I’m still mad about what’s been done to Moira MacTaggert.

[The tall man]

The retcon has her looking like a manipulative deceptive person. She essentially used Xavier and Magneto as well as others for her own ends, and she continues to withhold important information from Charles and Erik. She used Joe Mctaggart to produce Proteus as a tool/weapon for mutants and had Xavier do the same with Gabrielle Haller to produce Legion. Does this woman even care about her son or does she see him as a means to an end? Now I'm sure many will defend her actions as 100% necessary for the survival of mutantkind, but I'm sure if this was anyone else perpetrating these actions people would be crucifying them. Hell look at all the criticism that someone like Beast have gotten for his actions in the past. Actions like being a member of the Illuminati who were doing things to save all existence, he was and continues to be raked over the coals for things he did then. Moira has done basically the same if not worst and is praised for it. Why praise one and condemn the other?

[spirit2011]

He liked Bishop enough to bring back from his haitus due to being trapped in another time stream, he didn't mind bringing back Cecilia too and he definitely had a story in mind with her. Unfortunately he got sidelined (again) so Morrison could revitalize the X-Men and while I enjoyed a lot of it I wish CC could have finished his run first. And there was nothing not to like about District X. I at least remember that he liked Joss Whedon's X-Men. S

That said, I don't really think the anger started until Cyclops was pushed to the forefront. In his mind I think he felt Ororo's character and importance had been diminished. The same with Jean too. And I think he blames this for jeans death.

he ddin't liked Joss Whedon run on X-men.

I liked that Claremont used POC characters on his x-treme run, he did a good job to transition Bishop from 90s.

I think that Cllaremont being pushed aside for Morrison wasn't a good start. I'm not sure if Cyclops getting a huge push is the reason, recently he said that he would prefer Jean being kept dead after DPS.
So it is hard to say that he resented when Morriosn killed her again

The retcon has her looking like a manipulative deceptive person. She essentially used Xavier and Magneto as well as others for her own ends, and she continues to withhold important information from Charles and Erik. She used Joe Mctaggart to produce Proteus as a tool/weapon for mutants and had Xavier do the same with Gabrielle Haller to produce Legion. Does this woman even care about her son or does she see him as a means to an end? Now I'm sure many will defend her actions as 100% necessary for the survival of mutantkind, but I'm sure if this was anyone else perpetrating these actions people would be crucifying them. Hell look at all the criticism that someone like Beast have gotten for his actions in the past. Actions like being a member of the Illuminati who were doing things to save all existence, he was and continues to be raked over the coals for things he did then. Moira has done basically the same if not worst and is praised for it. Why praise one and condemn the other?

The original story had her being raped and then she got pregnant, I don't see how this is even possible with the huge retcon

Beast was with Avengers, that is it.

[From The Shadows]

Actually, I think I got what happened to Bishop wrong . I think he was in space. We need another X-Men questions thread.

[From The Shadows]

he ddin't liked Joss Whedon run on X-men.

I liked that Claremont used POC characters on his x-treme run, he did a good job to transition Bishop from 90s.

I think that Cllaremont being pushed aside for Morrison wasn't a good start. I'm not sure if Cyclops getting a huge push is the reason, recently he said that he would prefer Jean being kept dead after DPS.
So it is hard to say that he resented when Morriosn killed her again



The original story had her being raped and then she got pregnant, I don't see how this is even possible with the huge retcon

Beast was with Avengers, that is it.

Actually, Claremont decided not to bring back Cyclops right away after his merge with Apocolyspe and assumed death in Davis run because he wanted to develop Jean Grey without him and focused on her relationship with Cable. I'm pretty sure it was in an interview either on here or Comix-Fan. Atleast from what I remember. Probably because he didn't like the Jean/Scott marriage in the first place. If he is saying this I think he is talking about how he felt in the beginning? He obviously enjoyed writing her despite his feelings about her original resurrection. I'm pretty sure he wasn't thrilled with Jean being replaced by Emma despite her making appearances in Uncanny (Reload/XSE). But then I also remember his lack of sympathy for Rachel later on when he had Emma give her tough love. I don't know if thats because he saw the silver lining in Emma because it broke up Scott/Jean. And Rachel was a product of the Jean/Scott marriage in Rachels time-line and he decided Rachel would drop her Summers name for Grey. But then I've always found information on Claremont conflicting. And sometimes what is in the comics.

He also had POC in his X-Men run in Revolution when he brought back Bishop there. Ororo, Cecilia, Neil and Dani were also getting focus. And Betsy if you counted her as Asian.

[AbnormallyNormal]

The retcon has her looking like a manipulative deceptive person. She essentially used Xavier and Magneto as well as others for her own ends, and she continues to withhold important information from Charles and Erik. She used Joe Mctaggart to produce Proteus as a tool/weapon for mutants and had Xavier do the same with Gabrielle Haller to produce Legion. Does this woman even care about her son or does she see him as a means to an end? Now I'm sure many will defend her actions as 100% necessary for the survival of mutantkind, but I'm sure if this was anyone else perpetrating these actions people would be crucifying them. Hell look at all the criticism that someone like Beast have gotten for his actions in the past. Actions like being a member of the Illuminati who were doing things to save all existence, he was and continues to be raked over the coals for things he did then. Moira has done basically the same if not worst and is praised for it. Why praise one and condemn the other?

I completely agree with you. Moira to me is a tortured fractured psyche who probably believes she is trying her best but has a hopeless and nihilistic outlook. She is prime villain material in every way

[Triniking1234]

I think the only thing it cheapens is X-Men 108. That story no longer makes sense now with this Shiar Golem retcon.

Xavier mind links with Moira during her last moments and wants to die with her until Cable & Jean intervene. Doesn't make sense with a shiar golem.

True. Moira is one of the most valuable X-Men characters but there was probably walls preventing her return especially since she was normal human.
The Shi'Ar golem thing kinda falls flat since Hickman never went into details on why Charles risked his life to save a dummy and it also fooled Jean and Cable so hopefully Hickman goes into more detail in the future.

At least it's a better retcon than Carol Danvers' mum being a Kree.

[PrezValentine]

Not really. I think there’s plenty of people who didn’t really care about Moira that felt the impact of the revelation.

I'm one of those. Never gave a damn about her, but I actually got interested in this current iteration of hers. She's a way more interesting character for me now, considering her new story and character we've seen of her so far.

[Steel Inquisitor]

True. Moira is one of the most valuable X-Men characters but there was probably walls preventing her return especially since she was normal human.
The Shi'Ar golem thing kinda falls flat since Hickman never went into details on why Charles risked his life to save a dummy and it also fooled Jean and Cable so hopefully Hickman goes into more detail in the future.

At least it's a better retcon than Carol Danvers' mum being a Kree.

Hang on, who at Marvel has prevented Moira from returning because she was human?

[Omega Alpha]

The original story had her being raped and then she got pregnant, I don't see how this is even possible with the huge retcon

Of course it is, she knew about Joe Mactaggert's genetic code, not that he was a rapist.

[davetvs]

Let's be serious, almost nobody cared about Moira before House of X, especially after so many years of death.

/endthread

How dare Hickman defile the sanctity of an irrelevant character by making her important!

[Havok83]

The original story had her being raped and then she got pregnant, I don't see how this is even possible with the huge retcon

Beast was with Avengers, that is it.

The retcon doesnt change that. She loved him at some point and married him. She was having sex with him with the intention of having his child. This doesnt negate him beating her and sexually asaulting her when she decided she wanted out

[Alan2099]

The retcon doesnt change that. She loved him at some point and married him. She was having sex with him with the intention of having his child. This doesnt negate him beating her and sexually asaulting her when she decided she wanted out

It does change the fact that she purposely sought him out with the intention of having his child instead of actually just meeting the guy falling for him and then realizing how bad he was.

[CRaymond]

I like what Moira X is doing fur HoXPoX, but I’m sad for Marvel to have lost its first and for the longest-time only human female genius. That’s the whole jist.

That all said, I’d ALL IN on the MCU bringing back Rose Byrne in old lady makeup to explain away that she reset the Fox timeline and created the MCU. That’d be a huge whaaaaaaa

[Havok83]

I like what Moira X is doing fur HoXPoX, but I’m sad for Marvel to have lost its first and for the longest-time only human female genius. That’s the whole jist.

That all said, I’d ALL IN on the MCU bringing back Rose Byrne in old lady makeup to explain away that she reset the Fox timeline and created the MCU. That’d be a huge whaaaaaaa

That wouldnt make any sense to connect the two universes. If the Foxverse is accepted as canon then the X-men we know should also be old in the MCU if its to be set in present day alongside the other movies.

[CRaymond]

That wouldnt make any sense to connect the two universes. If the Foxverse is accepted as canon then the X-men we know should also be old in the MCU if its to be set in present day alongside the other movies.

As though the time travel in Endgame made sense. I'm not going to worry about it, just lean back enjoy the callbacks.