Sue Storm should be an archaeologist

[Zero Hunter]

I like your idea. In my head-canon, Sue was always the group's business manager, Ben the engineer (most astronauts were in the 60s) and Johnny an ace mechanic.

That is the way it should be. Sue is the one running the business side of the FF. Reed is way too absent minded to keep track of things like the daily business side of the FF. Sue is the one investing and managing the money, keeping the Baxter Building and any other properites they own up, and everything else that needs doing.

I don't really need Sue to have some "exciting" job like scientist, archaeologist, or doctor. She is the head of what I'm sure in the marvel U is a fortune 500 company. If they really want to show her growing then show her in a few board meetings for FF Inc or doing some projects to make the city a better place to live. The FF are rich as hell, and I'm sure Sue would be the first one out there using some of that money to help the community.

[JudicatorPrime]

Archaeologist, anthropologist … fine with any of these pursuits, as well as others.

[iron chimp]

People will remember the issues far better than me but im sure it was in John Byrne issue that he kind of answers this when sue goes on a talkshow hosted by a feminist who confronts her.

Whats wrong with being a mum? Its a specialised highly skilled job with fundamental consequences. Why shouldnt that be her skill?

[JudicatorPrime]

It's too late now...but the Fantastic Four might have been an even better comic IF Reed had never been written as an omni-genius on all aspects of science, and the other three had been written as having some speciality in which they were actually Reed's superior.

It's never too late for a great idea. Marvel just needs to start writing for the future generation of readers, many of whom would appreciate a team dynamic like that.

[JudicatorPrime]

Whats wrong with being a mum? Its a specialised highly skilled job with fundamental consequences. Why shouldnt that be her skill?

Reed's a father. Why can't he just be a Pa?

[Crimz]

That is the way it should be. Sue is the one running the business side of the FF. Reed is way too absent minded to keep track of things like the daily business side of the FF. Sue is the one investing and managing the money, keeping the Baxter Building and any other properites they own up, and everything else that needs doing.

I don't really need Sue to have some "exciting" job like scientist, archaeologist, or doctor. She is the head of what I'm sure in the marvel U is a fortune 500 company. If they really want to show her growing then show her in a few board meetings for FF Inc or doing some projects to make the city a better place to live. The FF are rich as hell, and I'm sure Sue would be the first one out there using some of that money to help the community.

I get it, but personally find it boring. The FF are about scientific adventure and I believe each of them should bring something to that outside if their superpowers. A more active career path is simply more interesting and provides more opportunities for both character development and storytelling, two things that the character needs. Running the business makes just as much sense as any proposed path for the character but it brings significantly less possibilities for stories and growth. As you said, a writer would only have to show it very occasionally, which means it's not a significant enough change imo. It doesn't do much for the character.

People will remember the issues far better than me but im sure it was in John Byrne issue that he kind of answers this when sue goes on a talkshow hosted by a feminist who confronts her.

Whats wrong with being a mum? Its a specialised highly skilled job with fundamental consequences. Why shouldnt that be her skill?

This doesn't suddenly make her no longer a mother. Why can't she be both like Reed is both a scientist and father? Why is her motherhood always brought up to limit what she could potentially do? Reed gets all his aspirations, development, and quirks alongside being a father. Sue deserves the same and wanting that for the character is not an insult to mothers. She is apart of a team that is about scientific exploration and wanting to give her an active part in that outside of her powers is not an insult, it should have been the case long ago.

[Zero Hunter]

Reed's a father. Why can't he just be a Pa?

Because in Reeds life it goes science>wife>kids. Reed is too focused on his work to be a really good dad.

[gurkle]

If anything, it's the opposite. Most superheroes aren't scientists and frequently have no trouble using powers that would need a very in-depth uderstanding of the sciences to be utilized to their fullest potential.

Right, so I don't see why they then feel the need to make a character a professional scientist before they can talk about science.

Or rather, I do know: science, unlike superpowers, is something that exists in real life and it doesn't send a good message to show amateurs knowing as much about science as professionals. But science in superhero comics is functionally identical to magic, and just as there are characters who use magic without a lot of formal training I think the FF have basically had enough on-the-job training that they could get away with taking some of the science talk away from Reed.

[iron chimp]

I get it, but personally find it boring. The FF are about scientific adventure and I believe each of them should bring something to that outside if their superpowers. A more active career path is simply more interesting and provides more opportunities for both character development and storytelling, two things that the character needs. Running the business makes just as much sense as any proposed path for the character but it brings significantly less possibilities for stories and growth. As you said, a writer would only have to show it very occasionally, which means it's not a significant enough change imo. It doesn't do much for the character.



This doesn't suddenly make her no longer a mother. Why can't she be both like Reed is both a scientist and father? Why is her motherhood always brought up to limit what she could potentially do? Reed gets all his aspirations, development, and quirks alongside being a father. Sue deserves the same and wanting that for the character is not an insult to mothers. She is apart of a team that is about scientific exploration and wanting to give her an active part in that outside of her powers is not an insult, it should have been the case long ago.

Why do you see motherhood as a 'limit'?

What if sue's aspirations were to be the best mother she could be?

Why should that be valued less than a piece of paper with a number on it?

Reeds a terrible father. He has zero time for the kids unless sue forces him or the writer thinks... oh yeah better have them go to funfair or something... his ultimate priority is indulging his own mind garden.

Sues ultimatè priority is time with the kids. That makes her a unique and very likeable character in comics.

On top of that shes got to manage the rest of them - stop reed disappearing up his own behind, stop ben going into the well of self loathing, stop Johnny becoming a complete douchebag, manage the foundation, act as a moral compass, and fight gorax the inviligator.

No sue no team.

Johnny was 'just' a mechanic and playboy about town. They did send him to university - but who thought... oh yeah hes going to nail this course and its going to be a crucial element of the team? No - one. Because thats not what the character is about.

I totally see what yr saying - but there are strong arguments either way. My main concern is time - adding another string to the bow means a lot less time doing what the characters morivations have been set up to do.

[The Whovian]

I would love to see this happen in a solo book.

[Crimz]

Why do you see motherhood as a 'limit'?

What if sue's aspirations were to be the best mother she could be?

Why should that be valued less than a piece of paper with a number on it?

Reeds a terrible father. He has zero time for the kids unless sue forces him or the writer thinks... oh yeah better have them go to funfair or something... his ultimate priority is indulging his own mind garden.

Sues ultimatè priority is time with the kids. That makes her a unique and very likeable character in comics.

On top of that shes got to manage the rest of them - stop reed disappearing up his own behind, stop ben going into the well of self loathing, stop Johnny becoming a complete douchebag, manage the foundation, act as a moral compass, and fight gorax the inviligator.

No sue no team.

Johnny was 'just' a mechanic and playboy about town. They did send him to university - but who thought... oh yeah hes going to nail this course and its going to be a crucial element of the team? No - one. Because thats not what the character is about.

I totally see what yr saying - but there are strong arguments either way. My main concern is time - adding another string to the bow means a lot less time doing what the characters morivations have been set up to do.

The harsh truth is that the characters "motivations" are rooted in the sexism of the time. Her motherhood or holding the family together are things given to her solely because she is a woman, that's the sad truth of it all. It's shown in the fact that while her apparent sole motivation is her kids, she doesn't have many stories about them. Reed gets all the stories about his relationship with the kids, Sue only gets moments where she goes "mama bear" when the kids are in danger. It's just superficial and there because motherhood is expected of women by society. Even Ben and Johnny have more interesting and nuanced interactions with her kids. Plus with them old enough to not need her as much, it's even more apparent how underdeveloped she is. That's why I don't think being a mother should be only aspect of Sue.
Just look at the current X-Men/Fantastic Four book. Sue's interactions with Franklin should be one of the core things to the book, but yet again her only role is mama bear while Reed gets those moments (and even Ben has more).

Also, her designation as the glue is often greatly exaggerated as they have easily operated without her on several occasions. If she is as important maintaining the team and their morals, why isn't she the leader? Especially if Reed is as neglectful as you say. But that won't happen, at least permanently because the status quo has Reed as the leader so Sue will revert to just being there. Sue deserves more and saying she does is not an insult to motherhood. She's apart of an exploration team, she should have a role in that aspect of the team. All of them should.

[JudicatorPrime]

Because in Reeds life it goes science>wife>kids. Reed is too focused on his work to be a really good dad.

Sorry, that's not a sound argument for limiting Sue's possibilities. If anything, it's a damning condemnation of Reed's fitness as a husband, father and a man. It's not the 1950s any more.

[Phoenixx9]

Should she go to college for it as an ongoing thing, or just pick it up, or should a flashback retcon be added?

I can see her invisibility powers being used to uncover things without physically uncovering them, and can make for interesting constructs.

Points I was also thinking.

Sue's powers can save time, money and effort from diggin in the wrong place, while also unearthing or helping escavations of which she is involved.

[iron chimp]

The harsh truth is that the characters "motivations" are rooted in the sexism of the time. Her motherhood or holding the family together are things given to her solely because she is a woman, that's the sad truth of it all. It's shown in the fact that while her apparent sole motivation is her kids, she doesn't have many stories about them. Reed gets all the stories about his relationship with the kids, Sue only gets moments where she goes "mama bear" when the kids are in danger. It's just superficial and there because motherhood is expected of women by society. Even Ben and Johnny have more interesting and nuanced interactions with her kids. Plus with them old enough to not need her as much, it's even more apparent how underdeveloped she is. That's why I don't think being a mother should be only aspect of Sue.
Just look at the current X-Men/Fantastic Four book. Sue's interactions with Franklin should be one of the core things to the book, but yet again her only role is mama bear while Reed gets those moments (and even Ben has more).

Also, her designation as the glue is often greatly exaggerated as they have easily operated without her on several occasions. If she is as important maintaining the team and their morals, why isn't she the leader? Especially if Reed is as neglectful as you say. But that won't happen, at least permanently because the status quo has Reed as the leader so Sue will revert to just being there. Sue deserves more and saying she does is not an insult to motherhood. She's apart of an exploration team, she should have a role in that aspect of the team. All of them should.

I agree. The character had a rocky start and there was an element in society that womans place is at home and that a liberated independent woman would earn her own money and have erher own career not be a housewife. But we live in different times now (more or less) where you can be a mother, a career woman, or both. The choice is there and all choices are valid. I think john byrnes talkshow episode dealt with this well (long time since ive read it tho.. ) .

Time is key dynamic in their relationship - how much time can reid spend on work without sue packing her bags and going to live with namor or what have you. How much is he willing to risk, how much is he willing to lose. How much will she put up with. Thats an interesting and unusual set up - we all know she has a breaking point and she could walk away. For her to then say actually this very precious commodity of time together as a family... actually im going to spend it in personal study instead seems a bit jarring.

But then how long can you flog the same dynamic before it gets really stale - you could have her say 'ok ive dedicated myself to this family, to the team, where is my time' and do role reversal with reed being full time dad and her doing other things. Probably could work well actually on reflection. Youve convinced me!

[Zero Hunter]

Sorry, that's not a sound argument for limiting Sue's possibilities. If anything, it's a damning condemnation of Reed's fitness as a husband, father and a man. It's not the 1950s any more.

I am pointing out Reed is a **** dad not trying to argue for limiting Sue. Man people always read what they want into things these days.