I’m still mad about what’s been done to Moira MacTaggert.

[houndsofluv]

I think until we get Moira's book, I can't really judge if this change is good or bad for her as a character. .

agreed. we're still so early into the run , we don't really know the full extent of Moira's role in the story

How can this be retconned away in the future? That’s my issue. Hickman made it awfully hard to retcon this away in the future.

don't mean to pile on but I have to echo the sentiment of other posters asking why this should be retconned - in a lot of early interviews Hickman talked a lot about being "additive" instead of "destructive" as a writer, aiming to build off of what's established to create new stores with new stakes . What he did with Moira is additive to me, kind of like a new coat of paint lol . I don't know why someone would want to completely undo the development, why not work with it? Maybe someone will use it to explore some of the concerns you have with how it affects her past

[From The Shadows]

don't mean to pile on but I have to echo the sentiment of other posters asking why this should be retconned - in a lot of early interviews Hickman talked a lot about being "additive" instead of "destructive" as a writer, aiming to build off of what's established to create new stores with new stakes . What he did with Moira is additive to me, kind of like a new coat of paint lol . I don't know why someone would want to completely undo the development, why not work with it? Maybe someone will use it to explore some of the concerns you have with how it affects her past

That is very admirable and I've wanted authors to take this approach again for years but how is Moira's identity being stripped away from her not destructive? .

T

[Steel Inquisitor]

Hickman already addressed this. The nature of her powers make her difficult to detect and read bc she is an anomaly. Destiny's ability to see the future got around that. I dont believe Xavier has done anything to mask her

This calls into question whether current Moira is a mutant, every mutant has the x-gene and is detectable by various methods.

[spirit2011]

That is very admirable and I've wanted authors to take this approach again for years but how is Moira's identity being stripped away from her not destructive? .

T

It is a bit destructive. Moira having secret agenda is also destructive

[Vishop]

C'mon, if you like the change then just say that but don't say hardly no one cared about her because she has been dead so long then you might as well say that for Jean Grey. And don't say she wasn't ever really a human ally just because you find her more interesting now. She always made the top of the list when it came to the X-Men's human support characters/allies and there would be a thread almost every year about it and how much she has been missed. Even more recently. There are even more obscure characters than this with a fanbase. I was excited for Moira's return. Not so much now.

And I don't understand what the big idea is about people wanting something being retconned, when every one has a list I'm sure. Draco anyone?, Mystique/Xavier anyone? Wolverine being an original X-Man, Romulus anyone? The entire fanbase wants to be pleased. And if people thought Moira was boring and unimportant they won't mind because it pleases them just like Hickmans new status quo. Lets not pretend this is anything outrageous.

I think you are going way off put to compare her with Jean Grey. Her fandom was still intact because she was an important character. Moira as a human character is crucial no doubt but let's be honest in the end she is just a side character to Charles and that is barely got recognition more than what Claremont did.

There are tons of atrocious retcons that happened to X-Men before. My biggest was Deadly Genesis but then again people don't give squat about Vulcan when he appears in comics.

This retcon barely holds a candle towards them because it has more or less a neutral side towards X-Men rather than anything negative.

[From The Shadows]

I think you are going way off put to compare her with Jean Grey. Her fandom was still intact because she was an important character. Moira as a human character is crucial no doubt but let's be honest in the end she is just a side character to Charles and that is barely got recognition more than what Claremont did.

There are tons of atrocious retcons that happened to X-Men before. My biggest was Deadly Genesis but then again people don't give squat about Vulcan when he appears in comics.

This retcon barely holds a candle towards them because it has more or less a neutral side towards X-Men rather than anything negative.

I never said she was as important as Jean Grey. Very few characters are as important as her really. Also, I don't ignore what has happened outside of Claremont.

[gambitxremy]

I think it’s dope what Hickman has done.
I’m just glad we’re all getting good x-men stories again

[AbnormallyNormal]

If you're mad that X-Men/mutantkind generally don't have special human allies anymore, this retcon isn't to blame honestly

Their human allies went away LONG, LONG before this. So it's misguided and you should be instead intrigued that one of the characters you're into is back and in a new "form". Just try to accept it for what it's meant to be, or idk figure something out in your head to make it good for you. Like I said already, I totally agree it's basically impossible to reconcile this new Moira with the old and you do indeed basically have to just accept the new one and try not to think too hard about the old version. I also agree there are much worse retcons that have been made, and I further agree that fans are free to pick and choose in their own headcanons what to accept or what to reject and to what degree of either.

[Steel Inquisitor]

If you're mad that X-Men/mutantkind generally don't have special human allies anymore, this retcon isn't to blame honestly

But it is continuing it, separating them further than ever away from humanity. How is this a good development?

Their human allies went away LONG, LONG before this. So it's misguided and you should be instead intrigued that one of the characters you're into is back and in a new "form". Just try to accept it for what it's meant to be, or idk figure something out in your head to make it good for you. Like I said already, I totally agree it's basically impossible to reconcile this new Moira with the old and you do indeed basically have to just accept the new one and try not to think too hard about the old version.

Sounds to much like justifying not looking at the faults in the storyline rather than accepting the cracks in the setting which have unpleasant undertones. Have you thought that this may not be an accident with Hickman's storytelling? This Moira is very different from the one we knew, she only became a mutant ally because Destiny burnt her alive unlike the human version who did it out of good intentions. The various lives she's lived have taken a heavy toll on her psychologically and not all of it is good.

I also agree there are much worse retcons that have been made, and I further agree that fans are free to pick and choose in their own headcanons what to accept or what to reject and to what degree of either.

Worse retcons in the past shouldn't mean people can't complain about this one. Sure, as long as they accept Marvel has the final say in canon.

[Zelena]

Let's be serious, almost nobody cared about Moira before House of X, especially after so many years of death.

I don't like this idea that, for Marvel authors, death is a fridge that keeps characters frozen, ready to be used later.
Now, not only they are resurrected, but now, they come back changed, like zombies, with a different personnality, and the story is even changing what they have been, rewriting their legend.

There’s talk about Claremont being angry about Hickman’s run but of course he hates anything x men that changed what he did. But I have to believe Moira is the major source of his dislike of it.

Probably…

[Glio]

Claremont absolutely hates everything he hasn't written so there comes a point where his opinion is downright irrelevant.

[houndsofluv]

That is very admirable and I've wanted authors to take this approach again for years but how is Moira's identity being stripped away from her not destructive? .

T

It is a bit destructive. Moira having secret agenda is also destructive

I think this just comes down to interpretation. I didn't read Hox/PoX as Hickman intending to take anything away from Moira - her feelings for everyone who passed through her life weren't faked there's just a new layer of history to consider them with. This new layer definitely doesn't match up with all of Moira's history but I found it surprisingly congruent with most of it.

Like I said though that was my own interpretation and every reader is gonna engage with it differently. I still think we should to wait to see how Hickman's run plays out before we say with any concreteness how Moira's character was impacted - she's only had one definite appearance in DOX (which is crazy to think of lol)

[JasmineW]

Claremont absolutely hates everything he hasn't written so there comes a point where his opinion is downright irrelevant.

Surely he liked District X and the 12 issues of the Mystique ongoing?

[Omega Alpha]

Let's be serious, almost nobody cared about Moira before House of X, especially after so many years of death.

Exactly. "Oh, yeah, I LOVE Moira so much I prefer her to stay dead after being stupidly murdered in a story almost no one read rather than have her become arguably the most important character in the X-men and even the Marvel Universe as a whole".

I’ll just add one more thing. Having a character be more relevant now doesn’t automatically mean the character is better now. I’d rather have Moira in the background the way she was then having her be at the forefront In HOX/POX. .

She was not in the background then. She was dead, unused and irrelevant 20 years now.

C'mon, if you like the change then just say that but don't say hardly no one cared about her because she has been dead so long then you might as well say that for Jean Grey.

Moira's role in the franchise was much smaller, and she was killed in a story almost no one read.

[Soulsword323]

I adore Moira. Always have. She was such a great support character, with a number of meaningful relationships with other X-Men. I've been hoping she'd return for some time now, and I'm fine with what's been done with her. Has it made some of the X-World's past a bit messy? Sure, but that's what happens when you do something big like this. Hickman took Moira from an obscure character, to THE most important player in the X-Men's lineup. She's been carrying this franchise on her back for decades, and we didn't even know. How can you not love this legend? Moira X's powers at this point is just utilizing information of the past, and that doesn't radically change her role. She was always there for her knowledge, and what Hickman's done hasn't really taken her out of that role, but instead just puts her on the level of Xavier and Magneto.