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  1. #46
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    Just do it like the incredibles movie

    reed, johnny and ben notice sue's been keeping her aspirations locked away to care for the family. Show that both franklin and valeria are old and powerful/intelligent enough to take care of themselves anyway. So they take up the slack for her while she gets some sort of education, maybe private tutoring.

  2. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by gurkle View Post
    Right, so I don't see why they then feel the need to make a character a professional scientist before they can talk about science.

    Or rather, I do know: science, unlike superpowers, is something that exists in real life and it doesn't send a good message to show amateurs knowing as much about science as professionals. But science in superhero comics is functionally identical to magic, and just as there are characters who use magic without a lot of formal training I think the FF have basically had enough on-the-job training that they could get away with taking some of the science talk away from Reed.
    The characters who use magic without a lot of formal training are usually depicted as being very limited in what they can do compared to experts. And if the FF are a science exploration team, it makes no sense to only have one scientist on the team. This dynamic might have worked in the 1960s but we've come a long way since then. Furthermore, Sue still remains the only member of the team without some kind of education that she contributes. Johnny is a mechanic and Ben is a pilot.
    Last edited by Agent Z; 04-26-2020 at 11:07 PM.

  3. #48
    Incredible Member ARkadelphia's Avatar
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    She should be an anarchist, an architect, THEN an archaeologist. As long as she never becomes the anti-Christ, I’m good though.
    “The Scarlet Witch is the only thing that will scare them. It’s the only thing they’ll respect.” - Hope Summers, Avengers vs X-Men #7

  4. #49
    Astonishing Member JackDaw's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Z View Post
    The characters who use magic without a lot of formal training are usually depicted as being very limited in what they can do compared to experts. And if the FF are a science exploration team, it makes no sense to only have one scientist on the team. This dynamic might have worked in the 1960s but we've come a long way since then. Furthermore, Sue still remains the only member of the team without some kind of education that she contributes. Johnny is a mechanic and Ben is a pilot.
    I agree.

    The only thing I’d add is that although Ben and Johnny do have specialities their all round competence does need to be amped up considerably as well.

    And actually the seeds for doing that were there in the original Lee/Kirby run. When Johnny went to university he made it plain he didn’t want to just coast through..he wanted to get a good degree to make Ben and Reed proud of him.

    Similarly it was made clear that Ben’s “I don’t understand this” was often an act, that Ben actually had several degrees.

  5. #50
    Extraordinary Member Crimz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JackDaw View Post
    I agree.

    The only thing I’d add is that although Ben and Johnny do have specialities their all round competence does need to be amped up considerably as well.

    And actually the seeds for doing that were there in the original Lee/Kirby run. When Johnny went to university he made it plain he didn’t want to just coast through..he wanted to get a good degree to make Ben and Reed proud of him.

    Similarly it was made clear that Ben’s “I don’t understand this” was often an act, that Ben actually had several degrees.
    Yeah Ben is meant to be a great pilot, military man, and astronaut. These skills should be highlighted more on the teams adventures. Part of the problem is the way fiction handles geniuses. People say Reed is neglectful and absent minded to everything that's not scientific. So then why is he the one taking point and giving orders during expeditions? Shouldn't Ben be more qualified to lead during these times? It makes more sense for him to lead in unexeplored territories and make sure everyone makes it through safely.

    Sue, Ben, and Johnny should be more involved in the scientific exploration aspect of the team. It's main thing the team is about. Some say that even without powers the FF would still be out there exploring, but what do the other 3 bring to the team in that case? Things need to change and be more balanced as it will greatly benefit the characters.
    Last edited by Crimz; 04-28-2020 at 02:48 AM.
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  6. #51
    Fantastic Member Alphaxman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Crimz View Post
    Seeing as there are no new comics for a while and quarantine has got me bored, I decided to make this a thread.

    To begin, many writers have failed Sue in not giving her a particular field of expertise of wants and desires outside of the family like her male teammates do. It is sadly common with female heroes from the silver age. I believe that should change. As she will almost definitely have a career field in her MCU debut, 616 Sue should have had one decades ago.

    The filed that I believe suits her and her dynamic as a part of the Fantastic Four is being an archaeologist. But not just an archaeologist, but a Xeno-archaeologist which is a mostly fictional field as it involves alien cultures. This way it would encompass the more cosmic elements associated with the Fantastic Four and add an interesting spin to the field.
    Sue being an archaeologist fits the adventure aspect of her team and gives her more agency both in and out of it.
    Instead of it always being Reed dictating where the team goes for an adventure, Sue could find something on a dig or want to investigate a particular place. When you add the extra-terrestrial aspect to it, there are tons of interesting avenues to go with it.
    It's also a career that doesn't many Marvel heroes occupying it so she could truly make it her own that people associate with her. Which can't be said for her recent adventure as a spy which has many heroes associated with it. When you ask someone about heroes who are spies; Black Widow, Spider-Woman, Hawkeye, and Mockingbird would all spring to mind way before Sue.

    What I enjoy about the possibility is that Marvel already did it. In Fantastic Four: The End, a story that took place in a alt-future, Sue is an archaeologist and is on a cool Tomb Raider/Indiana Jones-like adventure. The prospect is already there and I think Marvel should do it.




    For Reed it's often about the science, but for Sue it's often about the people. The above shows how being an archaeologist could show that, with her being interested in the culture and what they could learn from it.
    I'm so down with this. I was in the 'medical doctor' camp, but being an archeologist and/or xeno-anthropologist would be perfect for Sue. Anything would be better than how she's being written now. She has gotten on my nerves lately, and she's my favorite member.

  7. #52
    Extraordinary Member Crimz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alphaxman View Post
    I'm so down with this. I was in the 'medical doctor' camp, but being an archeologist and/or xeno-anthropologist would be perfect for Sue. Anything would be better than how she's being written now. She has gotten on my nerves lately, and she's my favorite member.
    I'm assuming you're talking about X-Men/Fantastic Four? Because nothing has been done with her in the main Fantastic Four book...

    The problem in X4 is caused by her lack of development and utilization over the years. You'd think a character that's apparently so about their family would be the most integral voice from the FF side for Franklin, but she's not. She hasn't had a single interaction with Franklin throughout the book so far. But Reed and even Ben have. Reed's actions are what really set things off and how he handles things with Franklin is what it's going to come down to. Sue is put in her usual state when it comes to the kids; Mama Bear.

    That's why she needs more. It's not because being a mother is not enough or anything like that, but because she is underdeveloped in every aspect not to do with her powers. Writers think giving her a power-feat is enough to avoid negative comments of the treatment of the only female member of the team. It's been that way for years, that instead of real development Sue gets a feat. It's why every other member has a more interesting and complex relationship with the kids, even Doom has more. That's why she needs both better writing with her kids and something of her own that develops the character. I don't think this is the only role that achieves this or suits the character, but a role like this would make her hard to ignore both in and out of the Fantastic Four leading to more stories with her.

    That's also why I'm not a fan of business-type roles for her. Due to the nature of comics and what the genre focuses on it's a role that's easily ignored. Things would eventually go back to how things are now if that path is given to her.
    Last edited by Crimz; 04-28-2020 at 10:04 AM.
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  8. #53
    Latverian ambassador Iron Maiden's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Crimz View Post
    I'm assuming you're talking about X-Men/Fantastic Four? Because nothing has been done with her in the main Fantastic Four book...

    The problem in X4 is caused by her lack of development and utilization over the years. You'd think a character that's apparently so about their family would be the most integral voice from the FF side for Franklin, but she's not. She hasn't had a single interaction with Franklin throughout the book so far. But Reed and even Ben have. Reed's actions are what really set things off and how he handles things with Franklin is what it's going to come down to. Sue is put in her usual state when it comes to the kids; Mama Bear.

    That's why she needs more. It's not because being a mother is not enough or anything like that, but because she is underdeveloped in every aspect not to do with her powers. Writers think giving her a power-feat is enough to avoid negative comments of the treatment of the only female member of the team. It's been that way for years, that instead of real development Sue gets a feat. It's why every other member has a more interesting and complex relationship with the kids, even Doom has more. That's why she needs both better writing with her kids and something of her own that develops the character. I don't think this is the only role that achieves this or suits the character, but a role like this would make her hard to ignore both in and out of the Fantastic Four leading to more stories with her.
    I agree.....Sue's role should be ramped up as a parent too. Not enough is being done to show how the children are getting an education for example. I would hate to think that Reed just sits them in front of a console and they get educated that way. We saw more of a school setting when Hickman introduced the Future Foundation. That way there was some social interaction added as well. I'd still like to see a situation more like that instead of them being totally home schooled with Sue taking ownership of that.

  9. #54
    Extraordinary Member Crimz's Avatar
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    It's interesting how Sue is often assumed to be a genius scientist too by those not too familiar with the FF. Some have even wrote for Marvel lol.
    It's make the lack of a specified role even more sad to me.

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  10. #55
    Formerly Assassin Spider Huntsman Spider's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Crimz View Post
    It's interesting how Sue is often assumed to be a genius scientist too by those not too familiar with the FF. Some have even wrote for Marvel lol.
    It's make the lack of a specified role even more sad to me.

    Uh-huh. I remember this one being written by Tom Taylor, and yeah, you're right; Sue does need a more explicitly defined role in the 616 Fantastic Four, if only to stand out in her own right from the other three.
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