Batman literally has no answer for Wonderwoman or Flash

[JackDaw]

He has contingency plans for villains he never deals with outside the League but not for the villains that he actually fights in Gotham?

Lol.

But scratch the surface of practically any long standing DC character they are all wildly inconsistent...it’s really not just Batman.

Superman, Flash, Wonder Woman, etc all have top end feats that come out of nowhere..and then they struggle with more mundane stuff on other occasions.

We’ve got to point where best any one can hope for is that it’s kept consistent in particular series you happen to be reading...follow a favourite character to a team comic (or guest appearance in another comic)...and quite often you’ll be thinking: “never, in a thousand years”.

[hareluyafan1]

As for the rest of it ... as I said batmans not really my favorite. Therefore all the ignorant talk about sheep, and terrorists is... honestly pretty laughable. You kinda missed me with that talk. I don't know if you're projecting or why you'd get "BIG MAD" over this but... I mean... well... whatever *shrug*.

You're calling me "ignorant" when you flat-out admitted you didn't even read my posts?

I can only speak for myself but the reason I'm getting "BIG MAD" over this is because of your arrogance in ignoring my questions. Like you think you're so much better than me you don't even bother to find out what points I'm actually making.

Now I'll say again; how have I "lost the plot" because I like other characters more than Batman?

But scratch the surface of practically any long standing DC character they are all wildly inconsistent...it’s really not just Batman.

Superman, Flash, Wonder Woman, etc all have top end feats that come out of nowhere..and then they struggle with more mundane stuff on other occasions.

True, but Batman is by far the most egregious example.

But you’re assuming it has to make “sense”: that DC has to use a series of rules that are “pure writing logic” driven.

DC manifestly doesn’t have to do that..it can use a more human relatable Batman in several series while using Batgod in JLA adventures in the same continuity.

It might upset a purist who reads ALL DC material. But how many fans are in that category? Pragmatically if it sells more comics..and pleases more fans by giving them access to version of Batman they prefer...why shouldn’t DC do it?

Pragmatically... no reason at all.

It just bugs me as someone who likes things to be consistent.

[JackDaw]

Pragmatically... no reason at all.

It just bugs me as someone who likes things to be consistent.

As you may guess...I actually feel exactly the same way.

It (the overall inconsistency of DC) is one reason why I read a lot less DC super hero material than I used to.

(I still get a hankering to read some DC material from time to time..I “scratch that itch” by looking for long runs by favourite writers/ artists where there theres little or no tie in to special events...effectively by limiting my reading this way...the overall incoherence in DCU overall doesn’t trouble me.)

[hareluyafan1]

As you may guess...I actually feel exactly the same way.

It (the overall inconsistency of DC) is one reason why I read a lot less DC super hero material than I used to.

(I still get a hankering to read some DC material from time to time..I “scratch that itch” by looking for long runs by favourite writers/ artists where there theres little or no tie in to special events...effectively by limiting my reading this way...the overall incoherence in DCU overall doesn’t trouble me.)

That's a good idea.

[Ra-El]

If you don't like tour favorite getting punked by Batman, don't read JL or Batman tittles. It's simples. I know that on JL Superman is going to be less effective, slower and weaker and a lot more dumb, I also expect him to be among the first 3 characters taken down by the villain.
If one of my favorites guest star on any other character solo, not just Batman, I don't expect them to save the day.
As long as Batman don't show up on another character solo to save the day is fine.
About Batman's contigency plans their consistency depend on the story. Take Endgame for example, the story wasn't about Batman vs the JL, was Batman vs the Joker, with the JL playing very small part on it, so I guess is fine if Snyder didn't spent a lot of time thinking on the way Bruce woukd defeat the Justice League. But kryptonite buble gun is just a bad idea.

[Gaius]

Think this all just kind of confirms to me I wish Tower of Babel was never written as even though the point of the story was taking Batman's paranoia to it's logical conclusion, most just seemed to latch on to how it "cool" it was Batman can take down pretty much everyone.

[LifeIsILL]

I assume the idea is to shrink her until she hits microscopic proportions, maybe even throw her into the microverse. She'll be hard pressed to escape that.

Anything larger than that and all you've done is make Diana infinitely more dangerous. But making her so small she falls between molecules or enters another layer of reality itself seems a good way to contain her.

She can knock people out even at microscopic size.



And now that she's the daughter of Zeus...I'm sure she can use her God powers or whatever and just return herself back to normal size.

[sifighter]

Think this all just kind of confirms to me I wish Tower of Babel was never written as even though the point of the story was taking Batman's paranoia to it's logical conclusion, most just seemed to latch on to how it "cool" it was Batman can take down pretty much everyone.

Honestly I’m not too much of a fan of the crazy paranoid Batman who builds brother eye, I think it takes away from his friendship with the Justice League. However it did happen and I have to accept it as a part of his character now, whether it’s properly told or not.

Whether he should have the items in the first place to me is just an acceptance that he lives in the DC universe. People arguing that he has an anti-lasso and kryptonite gum which can be seen as silly, but that’s something we need to accept as comic book readers that characters like Batman can get his hands on stuff like that. If it was just batman then he wouldn’t need it and it would be all street stuff. But we read comics where a man in a batsuit lives in a world with literal gods, magic, alternate universes, aliens, and time travel.

Whether he should use them against his friends is dubious, but that he has them is an acceptance of the Dc universe itself. We just have to accept that off screen somewhere, because they won’t show us there entire lives, Batman talked to someone in the magic community of the dc universe, traveled to a mystic black market, and then purchased a magical artifact created by the gods for whatever purpose he may need of it. Its just the crazy biproduct of living in this world wether we like it or not.

[Ascended]

She can knock people out even at microscopic size.

And now that she's the daughter of Zeus...I'm sure she can use her God powers or whatever and just return herself back to normal size.

Which is why I said I wasn't sure if the plan would work or not. I don't think we have any reason to think Zeus' power would allow her to restore herself to her regular size though, unless it gives her the ability to enter Olympus and then return to earth from there. Olympus being a mythical location beyond the physical realm might very well reset her to her regular size when she returns to earth, but I dunno if Zeus' power would allow her to just straight up restore herself.

[JackDaw]

Which is why I said I wasn't sure if the plan would work or not. I don't think we have any reason to think Zeus' power would allow her to restore herself to her regular size though, unless it gives her the ability to enter Olympus and then return to earth from there. Olympus being a mythical location beyond the physical realm might very well reset her to her regular size when she returns to earth, but I dunno if Zeus' power would allow her to just straight up restore herself.

As always it just depends on whatever the writer wants to claim happens.

However, I think you are right that Zeus power probably wouldn’t give her an easy way to restore size.

I just doubt that she’s going to be written as totally immune to scientific weapons from now on. It would stop a shed load of stories.

[Pinsir]

Agreed, Batman is PATHETIC! Also, this hasn't been brought up yet, but Wonder Woman actually has neck-break vision, meaning she can simply stare at a foe and defeat them. This is very obscure knowledge though and only 12th level Lore Experts like myself are cognate to this.

[Gaius]

Honestly I’m not too much of a fan of the crazy paranoid Batman who builds brother eye, I think it takes away from his friendship with the Justice League. However it did happen and I have to accept it as a part of his character now, whether it’s properly told or not.

Whether he should have the items in the first place to me is just an acceptance that he lives in the DC universe. People arguing that he has an anti-lasso and kryptonite gum which can be seen as silly, but that’s something we need to accept as comic book readers that characters like Batman can get his hands on stuff like that. If it was just batman then he wouldn’t need it and it would be all street stuff. But we read comics where a man in a batsuit lives in a world with literal gods, magic, alternate universes, aliens, and time travel.

Whether he should use them against his friends is dubious, but that he has them is an acceptance of the Dc universe itself. We just have to accept that off screen somewhere, because they won’t show us there entire lives, Batman talked to someone in the magic community of the dc universe, traveled to a mystic black market, and then purchased a magical artifact created by the gods for whatever purpose he may need of it. Its just the crazy biproduct of living in this world wether we like it or not.

Yeah, playing up Batman's paranoia and double-crossing nature towards his friends and fellow colleagues has been one of the worst developments for Batman in my eyes. Eventually it gets to the point where it's only logical Batman would never be trusted by the even more open-minded and forgiving heroes but because Batman sells books he will never face long-term consequences for it.

[Midnight_v]

Which is why I said I wasn't sure if the plan would work or not. I don't think we have any reason to think Zeus' power would allow her to restore herself to her regular size though, unless it gives her the ability to enter Olympus and then return to earth from there. Olympus being a mythical location beyond the physical realm might very well reset her to her regular size when she returns to earth, but I dunno if Zeus' power would allow her to just straight up restore herself.

1. Golden age events. Lol ok.
Are you seriously giving credence to that panel? Cmon now brah.
(^_^) this is similar to the tactics of the storm fans on here. Some writer shows super man as immune to magic or telepathy once ever or he Flys around the globe turning back time and so now... its :...but he defeated ZzAzz the power mage in 1941! Of course he's immune to magic Doc Fate has no chance!"
Quite Amusing really. But I digress.

2. We have a list of her powers....on the wiki.
But seriously I thought ass-pull powers were the very thing people were despising about batman.

So the idea that zues power gives her molecular control is actually on the very tier of her "shitting" on Ray Palmers power.

No she's not a highly level reality warper... but we can go see what wiki or dc says her powers are.

But really... this isn't about that... that small section of the argument is about saying "Nu-uh".

So its would be "nu-uh" if we threw her into the future, or got help from Ah-puch or Camazotz, or Emma-O, and banished her to Xibalaba or the real. of the hungry dead or where, or shot her into an alternate reality, or across the universe...locked her up on Oa. Telpeport her to the sun

Ascended. How do you stop Diana?

Agreed, Batman is PATHETIC! Also, this hasn't been brought up yet, but Wonder Woman actually has neck-break vision, meaning she can simply stare at a foe and defeat them. This is very obscure knowledge though and only 12th level Lore Experts like myself are cognate to this.

Oh damn I missed this post. HAHAHA exactly.

[Lightning Rider]

Somebody mentioned a long time ago that Bruce might have a team of scientists working on studying the speed force.

And have to say it would be odd if Lex Luthor, Waynetech, Star Labs, etc, etc weren’t...it’s apparently a key to free energy, a fantastic range of weapons, etc. If at least some of DC’s top scientists aren’t researching it...they are effectively being written as a wee bit thick.

And we’re told it’s science based..there’s no overpowering reason (if that’s true) why it can’t be used by anyone, not just the Flashes.

But..to be honest...I think the speed force has been written as magic for a long time now, maybe right from the start of its creation.

But let’s go along with claim it’s science. Batman could have had some useful weapons in reserve now for sometime. Maybe not fully reliable...but to be brought out in dire emergency.

Certainly as soon as Flash is cut off from the speed force, Flash is neutered.

I guess how it effects Wonder Woman would depend on writer. You could claim it could rob her of practically all her speed, and at least make her far less effective...or you could say no effect on her because all her speed is magic sourced.

I think Bruce would since he knows about the Flash's origins and their adventures, but most others must assume that he's simply a metahuman. Star Labs is different since Barry works with them. But when Jay was cut off from the Speed Force, he was still fast, just couldn't go past Mach 3 if I remember right. I wonder if the same holds true for Barry and Wally. I used to think so.

[Ascended]

1. Golden age events. Lol ok.
Are you seriously giving credence to that panel? Cmon now brah.

Ascended. How do you stop Diana?

No, I'm not giving credit to the wildly unpredictable and inconsistent Golden Age. It just happens to illustrate what I was already saying.

If Ray Palmer can shrink down to the size of a flea and then hit you with the force of a speeding truck, then Diana at the same size should be far stronger and even more dangerous. So you'd have to make her microscopic or even smaller (which would have her falling into the microverse). And that was your suggestion right? I agree; that's a solid way to deal with a character who is nearly impossible to deal with.

I just don't think it's 100% foolproof, based on what I know of Ray.

I'm not an expert on the Atom at all (outside of Choi's book I've only read Atom in teams), but I'm pretty sure we've seen him impact the normal world from the microverse. Orlando's JLA maybe? Ray, I dunno, pushes an electron and that sets off a cascade effect or something (I really don't know how it works or what he does). If Ray can do that, then so can Diana. But without Ray's knowledge it comes down to random chance and luck. Maybe Diana does something that has no effect at all, or maybe she accidentally splits an atom and sets off a nuclear detonation or something. She has no knowledge of the science so it's basically like mixing random chemicals; who the hell knows what'll happen?

It's a good way to contain her, I'm just not sure if it's 100% foolproof. Maybe 95%.

As for the Zeus thing I already said I don't think that would allow her to re-size herself. Maybe Shazam can pull random sh*t out of the power like that but Diana can't. The only way I see that power helping her at all is if it lets her enter a realm without physical dimension (like Olympus), which *might* reset her to normal size when she returns to earth. Maybe. I don't know if it would, I'm just willing to entertain the notion that it might. Like a factory reset, yknow? But, while I have vague memories of Diana being able to do that, I think it's either my imagination or from the "goddess of truth" era, back when Bryne was writing her and she lost that ability when she gave up her godhood.

So shrinking Diana into the microverse is a good plan. If what I remember of Ray Palmer is correct it leaves her a little wiggle room, but it's as good a plan as any and better than most.