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  1. #1
    Kurtty Fan Slicknickshady's Avatar
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    Default I’m still mad about what’s been done to Moira MacTaggert.

    Her history has been cheapened.

    I mean I don’t know how else to say it diplomatically. The fact her having 10 life’s or whatever just cheapens her history and back story. The Joe MacTaggert stuff and Proteus and her connection with Wolfsbane .. sigh. This Hickman decision will be tough to retcon away.

  2. #2
    Grizzled Veteran Jackraow21's Avatar
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    I don’t think it cheapens it. Quite the opposite actually. It makes her as important, if not more so, to the founding of the X-men and the X-mythos as Magneto and probably Xavier too. If anything it adds tremendously to her backstory. Just my opinion, of course.

    Personally I’d love to understand how her early dealings with Cable, when he first came back to this era, helped to shape her current plans. There’s definitely a story there.

  3. #3
    Astonishing Member Zelena's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jackraow21 View Post
    I don’t think it cheapens it. Quite the opposite actually. It makes her as important, if not more so, to the founding of the X-men and the X-mythos as Magneto and probably Xavier too. If anything it adds tremendously to her backstory. Just my opinion, of course.

    Personally I’d love to understand how her early dealings with Cable, when he first came back to this era, helped to shape her current plans. There’s definitely a story there.
    Moira MacTaggert was already important to the founding of the X-men. What would Charles Xavier have done without her? And also one of the rare human friends the X-men have ever had.
    Now she's a mutant in a mutant comic book. How dull…
    “Strength is the lot of but a few privileged men; but austere perseverance, harsh and continuous, may be employed by the smallest of us and rarely fails of its purpose, for its silent power grows irresistibly greater with time.” Goethe

  4. #4
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    Because in DOX era, the antagonism between humans and mutants has risen to a whole new level. So moira's change actually fits the theme. And I think this change, Moira and X-Men gained far more than they lost.

  5. #5
    Astonishing Member BlkGldBlu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zelena View Post
    Moira MacTaggert was already important to the founding of the X-men. What would Charles Xavier have done without her? And also one of the rare human friends the X-men have ever had.
    Now she's a mutant in a mutant comic book. How dull…
    Yeah that's the only major downer the whole Hickman run. But I guess its the Sacrifice ones pays for such an awesome story.
    R.I.P Human Moria.
    Now I got to go reread it again, what's Moria Mutant Name?

  6. #6
    Invincible Member Havok83's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlkGldBlu View Post
    Yeah that's the only major downer the whole Hickman run. But I guess its the Sacrifice ones pays for such an awesome story.
    R.I.P Human Moria.
    Now I got to go reread it again, what's Moria Mutant Name?
    Moira X 10char

  7. #7
    BANNED JasmineW's Avatar
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    I think the only thing it cheapens is X-Men 108. That story no longer makes sense now with this Shiar Golem retcon.

    Xavier mind links with Moira during her last moments and wants to die with her until Cable & Jean intervene. Doesn't make sense with a shiar golem.

  8. #8
    Mighty Member Malachi's Avatar
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    Well it certainly cheapens several aspects. The trope of turning the nonpowered character into a powered one who now, thanks to the power, is essential to the story. It's a bit cheap and it's effect is diminishing.

    Still Hickman's story seems intruiging and it's fun that Moira is a part of it. Certainly more so because she has been dead and now she isn't. Still it's rewards are probably more short term then long term. Turning lovers, friends, family into active power users/villians usually hollows out the story from inside.

    I was more fond of her history with non-charles characters. Especially Sean. This seems to twist those parts out of shape.

    EDIT: I will try to make a metaphor.

    Consider the X-men line as a big buffe of different foods. You have different countires cuisines there. As an example Wolverine is the hamburger. Loved by many. More so by some and less by others. Still an overall crowdpleaser. Sometimes you get the fastfood version, The Mcdonalds Wolverine. Sometimes you get the intricate layered perfect burger that reminds you why you love a hamburger. So much that it's ok to eat the fastfood version for some time. In the end it's hard for many to eat hamburgers every week but for some it's something they can eat for the rest of their life. Normally though humans crave variety. That's why X-men stories with Wolverine and Cyclops or any other overused character becomes stale. It's hard to keep them the same but varied so you can eat it every week without growing tired.

    In theis metaphor Moira is akin to a condiment. Sometimes it can tie the whole dish together. Usually you don't use it in every dish. A personal favorite for some. What Hickman has done is taken, say Tumeric=Moira, and made a whole 11 dishes experience where tumeric is used in new ways. What he did was mixed tumeric with salt. All the tumeric is now mixed with salt. It can't be used the way it used to be used but it offers a new flavor. New possibilites.

    Since he used all the tumeric some new chef would have to get in there and sort the salt flakes out by hand. Not something most chefs do so we are now stuck with Tumeric-salt. For me who likes indian dishes and eat them often. It's sad that Tumeric is now gone. Some dishes just doesn't work without it. Some might be modified to fit this new tumeric-salt. Overall it cheapens the world of food for me, even though I'm liking the new food and the possibilites it brings with it. It's just hard to replace tumeric with some other spice. Very few spices that tastes like it. Now if Hickman somehow managed to find a replacement that would be aces. Difficult task though.

    Haha I had to attempt this metaphor. Silly as it is.
    Last edited by Malachi; 04-24-2020 at 11:22 AM.

  9. #9
    House of Frost NewMutant's Avatar
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    The main aspect of that hurts the character is that she was the human ally. And that is an important role. But she's been dead forever anyways... so there's an easy argument that its irrelevant anyways. This brings her back in a major way at least.
    I was trying to do too much and not doing any of it as well as I could. But I've had a change of mind... though not everyone shall enjoy it. I will.

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  10. #10
    Extraordinary Member Glio's Avatar
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    Let's be serious, almost nobody cared about Moira before House of X, especially after so many years of death.

  11. #11
    Astonishing Member gambitxremy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jackraow21 View Post
    I don’t think it cheapens it. Quite the opposite actually. It makes her as important, if not more so, to the founding of the X-men and the X-mythos as Magneto and probably Xavier too. If anything it adds tremendously to her backstory. Just my opinion, of course.

    Personally I’d love to understand how her early dealings with Cable, when he first came back to this era, helped to shape her current plans. There’s definitely a story there.
    I totally agree with you.
    Also I love that a woman help make and start the x-men. She is even more important then Xavier is

  12. #12
    Grizzled Veteran Jackraow21's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Glio View Post
    Let's be serious, almost nobody cared about Moira before House of X, especially after so many years of death.
    Agreed. Now she’s actually important. Extremely so.

    Quote Originally Posted by gambitxremy View Post
    I totally agree with you.
    Also I love that a woman help make and start the x-men. She is even more important then Xavier is
    My thinking exactly. I still want to know more about her and Cable’s interactions too when he first came back. I’m thinking he may have played an even bigger role in this as well, considering his future knowledge and hers from her other lives.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jackraow21 View Post
    I don’t think it cheapens it. Quite the opposite actually. It makes her as important, if not more so, to the founding of the X-men and the X-mythos as Magneto and probably Xavier too. If anything it adds tremendously to her backstory. Just my opinion, of course.

    Personally I’d love to understand how her early dealings with Cable, when he first came back to this era, helped to shape her current plans. There’s definitely a story there.
    Especially because Cable grew up in a timeline where mutants defeated humans, even after they used technology to enhance themselves (see Liefeld's Helix) similar to posthumans.

  14. #14
    Astonishing Member AbnormallyNormal's Avatar
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    I think it just radically changes her. Like it takes a massive suspension of disbelief to go back re-read Moira issues and believe in the current status quo explanation. It's tough to do for sure.

    And there is definitely the question of her relationship with Banshee which has gone 100% unexplored thus far in DoX. Has she even spoken with her own son Proteus once? I mean wtf.

    there's a reason I essentially view her as an antagonist, she doesn't come off as particularly empathetic

    BTW I enjoyed that food metaphor but I wish you carried it further and went into more characters/themes haha
    Forget the old ways - Krakoa is god.

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  15. #15
    Astonishing Member gambitxremy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jackraow21 View Post
    Agreed. Now she’s actually important. Extremely so.



    My thinking exactly. I still want to know more about her and Cable’s interactions too when he first came back. I’m thinking he may have played an even bigger role in this as well, considering his future knowledge and hers from her other lives.

    Omg me to. It would be perfect to know that the older cable was in all of this from the beginning. It gives his mission with hope even more importants then it already does

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