I’m still mad about what’s been done to Moira MacTaggert.

[spirit2011]

I think this just comes down to interpretation. I didn't read Hox/PoX as Hickman intending to take anything away from Moira - her feelings for everyone who passed through her life weren't faked there's just a new layer of history to consider them with. This new layer definitely doesn't match up with all of Moira's history but I found it surprisingly congruent with most of it.

Like I said though that was my own interpretation and every reader is gonna engage with it differently. I still think we should to wait to see how Hickman's run plays out before we say with any concreteness how Moira's character was impacted - she's only had one definite appearance in DOX (which is crazy to think of lol)

maybe she liked the characters it is hard to say. For example we still don't see her caring or loving Banshee or Rahne.
She hidden a really big secret from everyone, so every interaction on the past have a really big elephant on the room

I adore Moira. Always have. She was such a great support character, with a number of meaningful relationships with other X-Men. I've been hoping she'd return for some time now, and I'm fine with what's been done with her. Has it made some of the X-World's past a bit messy? Sure, but that's what happens when you do something big like this. Hickman took Moira from an obscure character, to THE most important player in the X-Men's lineup. She's been carrying this franchise on her back for decades, and we didn't even know. How can you not love this legend? Moira X's powers at this point is just utilizing information of the past, and that doesn't radically change her role. She was always there for her knowledge, and what Hickman's done hasn't really taken her out of that role, but instead just puts her on the level of Xavier and Magneto.

That is what Hickman's want but that is not what happened. The truth that she became a fake person, hiding the truth and her purpose from everyone not named magneto ou Xavier

[Soulsword323]

I feel like HoX and PoX contradict that statement, Spirit. And, we know the reason why she chooses to operate behind the scenes.

[spirit2011]

I feel like HoX and PoX contradict that statement, Spirit. And, we know the reason why she chooses to operate behind the scenes.

she faked her death and left Banshee and everyone thinking she was dead for a long time

[Soulsword323]

she faked her death and left Banshee and everyone thinking she was dead for a long time

I know, but I was talking about how you said she hasn't been carrying the franchise on her back. You said that's what Hickman wants, but not what happened. She's had a major influence on relationships, and how Xavier and Magneto have operated over the years. Her ideas and knowledge are what made Krakoa possible. Everything's been leading to this, and that's all because of Moira knowledge and plans.

[spirit2011]

I know, but I was talking about how you said she hasn't been carrying the franchise on her back. You said that's what Hickman wants, but not what happened. She's had a major influence on relationships, and how Xavier and Magneto have operated over the years. Her ideas and knowledge are what made Krakoa possible. Everything's been leading to this, and that's all because of Moira knowledge and plans.

Well he had to make a really major retcon for that happens, really change everything about the character.
I don't really like retcons these big, "oh everything you know is wrong"

[Alan2099]

he's been carrying this franchise on her back for decades, and we didn't even know. How can you not love this legend?

Because it tells me that the character we grew attached to as well as many of the events we saw was just a lie.

Having her behind all this requires you to have previously cared about the character for the impact to work, but at the same time they're telling you the character you cared about was just an act.

This new layer definitely doesn't match up with all of Moira's history but I found it surprisingly congruent with most of it.

Not only does it not much up with her history, it doesn't match up with the entire point of the character.

[Criticalfan]

I liked the "new" Moira, especially how it was told, but Alan2099's post above mine is the counter argument that made the greatest impact on my feelings about it.

Note: the "mutant" Moira still did everything that the "human "one did (in life 10). It didn't erase actual events.

[Vishop]

I never said she was as important as Jean Grey. Very few characters are as important as her really. Also, I don't ignore what has happened outside of Claremont.

You might not but then most x-men fans in CBR didn't really care to comment on Humans allies back before in one of the human allies threads and all of a sudden lots of fans are jumping over seats whenever she got mentioned each and every time, therefore, let's not get carried away over this retcon.

X-Men have full of big and atrocious retcons to those significant comics that most fans don't really much care about this either. This retcon isn't really big thing compared to them.

[Omega Alpha]

Well he had to make a really major retcon for that happens, really change everything about the character.
I don't really like retcons these big, "oh everything you know is wrong"

That applies to Magneto and Xavier's relationship, for example. Hell, Moira's own existence as essential to the X-men behind the scenes, even before Hickman, was a hitcon.

[houndsofluv]

Because it tells me that the character we grew attached to as well as many of the events we saw was just a lie.

Having her behind all this requires you to have previously cared about the character for the impact to work, but at the same time they're telling you the character you cared about was just an act.


Not only does it not much up with her history, it doesn't match up with the entire point of the character.

I wish that there was more on-page content addressing Moira's feelings for her loved ones given the reveal too - frankly I think there just wasn't space . Thats why I hope her ongoing comes out sooner than later to shed some light on the further implications of the retcon and what it means for her as a character.

I just don't see why we have to assume all her interactions up to this point were fake - I'm not saying she didn't obviously deceive everyone but so did Charles and Magneto and no one's saying their characters have been irreparably destroyed and that they don't care for the people they've been shown to love for years

In regards to Moira's role, lets face it, that role was donezo. She had no presence whatsoever in the books for years and the x-men haven't exactly been brimming with human allies . Hickman gave her a new role, a huge and explosive and integral role. She has a new point now because the old on was basically forfeit

[Steel Inquisitor]

In regards to Moira's role, lets face it, that role was donezo. She had no presence whatsoever in the books for years and the x-men haven't exactly been brimming with human allies . Hickman gave her a new role, a huge and explosive and integral role. She has a new point now because the old on was basically forfeit

All she needed was writers who cared about her and be allowed to use her, which Hickman provided. It'd be a snap to bring her back and put her in some sort of role, Hickman just did it first. Same goes for any human that used to be in the supporting cast. They can retcon Moira back to being human and alive once Hickman leaves, as well.

[TheDeadSpace]

For me, I'm happy that the character was brought back into importance. It was also done in a way that maintained Xavier and Magneto's importance as well. However, the problem for me with everything, is the fact that she's more of a plot device than anything in the current era. She set up this story and will (apparently) return to get things moving once again. With that in mind, I can't really say she's a favorite of mine. I think this new Moira still needs fleshing out.

Then again, that's just me.

[gambitxremy]

So Moira told Xavier who to have children with. I would love to see her comic shed more info on that

[H-E-D]

Having her behind all this requires you to have previously cared about the character for the impact to work , but at the same time they're telling you the character you cared about was just an act.

Not really. I think there’s plenty of people who didn’t really care about Moira that felt the impact of the revelation.

[From The Shadows]

Exactly. "Oh, yeah, I LOVE Moira so much I prefer her to stay dead after being stupidly murdered in a story almost no one read rather than have her become arguably the most important character in the X-men and even the Marvel Universe as a whole".

Who said they wanted her dead? Who was saying anything even remotely like this? Are you quoting someone? Perhaps I just missed this? Why does she even have to be a mutant to play a bigger role? She had quite a bit of focus in Excalibur.

Moira's role in the franchise was much smaller, and she was killed in a story almost no one read.

I remember things differently at the time. Sales actually went up at the time when CC returned. Especially his adjectiveless X-Men book - That was the book Moira died in. People were furious.

Surely he liked District X and the 12 issues of the Mystique ongoing?

He liked Bishop enough to bring back from his haitus due to being trapped in another time stream, he didn't mind bringing back Cecilia too and he definitely had a story in mind with her. Unfortunately he got sidelined (again) so Morrison could revitalize the X-Men and while I enjoyed a lot of it I wish CC could have finished his run first. And there was nothing not to like about District X. I at least remember that he liked Joss Whedon's X-Men. So I wouldn't be surprised if he did. I loved all the books at that time (well, I wasn't overly fond of Milligans run but it was better than Austens). I hate that the House of M happened. I loved that era.

He also wanted Marrow on the team. I forgot the reason why he couldn't use her.

That said, I don't really think the anger started until Cyclops was pushed to the forefront. In his mind I think he felt Ororo's character and importance had been diminished. The same with Jean too. And I think he blames this for jeans death.