Andre the Giant vs. Bruce Lee

[master of read]

Just to note, picking up Arnold Scharzenegger and cradling him like a baby for some photos wasn't even Prime Andre. That was 1984 almost on his last legs Andre.

arnold standing next to wilt Chamberlin and andre.

[Powerboy]

arnold standing next to wilt Chamberlin and andre.

LOL. Note that 7'1" Wilt is taller than 7'4" Andre because, well, pro wrestling. Andre was really 6'10", thought to be 6'11" before he started developing curvature of the spine.

[The Drunkard Kid]

How do their respective staminas stack up? I could see Lee trying to play keep away and driving to trying to attack any extremeties that Andre puts into range since he has much more impressive striking speed, from what I recall, but that won't really help if he gets tired first

[master of read]

How do their respective staminas stack up? I could see Lee trying to play keep away and driving to trying to attack any extremeties that Andre puts into range since he has much more impressive striking speed, from what I recall, but that won't really help if he gets tired first

in his prime, i think andre could go 20 minutes or more in matches. i'd have to look since I'm not well up on prime andre stuff.

[Jcogginsa]

Yup, the size and strength difference is too much for Bruce to overcome. Maybe if we take his composite instead.



Great, now I want to see a movie about Bruce Lee exorcising demons (I wouldn't be astonished if there was a Bruceploitation movie about that)

I know there was one about Bruce Lee teaming up with Popeye to fight Dracula in hell

[choptop]

This would be better if we used one of the movie versions of BL.

[Powerboy]

in his prime, i think andre could go 20 minutes or more in matches. i'd have to look since I'm not well up on prime andre stuff.

Well, twenty minutes in a professional wrestling match is nothing like twenty minutes in a real fight. A real fight on the street shouldn't last long enough for stamina to matter. But, own experience of sparring with smaller, quicker people, they are the ones expending all of the energy.

My original instructor was 6'8", 250 pounds. I'm 6'2", 200+ even in those days (the 1980s). So he quickly taught me a few things. First, there is no rule that I have to chase anybody. I just stand in the center of the mat. If they won't step within my range, then they don't. They would start moving around to get to my side or back. Them: Expend energy taking several steps. Me: Stand where I am and just pivot. Them: Take two steps in to attack. I don't move. They attack. I block and counter, taking maybe one step towards them. They backpedal three or four steps. I stop as soon as they start to move away. I've taken one step. They've taken four. They are expending far more energy. I honestly remember being a white belt sparring against brown belts and having fast enough reflexes and knowing the moves enough that I could block a joint lock before it was completed and throw a guy with sheer strength so hard he ended several feet away. But I didn't usually do that because that's not learning more skill.

And that's with just punching and kicking. When we were allowed to grapple, it wasn't even a contest. My challenge was constantly to not use strength and develop skill even if I got caught in a joint lock by trying to use only skill.

Granted my opponents were no Bruce Lee but I'm not even close to Andre the Giant.

There were certainly people who could beat me but they were on a belt and skill level way, way above me. I'm not even saying this is anything to be impressed by. It's just one of those myths of martial arts that size, weight and strength are irrelevant. When you've got size, strength, weight, good reflexes and basic self-defense skills, it's nothing to underestimate. Skill absolutely matters. Bruce Lee was overwhelmingly more skilled than anybody I fought. But the difference is size, weight and strength between him and Andre is also overwhelmingly greater than the difference in those things between me and anybody I fought.

[Powerboy]

This would be better if we used one of the movie versions of BL.

Yeah but then we'd be using the kayfabe pro wrestling version of Andre too.

[choptop]

Yeah but then we'd be using the kayfabe pro wrestling version of Andre too.

Seems fair to me.

[master of read]

Well, twenty minutes in a professional wrestling match is nothing like twenty minutes in a real fight. A real fight on the street shouldn't last long enough for stamina to matter. But, own experience of sparring with smaller, quicker people, they are the ones expending all of the energy.

My original instructor was 6'8", 250 pounds. I'm 6'2", 200+ even in those days (the 1980s). So he quickly taught me a few things. First, there is no rule that I have to chase anybody. I just stand in the center of the mat. If they won't step within my range, then they don't. They would start moving around to get to my side or back. Them: Expend energy taking several steps. Me: Stand where I am and just pivot. Them: Take two steps in to attack. I don't move. They attack. I block and counter, taking maybe one step towards them. They backpedal three or four steps. I stop as soon as they start to move away. I've taken one step. They've taken four. They are expending far more energy. I honestly remember being a white belt sparring against brown belts and having fast enough reflexes and knowing the moves enough that I could block a joint lock before it was completed and throw a guy with sheer strength so hard he ended several feet away. But I didn't usually do that because that's not learning more skill.

And that's with just punching and kicking. When we were allowed to grapple, it wasn't even a contest. My challenge was constantly to not use strength and develop skill even if I got caught in a joint lock by trying to use only skill.

Granted my opponents were no Bruce Lee but I'm not even close to Andre the Giant.

There were certainly people who could beat me but they were on a belt and skill level way, way above me. I'm not even saying this is anything to be impressed by. It's just one of those myths of martial arts that size, weight and strength are irrelevant. When you've got size, strength, weight, good reflexes and basic self-defense skills, it's nothing to underestimate. Skill absolutely matters. Bruce Lee was overwhelmingly more skilled than anybody I fought. But the difference is size, weight and strength between him and Andre is also overwhelmingly greater than the difference in those things between me and anybody I fought.

true but in wrestling, it takes a lot of cardio and stamina just to do a quick 5 minute match. Stephen amelle, perhaps the greatest celeb wrestler of all time, didn't wrestle long in those tag matches and he was wiped after those matches, despite being in great shape due to his training for "arrow". similar thing with flloyd after his relatively short match with the big show.

as someone who trained a bit in the ring, just running and falling on the match can sap your strength. so if the stories about him in his prime are to be believed, then andre had some serious gas in the tank back in the day.

[Powerboy]

true but in wrestling, it takes a lot of cardio and stamina just to do a quick 5 minute match. Stephen amelle, perhaps the greatest celeb wrestler of all time, didn't wrestle long in those tag matches and he was wiped after those matches, despite being in great shape due to his training for "arrow". similar thing with flloyd after his relatively short match with the big show.

as someone who trained a bit in the ring, just running and falling on the match can sap your strength. so if the stories about him in his prime are to be believed, then andre had some serious gas in the tank back in the day.

That's true. A friend of mine did some local wrestling and he said dropping to the mat and getting up again and again and again and again and again wore him out in seconds and he was in good shape.

I saw a match from the 1970s, which would have been mid-career for Andre, neither young nor on his last legs, against Harley Race that lasted a half hour and it was up and down, in and out of the ring, falling and getting up, body slamming and back tosses and Andre was holding his own at that pace. I saw one against Hogan from that era when Hogan was the villain. Hogan pushed him into the corner. Andre leaped out of the corner- yes, leaped- with a front kick to the face. I was amazed. It felt like I just saw a Sherman tank jump and do a front kick.

The Andre of what I will call the middle era was really the most impressive of all. He wasn't significantly overweight or worn down by his own joints and injuries yet but he had clearly been seriously lifting weights for years because he was far more massive than back in that movie when he was young without much of it being fat.

I would say that middle point would be when he was the most dangerous of all. A little slower but still agile and with a speed that would catch someone by surprise and with more sheer strength and durability than when he was younger.

I had no idea about that Stephen Amell match. Gotta look it up.

Remember what happened when Mr. T tried wrestling. He looked like he had no wind left after a minute in the ring and his knees were trembling trying to body slam Rowdy Roddy Piper who was one of the smallest wrestlers.

[master of read]

That's true. A friend of mine did some local wrestling and he said dropping to the mat and getting up again and again and again and again and again wore him out in seconds and he was in good shape.

I saw a match from the 1970s, which would have been mid-career for Andre, neither young nor on his last legs, against Harley Race that lasted a half hour and it was up and down, in and out of the ring, falling and getting up, body slamming and back tosses and Andre was holding his own at that pace. I saw one against Hogan from that era when Hogan was the villain. Hogan pushed him into the corner. Andre leaped out of the corner- yes, leaped- with a front kick to the face. I was amazed. It felt like I just saw a Sherman tank jump and do a front kick.

The Andre of what I will call the middle era was really the most impressive of all. He wasn't significantly overweight or worn down by his own joints and injuries yet but he had clearly been seriously lifting weights for years because he was far more massive than back in that movie when he was young without much of it being fat.

I would say that middle point would be when he was the most dangerous of all. A little slower but still agile and with a speed that would catch someone by surprise and with more sheer strength and durability than when he was younger.

I had no idea about that Stephen Amell match. Gotta look it up.

Remember what happened when Mr. T tried wrestling. He looked like he had no wind left after a minute in the ring and his knees were trembling trying to body slam Rowdy Roddy Piper who was one of the smallest wrestlers.

stephen's actually wrestled quite a bit. after his match with cody/stardust, the two kept in touch. then when Cody joined the bullet club and wrestled a few matches with Cody and the bucks.

then he has his first singles match against Christopher daniels.



that's why i call him the greatest celeb wrestler ever. he really got into it and actually wanted to get better.

[jetengine]

Seems fair to me.

Kayfabe Andre can lift 2000lbs. Hed punch clean through Bruce.

[Powerboy]

stephen's actually wrestled quite a bit. after his match with cody/stardust, the two kept in touch. then when Cody joined the bullet club and wrestled a few matches with Cody and the bucks.

then he has his first singles match against Christopher daniels.



that's why i call him the greatest celeb wrestler ever. he really got into it and actually wanted to get better.

Watched it. Looked very impressive. I do wish sometimes that there was no commentary. I hate it when the commentators are telling us that what we saw isn't what we saw at all. For instance, "Daniels stomping him with vicious kicks" or something like that when we can see the kicks have no power and are barely tapping him.

I had no idea that there were that many celebrities that had done wrestling matches. I knew quite a few had made appearances but an actual match is something else.

What wrestling organization was that? After the WWE took out most of the local stuff, there were still some local territories but there seem to be some organizations now that have matches on or better than WWE level. Having matches where nobody interferes in somebody else's match is a big plus for me. That got to be every other match in the WWE and part of why I drifted away.

[Powerboy]

Kayfabe Andre can lift 2000lbs. Hed punch clean through Bruce.

Just found out about that recently. Some guy on a site who obviously had no medical credentials was talking about gigantism and how the disorder was horrible but at least it gave you superhuman strength, using Andre deadlifting a ton on a wrestling show as his example. Of course, this is the Internet era so I immediately looked it up and saw that the world deadlifting record today, forty years later, is 1015 pounds or half of what Andre allegedly lifted. Ironically, the exaggeration was probably not necessary as Andre's real strength was amazing.