I’m still mad about what’s been done to Moira MacTaggert.

[Slicknickshady]

I am enjoying the discussion in this thread. Still have my same opinion but at least some of you have gave me other ways to think about this but I just always go back to it changes her way too much.

And I’m not saying it will be retconned and I never assume anything will be retconned. What I’m saying is some things can be retconned away very simply. With a simple move by a writer. This would be tougher to do then again they could just pull a Hickman and retcon it away and don’t end up explaining it.

But yes. Her book if it happens gives him the chance to do that and make it more understandable. Still have her endearing. Right now it makes her seem manipulative.

But hey nothing wrong with characters becoming more complex. Just wish it didn’t cheapen her past.

Really enjoying your thoughts.

[Stormultt Divine]

Her history has been cheapened.

....To YOU


And the constant complaining about what's clearly made the X-verse way more entertaining than it has been in years is...very tiring now.

[Alan2099]

....To YOU


And the constant complaining about what's clearly made the X-verse way more entertaining

More entertaining To YOU.

See how that works both ways?

Some of us find the current status quo to be really horrible.

[Maniacal]

Xmen was getting so stale... and I blame editorial for either NOT allowing long-term plans to become fully realized... or making promises to big names... too many voices pulling in different directions. Having Hickman come in with an umbrella story line... that everyone plays in... as long as they follow the master plan has been great.

[Steel Inquisitor]

/endthread

How dare Hickman defile the sanctity of an irrelevant character by making her important!

Every character has fans, they're not obligated to like everything the writers do to them. Moira's not even that obscure, she had big roles in the recent films at the box office, played by Rose Byrne. How are you judging irrelevant? There are numerous mutants who fit that category at any given time, but because Moira's a human she should be left untouched by editorial nobody should care about her once she died? Doesn't work like that.

[lemonpeace]

I grew up watching various X-Men shows and media even before I picked up a comics, she was never that important unless you were a hardcore X-fan; and even then she was still a niche peripheral character. it's pretty intellectually dishonest to claim her character has been "cheapened" because it implies her character (the occasional "super special" human ally) had significant overall value to the franchise in a way she simply didn't.

[Steel Inquisitor]

I grew up watching various X-Men shows and media even before I picked up a comics, she was never that important unless you were a hardcore X-fan; and even then she was still a niche peripheral character. it's pretty intellectually dishonest to claim her character has been "cheapened" because it implies her character (the occasional "super special" human ally) had significant overall value to the franchise in a way she simply didn't.

Being a fan of a character has nothing to do with how "important" they are, or what species they belong to. I like characters like Omega Sentinel, Marrow and Cecilia Reyes - none of them are what I'd call "important" to the X-line like the main stars are. Moira would have more significance then them all put together given how she's a supporting character in the X-films and they're not. It's an arbitrary justification to write her off because Moira happened to be human.

[spirit2011]

It does change the fact that she purposely sought him out with the intention of having his child instead of actually just meeting the guy falling for him and then realizing how bad he was.

It would be a lot simple not marry him and just have hismaterial to be inseminated artificially. and one of Moira lives she became a assassin, so this story with Joe became even more unlikely

[Omega Alpha]

The one explanation I can think of her remaining with Joe, rather than just divorcing or killing him off is that Moira wanted to use him- he was a MP, so perhaps in another life he rose to Prime-Minister, or Moira thought he could with her at his side.

[Slicknickshady]

....To YOU


And the constant complaining about what's clearly made the X-verse way more entertaining than it has been in years is...very tiring now.

.

Lol. No.

More entertaining To YOU.

See how that works both ways?

Some of us find the current status quo to be really horrible.

Agreed. Gold was way better. Blue was way better. Uncanny by Rosenberg was way better.

[From The Shadows]

....To YOU


And the constant complaining about what's clearly made the X-verse way more entertaining than it has been in years is...very tiring now.

There are plenty of threads devoted to Krakoa so I don't see the problem. And no one has been disrespectful from what I've seen.

/endthread

How dare Hickman defile the sanctity of an irrelevant character by making her important!

The word irrelevant is quite possibly the most abused word in the last ten years. Though, I don't hear it much outside the internet. Its not only used in a dismissive way its usually used to stifle individual opinion. And if people can't handle different views in "discussion" forums of all places I don't know what to say. Writers are going to have to keep topping each other with forced earth shattering revelations rather than focusing on character development. If you can't see the value in support roles I'm afraid I just don't understand it. In TV and film good supporting characters can really enhance and bring humanity to a story. Perhaps its a lost art. I've seen writers downgraded for not seeming important enough. And good ones too If this was the view when Moira was first introduced she would probably have been killed off after a few issues and we wouldn't be able to have this discussion.

[Criticalfan]

Slicknickshady, I'm curious... What about HoX#2 made you give it 4* in the poll in its recap thread, if you hated what that issue did to the character?

[Havok83]

It would be a lot simple not marry him and just have hismaterial to be inseminated artificially. and one of Moira lives she became a assassin, so this story with Joe became even more unlikely

She's still a person with emotions and feelings. She married him bc she fell in love. What does she having ben an assassin have much to do with anything? Assassins can fall into relationships as well.

The one explanation I can think of her remaining with Joe, rather than just divorcing or killing him off is that Moira wanted to use him- he was a MP, so perhaps in another life he rose to Prime-Minister, or Moira thought he could with her at his side.

Moira didnt stay with Joe. She left him but he refused to divorce her bc it benefited his political career. They were only married on paper, but both were living separate lives.

[CoCoBandz]

.

Lol. No.



Agreed. Gold was way better. Blue was way better. Uncanny by Rosenberg was way better.

That last part has to be trolling.

[lemonpeace]

Being a fan of a character has nothing to do with how "important" they are, or what species they belong to. I like characters like Omega Sentinel, Marrow and Cecilia Reyes - none of them are what I'd call "important" to the X-line like the main stars are. Moira would have more significance then them all put together given how she's a supporting character in the X-films and they're not. It's an arbitrary justification to write her off because Moira happened to be human.

I wasn't writing Moira off because she's human, I didn't notice her existence enough to write her off in the first place, I'm saying she WAS written off because she wasn't significantly important to the overall X-franchise beyond being "one of the the good ones". my point is, it's intellectually dishonest to say her character is "cheapened" by her being put in a new position where she is objectively more important to the X-Men franchise because, at the end of the day, her character value is enhanced by her new situation. the fact that i (and likely most of the general consumers of X-Men content) could watch X-men media for years and barely, if at all, register her presence in them is pretty indicative of how "valueable" she was as a character to the X-Men; which is to say, not very.

being a fan of a relatively insignificant character doesn't make the character overall more significant (besides to the individual personally), nor was that the point of what I was saying. you can argue she was more important that as many G-list characters as you want, you can say you don't like the direction, but being largely non-essential in the films or tv shows doesn't change the fact that she was significantly less important to the franchise before than she is in the supposedly "cheapened state" she's in now.