Andre the Giant vs. Bruce Lee

[Powerboy]

Okay so I'm bored. This is Andre in his prime with all his size and strength but without being overweight as seen here.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4O2zl2GcDi4

Granted, it's still a choreographed fight but I'm just showing how agile he was then.

In real life, he was 6'11" and probably weighed 350 back then. I saw a very old thread about this fight from 15 years ago so I don't think that counts. Then, I went to a martial arts board and saw a thread also from about 15 years ago, expecting they would say this fight is ridiculous and that Andre would have no chance. Surprisingly, black belts were having a serious debate about it. It ranged from "Bruce just takes out his knees or ankles, the end" to "In martial arts, we *say* that size and strength don't matter but this is a difference that is ridiculous."

I thought about making it Chuck Norris instead of Bruce Lee but then people would say Chuck wins simply because he has legitimately proven feats in real fights, sports though they are, and Andre doesn't. So I stuck with Bruce because his "feats" have the same kind of fantasy hype that Andre's feats have since any film evidence we have is choreographed in both cases.

So extreme size and weight versus skill basically. Andre vs Bruce.

It should go without saying that this is hand to hand only. No rules other than that.

[Xero Kaiser]

As soon as Andre gets his hands on something...arm...leg...clump of hair...waistband...whatever, this fight is over.

Bruce Lee was a beast. We all know this.

But no.

[Sharpandpointies]

Bruce might have been a beast for his size and weight, but that's all. He's severely lacking in actual feats that stand up to scrutiny. Was the dude skilled? Sure. Could he fight? Definitely.

Was he some awesome killing machine? Erm. We've got nothing on that.

He's facing someone who is a monster compared to him, whose reach out-reaches Bruce's kicks. Whose face he can't hit, whose body he can't really hurt (by this I mean, body-shots from Bruce in a real fight aren't likely to do a lot of substance while putting him in range...I do NOT mean 'Andre is immune from injury from getting hit in the body by Lee'). His big chance WOULD be knees, but Andre is going to know that, and it's still not a great chance because he needs to get in grab range just to TRY for a knee.

I'm not liking Lee's chances, here.

[master of read]

since this is prime andre, not liking bruce's chances. andre's power was.......legendary in wrestling circles. the only ones who i could call being up there with him in terms of just raw strength is mark henry and the big show. and this is a shoot, guys.

if and when andre catches him, it's over for bruce.

[wjowski]

I mean if we're going by real-world stuff then Andre has something of an anti-feat in getting cowed by Allen Coage aka Bad News Brown.

[Cleric of Hell’s Brigade]

Andre breaks him.

Sheer size and strength win here. Bruce’s best bet is the knees, and that plants him very firmly within Andre’s reach.

[Powerboy]

I mean if we're going by real-world stuff then Andre has something of an anti-feat in getting cowed by Allen Coage aka Bad News Brown.

A lot of people might not know but Bad News Brown was, I think, a 5th degree in jiu-jitsu and a massively big guy. This incident also happened when Andre was well towards the end of his career and could barely move.

I saw an interview where Jim Duggan talked about that incident. He readily admitted there were a dozen wrestlers who could have destroyed Andre in a real fight even at his best. But he was there when that incident happened and said Andre wasn't reacting like he was afraid even though he was so bad off physically by that time that he knew he would lose. It wasn't like he wasn't used to taking pain. It was just that the situation was another wrestler throwing a fit and calling him out to fight when all the other wrestlers were on the plane and Brown was standing outside wanting him to come out and fight on the tarmac of an airport. Andre wasn't stupid. Brown would have been attacking a practically immobile target by that time in Andre's life (twenty years after the movie clip) and they both would have been arrested. Andre was not easily goaded. As far as I know, the only reason Brown wanted the fight was because Andre was the biggest guy in the room, something Andre dealt with his whole life.

There are two incidents about Andre in real fights. In both cases, he was in a bar and another patron started getting aggressive just because of his size. You know the routine. "I don't care how big you are. I can take you". Alcohol was also involved, of course. In both cases, the guy paced back and forth for a bit, building his courage. In one case, the guy reached into his pocket. In the other, he had a knife and sheathe on his belt. Andre stood up and kept his hand on a chair. In both cases, when the guy made his move, it was with a knife despite his boast that he could take him in a fight. In both cases, Andre blocked with the chair, used it to push the guy back and broke it over the guy's head when he tried to move in again.

There's also the incident about him turning over a car from the side by slamming it with his weight and pushing up again and again after some college guys started mocking him until he had enough and went after them and they ran and locked themselves in the car.

Ken Patera, who won the gold medal in powerlifting at the Olympics, said Andre would go to the gym but, in his older days, didn't work out. He was just there to chat with his friends. But some young wrestler would often start teasing him about not working out. He didn't because he was in too much pain by that time. But he could bench press because that didn't put as much pressure on his back or knees. Once he'd had enough, he would go over and bench whatever that wrestler was benching and their tune would change. They would want to see if he could lift even more and his response would be, "When you can lift that much, we'll see." Patera's bench was just over 500 pounds and he estimated Andre's maximum bench was about 70-80% of his since Patera was just out of the Olympics when he met Andre. That would put Andre's bench press at 350 to 400 pounds. As Patera put it, Andre was so strong that he had no interest in proving how strong he was or showing anybody up.

[Powerboy]

Bruce might have been a beast for his size and weight, but that's all. He's severely lacking in actual feats that stand up to scrutiny. Was the dude skilled? Sure. Could he fight? Definitely.

Was he some awesome killing machine? Erm. We've got nothing on that.

He's facing someone who is a monster compared to him, whose reach out-reaches Bruce's kicks. Whose face he can't hit, whose body he can't really hurt (by this I mean, body-shots from Bruce in a real fight aren't likely to do a lot of substance while putting him in range...I do NOT mean 'Andre is immune from injury from getting hit in the body by Lee'). His big chance WOULD be knees, but Andre is going to know that, and it's still not a great chance because he needs to get in grab range just to TRY for a knee.

I'm not liking Lee's chances, here.

I really thought this was be in favor of Lee but you're right. While going for the knees or ankles would be Lee's best bet, doing that puts him into Andre's range to grab him and this is Andre in his prime.

[Jackalope89]

Bruce Lee. He was an actual martial artist and trained as such and then some.

Yes, Andre was a big guy. And while strong, that's not enough to tip the scales here (metaphorically speaking).



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rPAoNPJ2Mas

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rPAoNPJ2Mas

Bruce Lee was literally a man of ahead of his time in terms of martial arts, combining various aspects of numerous martial arts together in terms of practicality, effectiveness, and style. He didn't ONLY practice the moves, but he also weight lifted and exorcised on the side. I highly advise looking up some of his stuff.

[Powerboy]

Bruce Lee. He was an actual martial artist and trained as such and then some.

Yes, Andre was a big guy. And while strong, that's not enough to tip the scales here (metaphorically speaking).



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rPAoNPJ2Mas

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rPAoNPJ2Mas

Bruce Lee was literally a man of ahead of his time in terms of martial arts, combining various aspects of numerous martial arts together in terms of practicality, effectiveness, and style. He didn't ONLY practice the moves, but he also weight lifted and exorcised on the side. I highly advise looking up some of his stuff.

Oh I know his real life credentials. By the way, I've seen this fight you posted already and it's beside the point. Andre in his prime was not overweight, let alone badly obese, and was quite agile as shown in the OP video. If this were best of ten, I'd absolutely say Bruce takes three of them by getting in close and nailing a knee or ankle. But the other times, he gets grabbed and, even with weightlifting by Bruce and knowing what a physique he had, Andre's strength was enormous in his prime. Andre himself worked out a lot in his prime which numerous photos make clear. The difference in strength and mass is overwhelming and this isn't 1980s Andre who was badly overweight and with joints so badly off he could barely move.

[Jackalope89]

Oh I know his real life credentials. By the way, I've seen this fight you posted already and it's beside the point. Andre in his prime was not overweight, let alone badly obese, and was quite agile as shown in the OP video. If this were best of ten, I'd absolutely say Bruce takes three of them by getting in close and nailing a knee or ankle. But the other times, he gets grabbed and, even with weightlifting by Bruce and knowing what a physique he had, Andre's strength was enormous in his prime. Andre himself worked out a lot in his prime which numerous photos make clear. The difference in strength and mass is overwhelming and this isn't 1980s Andre who was badly overweight and with joints so badly off he could barely move.

The first video was to show that size and power don't mean a whole lot without technique.

Yes, Andre in his prime was big and strong. But once again, its not just legs Bruce could go for. Fingers, wrists, eyes, throat. Targets that don't require much strength at all to hurt. And someone as fast and strong as Bruce Lee, combined with his skills and training, Andre would be lucky to grab him once without serious injuries before he could blink. This isn't a Superman vs Batman in a straight up fight strength difference (about the only way such thing would matter). This is about a big guy against a trained an innovative fighter that can read other trained fighters.

[FrenchGemini]

Yup, the size and strength difference is too much for Bruce to overcome. Maybe if we take his composite instead.

Bruce Lee was literally a man of ahead of his time in terms of martial arts, combining various aspects of numerous martial arts together in terms of practicality, effectiveness, and style. He didn't ONLY practice the moves, but he also weight lifted and exorcised on the side. I highly advise looking up some of his stuff.

Great, now I want to see a movie about Bruce Lee exorcising demons (I wouldn't be astonished if there was a Bruceploitation movie about that)

[The Chou Lives]

Dude a Prime Andre could topple a car and cradle Prime Arnold Schwanzger as if he were a damned baby.

That amount of size and strength, plus Andre being smart at fighting is too much for Lee. I love Lee, a lot. Did great work, but not against Prime Andre.

Prime Andre is a damned force of nature.

[Powerboy]

The first video was to show that size and power don't mean a whole lot without technique.

Yes, Andre in his prime was big and strong. But once again, its not just legs Bruce could go for. Fingers, wrists, eyes, throat. Targets that don't require much strength at all to hurt. And someone as fast and strong as Bruce Lee, combined with his skills and training, Andre would be lucky to grab him once without serious injuries before he could blink. This isn't a Superman vs Batman in a straight up fight strength difference (about the only way such thing would matter). This is about a big guy against a trained an innovative fighter that can read other trained fighters.

The eyes and throat are well out of Lee's reach especially having to get by Andre's arms. And have you see the size of Andre's hands, wrists and even fingers?

And, as for wrist locks and finger grabs.

Andre the Giant hand size 2.jpg

Andre the Giant hand size 2.jpg

Andre the Giant hand size 3.jpg

Andre-the-Giant hand size.jpg

Are you really believing Bruce is getting a wrist lock on this? Or even an effective grab of a finger?

But let's say he does get a finger and manage to break it. Do you know how many times wrestlers get broken fingers even in choreographed matches and keep right on going? The price is that Andre probably grabs him in turn and it's over. Andre is hurting badly from a broken finger. Bruce is choked out or slammed into the concrete with Andre on top of him.

Now, if you want a 100% real fight (other than ignoring that they'd have no reason to fight on the street to begin with), I suspect it would go on for a minute with nothing happening and then they'd call it. Bruce would not be stupid enough to get within Andre's reach and Andre would protect his lower body and make half-hearted grab attempts without over-extending and leaving himself vulnerable to grabs or Bruce getting in close. Actually, they'd both hesitate to get close, Bruce for fear of getting grappled by a guy with twice his strength (yes even with weightlifting) and more than twice his mass, and Andre for fear of kicks to the knees. The winner would be whoever got lucky first. But that's a lot of real fights. I still give odds in favor of Andre. There's a reason people are divided into weight classes and here it's weight, strength and reach, which is overwhelmingly important, especially when one guy's arm reach is greater than the other guy's leg reach.

[Powerboy]

Dude a Prime Andre could topple a car and cradle Prime Arnold Schwanzger as if he were a damned baby.

That amount of size and strength, plus Andre being smart at fighting is too much for Lee. I love Lee, a lot. Did great work, but not against Prime Andre.

Prime Andre is a damned force of nature.

Just to note, picking up Arnold Scharzenegger and cradling him like a baby for some photos wasn't even Prime Andre. That was 1984 almost on his last legs Andre.