and Wally fanbase.

    Garth- Drowned Earth in Aquaman. Not seen or heard from since. I guess he drowned? Jackson has been in the Aquaman books recently.

    Roy Harper- killed in Heroes in Crisis.

    Nightwing- Shot in the head, comes back with amnesia and shaved head and really ugly costume or street costume and calls himself "Ric" Grayson distancing himself from Bruce and family. And has his own team of inferior Nightwings.

    Titans rebirth book with grown up sidekicks mentioned above- cancelled after I think 40 issues?

    To be fair Wallace and Jackson were able to rebound from their awkward intros and become their own character and voice. But...as mentioned above how do these things with Wally Garth, etc progress their characters forward, as Didio says exactly?

    Bottom line. Never thought these characters made Arthur Bruce and Barry look "old". It made me have further admiration for the characters as mentors and enhanced their coolness factor with me. Hope the Titans come back strong.
    Ric Grayson? Is this serious? A lot of this sounds like FORMERLY KNOWN AS THE JUSTICE LEAGUE style humour.

  11. #41
    Ultimate Member Ascended's Avatar
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    Oh, it's true, and there's nothing funny about it.

    Tom King wanted to take all of Bruce's support off the table for his Batman run and suggested Dick get shot. I guess his idea was that it'd last for an issue or two and then Dick would go about his business in his own title, occupied with whatever it is Percy had planned.

    DC, in their infinite wisdom, decided to try to turn the whole thing into Dick's version of Daredevil's Born Again storyline. Except they didn't have quality creators, or a plan, or anything else. What has happened since has been pretty awful, from what I've seen. I dropped the book as soon as it happened since I won't support stupid ass decisions just so I can see favorite characters dragged through sh*t.

    But the gist of it is, the injury gave Dick amnesia and he didn't remember anything since his childhood in the circus, and distanced himself from all his friends and family, blaming them and the hero life for his getting hurt. He ended up homeless, driving a cab in Bludhaven, and some random cops (and one fire fighter) have all put on Nightwing costumes to take up protecting the city. The Court of Owls has supposedly been manipulating Dick from the start of this, eventually inserting a set of fake memories where he became a Talon and killed Batman....then Dick got his real memories back but can't tell which are real (even though he's met the people he supposedly killed in those fake memories).

    Once or twice it's looked like Dick was coming back, only for DC to make things more nonsensical and drag the whole sh*tshow out even longer. And now, supposedly, somewhere around issue 75, he'll be back as Nightwing....but we've thought that before so who the hell knows what'll happen.

    The whole thing is worth less than the two minutes it's taken me to write this.
    "We all know the truth: more connects us than separates us. But in times of crisis the wise build bridges, while the foolish build barriers. We must find a way to look after one another, as if we were one single tribe."

    ~ Black Panther.

  12. #42
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    Personally...if it was me, I'd use the opportunity to have Dick Grayson return as Robin and all those other Robins can take a hike or change their names.

  13. #43
    Extraordinary Member Vordan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vampire Savior View Post
    Personally...if it was me, I'd use the opportunity to have Dick Grayson return as Robin and all those other Robins can take a hike or change their names.
    Dick has long since outgrown Robin. No one has any interest in seeing him go back to being Batman’s sidekick, and he wouldn’t really fit the role anymore anyway. He’s too old and too independent to go back to that.

  14. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vordan View Post
    Dick has long since outgrown Robin. No one has any interest in seeing him go back to being Batman’s sidekick, and he wouldn’t really fit the role anymore anyway. He’s too old and too independent to go back to that.
    If you can, please direct me to where I said Dick Grayson should return to being Batman's sidekick.

  15. #45
    Ultimate Member SiegePerilous02's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vampire Savior View Post
    If you can, please direct me to where I said Dick Grayson should return to being Batman's sidekick.
    What else would he be?

    At this point it's pretty well cemented that Robin is Batman's sidekick. The opportunity to get rid of that idea and have an adult Robin lead the Titans away from Batman came and went and they proceeded with Nightwing instead.

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