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  1. #16
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Restingvoice View Post
    Sounds more like a spin-off from Harley series by Conner and Palmiotti than a Wonder Woman story
    It felt very in-line with Conner and Palmiotti's HQ run, at least from what I've read, with Wonder Woman feeling a tad tacked on to it. At least in my opinion.

  2. #17
    Astonishing Member kjn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gaius View Post
    I think the answer is fairly straightforward in that Connor and Palmiotti prefer Harley Quinn to Wonder Woman.
    I think that's a questionable assertion. Conner and Palmiotti have written (and drawn) some great Wonder Woman stories. "Fuzzy Logic" is a delight, and is one of the few stories that take modern Diana's cluelessness of modern culture (note: a cluelessness that very much did not exist with original Wonder Woman), and makes it work and be fun. Their teamup in Harley's Little Black Book was also a delight (though told from Harley's point of view).

    Because I think this is a problem that goes way beyond any single writer. Wilson described one part of the problem. Rucka has described others. Christopher Priest lamented how he wasn't allowed to do anything interesting with Diana. And so on.
    «Speaking generally, it is because of the desire of the tragic poets for the marvellous that so varied and inconsistent an account of Medea has been given out» (Diodorus Siculus, The Library of History [4.56.1])

  3. #18
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    The preview for #2 includes Lois!

  4. #19
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kjn View Post
    I think that's a questionable assertion. Conner and Palmiotti have written (and drawn) some great Wonder Woman stories. "Fuzzy Logic" is a delight, and is one of the few stories that take modern Diana's cluelessness of modern culture (note: a cluelessness that very much did not exist with original Wonder Woman), and makes it work and be fun. Their teamup in Harley's Little Black Book was also a delight (though told from Harley's point of view).

    Because I think this is a problem that goes way beyond any single writer. Wilson described one part of the problem. Rucka has described others. Christopher Priest lamented how he wasn't allowed to do anything interesting with Diana. And so on.
    If they've written her fine in the past then I don't see why this issue should have been a problem from a writing perspective. Well, other than their being Harley Quinn writers.

  5. #20
    Astonishing Member kjn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    If they've written her fine in the past then I don't see why this issue should have been a problem from a writing perspective. Well, other than their being Harley Quinn writers.
    I think you're in danger of typecasting Conner and Palmiotti. Just as I imagine that the editorial staff at DC might do.

    I view this more as writing in certain modes than about specific characters. Conner and Palmiotti are great at humour, at leaning on the fourth wall, and general chaos. But they are also good at stuff like innuendo and zany character interaction. That makes them a natural fit for Harley Quinn, but also for a character like Power Girl (and I imagine they could do a killer She-Hulk).

    But it also means that they are not a natural fit for Wonder Woman as she is imagined right now. It does not mean they dislike the character. Rather, they are one of the creators I'd trust to do a modern reimagining of Marston's Golden Age Wonder Woman, because their strengths would work much better there.
    «Speaking generally, it is because of the desire of the tragic poets for the marvellous that so varied and inconsistent an account of Medea has been given out» (Diodorus Siculus, The Library of History [4.56.1])

  6. #21
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kjn View Post
    I think you're in danger of typecasting Conner and Palmiotti. Just as I imagine that the editorial staff at DC might do.

    I view this more as writing in certain modes than about specific characters. Conner and Palmiotti are great at humour, at leaning on the fourth wall, and general chaos. But they are also good at stuff like innuendo and zany character interaction. That makes them a natural fit for Harley Quinn, but also for a character like Power Girl (and I imagine they could do a killer She-Hulk).

    But it also means that they are not a natural fit for Wonder Woman as she is imagined right now. It does not mean they dislike the character. Rather, they are one of the creators I'd trust to do a modern reimagining of Marston's Golden Age Wonder Woman, because their strengths would work much better there.
    I'm not trying to typecast Conner and Palmiotti, at least in a negative way. I loved their Power Girl run and their work on Starfire. I may think they contributed to a lot of my current issues with modern Harley, but that's beside the point.

    If they were not a good fit for a standard Wonder Woman story, then they weren't the right choice for writing this series. It doesn't stand out well when they immediately have the book basically get taken over by a character they have more of an affinity for, something I haven't seen for the other Digital First books I've read.

    But maybe it's also a Harley issue. If this were a team-up with Power Girl or Atlee it might've been different. I'm curious to see how they handle the Lois issue.

  7. #22
    Invincible Member Digifiend's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kjn View Post
    I think that's a questionable assertion. Conner and Palmiotti have written (and drawn) some great Wonder Woman stories. "Fuzzy Logic" is a delight, and is one of the few stories that take modern Diana's cluelessness of modern culture (note: a cluelessness that very much did not exist with original Wonder Woman),
    Well hopefully THAT will be a thing of the past by the end of the year. Now that Diana's meant to have been active for 80 years.
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  8. #23
    Astonishing Member Gaius's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kjn View Post
    I think you're in danger of typecasting Conner and Palmiotti. Just as I imagine that the editorial staff at DC might do.

    I view this more as writing in certain modes than about specific characters. Conner and Palmiotti are great at humour, at leaning on the fourth wall, and general chaos. But they are also good at stuff like innuendo and zany character interaction. That makes them a natural fit for Harley Quinn, but also for a character like Power Girl (and I imagine they could do a killer She-Hulk).

    But it also means that they are not a natural fit for Wonder Woman as she is imagined right now. It does not mean they dislike the character. Rather, they are one of the creators I'd trust to do a modern reimagining of Marston's Golden Age Wonder Woman, because their strengths would work much better there.
    Than I guess it just comes down personal taste as apparently I don’t find funny what Connor/Palmiotti find funny.

    And any WW/Harley team up I find dead on arrival as I think Quinn is the Scrappy Doo/Poochie of DC

  9. #24

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    Gave it a look and wasn't impressed. Harley is as insufferable as ever, and I'm going to have to agree with others that Conner & Palmiotti only seem to regard Diana as the boring straight-woman to contrast the character they actually care about. I wasn't big on on their previous efforts at writing her either to be honest. "Fuzzy Logic" was meh, and "Harley's Black Book" was utterly abysmal. This was more of the same, and I wouldn't be surprised if Lois takes the spotlight in the next issue and Diana is just the humorless stick in the mud.
    "Never place your trust in us. We're only human. Inevitably, we will disappoint you."


  10. #25
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    The second issue was a major improvement. It helped that Harley wasn't around and WW was doing WW things.

  11. #26
    Astonishing Member kjn's Avatar
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    It might be just me, but I continued to think of this as rather forgettable and with a not very interesting Diana.

    Structurally, it reminded me a lot of the first issue of Come Back to Me, with Diana handling a disaster not connected with the rest of the issue. But unlike that issue, it didn't pick up on any of Diana's lesser-used powers—instead all we get is the standard ones of strength and flight.

    I also think the story continues to place too much emphasis on the sword, and it's not even a sensible sword in any way, from a design perspective. The resolution of the story doesn't feel very Wonder Woman, and for a story which digs into mythology it deemphasises Diana's connection to mythology and magic a lot. The resolution feels more fitting for Superman than for Wonder Woman, who after all also is a being of and from the earth. The dialogue also feels like it's stuck in a place where it is neither fish nor fowl. Everyone speaks in the same faux-formal style, especially once the action starts.

    I think the previous issue was more enjoyable; at least it had some surprises and semblance of humour.
    «Speaking generally, it is because of the desire of the tragic poets for the marvellous that so varied and inconsistent an account of Medea has been given out» (Diodorus Siculus, The Library of History [4.56.1])

  12. #27
    They LAUGHED at my theory SteveGus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kjn View Post
    I also think the story continues to place too much emphasis on the sword, and it's not even a sensible sword in any way, from a design perspective. The resolution of the story doesn't feel very Wonder Woman, and for a story which digs into mythology it deemphasises Diana's connection to mythology and magic a lot. The resolution feels more fitting for Superman than for Wonder Woman, who after all also is a being of and from the earth. The dialogue also feels like it's stuck in a place where it is neither fish nor fowl. Everyone speaks in the same faux-formal style, especially once the action starts.
    Actually, this was a very old mythological trope: Antaeus returned in the form of a yeti.
    "At what point do we say, 'You're mucking with our myths'?" - Harlan Ellison

  13. #28
    Astonishing Member kjn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SteveGus View Post
    Actually, this was a very old mythological trope: Antaeus returned in the form of a yeti.
    Oh, I'm not thinking about the monster. I'm thinking of how Diana reacts to and approaches Shan Xiao.

    Diana is as much a being of earth as Shan Xiao, with her receiving the blessing of Demeter and being crafted from Gaia's clay. Her approach shouldn't be to solve the problem, but to understand the nature of the problem.
    «Speaking generally, it is because of the desire of the tragic poets for the marvellous that so varied and inconsistent an account of Medea has been given out» (Diodorus Siculus, The Library of History [4.56.1])

  14. #29
    Astonishing Member Tzigone's Avatar
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    The resolution of the story doesn't feel very Wonder Woman, and for a story which digs into mythology it deemphasises Diana's connection to mythology and magic a lot
    Going off on a tangent - when did Diana get so connected to magic, anyway? Mythology connection is, of course, ancient. But there was a lot more tech than magic (excluding the gods and goddesses) in the early stuff.

  15. #30
    Astonishing Member Koriand'r's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tzigone View Post
    Going off on a tangent - when did Diana get so connected to magic, anyway? Mythology connection is, of course, ancient. But there was a lot more tech than magic (excluding the gods and goddesses) in the early stuff.
    The magic lasso (of truth) the magic sphere and the lasso transformation were all magical.

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