Batman literally has no answer for Wonderwoman or Flash

[Stanlos]

To me the part of the Tower of Babel story that made the least sense was how Batman’s contingencies dealt with Diana and Wally West. Unlike Superman and Martian Manhunter who have clearcut weaknesses that Bruce has the resources and knowledge to exploit, Wonderwoman, Flash don’t have kryptonite or fire equivalents. Green lantern for all his powers, is still just a guy with a cool weapon, Shazam’s alter ego is a kid. To me WW and the Flash are the two superheroes without easily exploitable weaknesses. So the writer had to resort to some hand waving.

As one of THOSE kinds of WW fans for whom no bit of minutiae is too minute I felt Waid did well by everyone save for one. That exception was Aquaman. Rather he just reintroduced a weakness that PAD had literally recently emphatically illustrated was no no longer in play.

While the notion that Diana would have a heartattack from the simulation is silly itself getting around her senses and defenses with an internal attack is valid. It was not clear if the nanites hit all of her sensory hubs but as she didn't have Athena's eyes and the scenario provided a distraction I was able to give it a pass.

Aquaman's however was a FAIL.

[Stanlos]

If the Flash went evil Batman wouldn’t be able to do ****, no one would. The timeline would be utterly screwed before anyone could do anything just like what happened with Thawne.

That is a line a lot of people tow these days. But there are many others who time traveled before in their histories and could do so again. I do agree that Batman couldn't do anything other than pee his pants mostly there are a number of others for whom Flash simply isn't enough of a threat to take them down.

[achilles]

I think Diana's mostly written as being plain bulletproof these days, with none of the old weaknesses to man's weapons.

But if/when that facet is still used (it does show up sometimes), it's due to the nature of her creation. She's a divine being (whether daughter of Zeus or clay given life); not entirely subject to the laws of nature. So a piercing weapon made by man....there's certain commentary there that explains why Diana, built on feminism, is vulnerable to it.

It's not the bullet, it's what the bullet represents.

And given the weaknesses gods from actual myths have, like Achilles' heel and Baldur being killed by mistletoe, I don't think Diana's that out of the ordinary.

Good insight, I hadn't given that any thought. I do like it when she has that vulnerability, makes her even more different than the Supers. Also makes that skill thing more necessary.

[Agent Z]

Good insight, I hadn't given that any thought. I do like it when she has that vulnerability, makes her even more different than the Supers. Also makes that skill thing more necessary.

The problem is it makes the villains dumb for not using a sniper.

Besides, vulnerability to bullets isn't a Superman exclusive ability and immunity to bullets does not mean immunity to other things like magic or energy blasts.

[achilles]

The problem is it makes the villains dumb for not using a sniper.

Besides, vulnerability to bullets isn't a Superman exclusive ability and immunity to bullets does not mean immunity to other things like magic or energy blasts.

The sniper issue works with any character who isn't invulnerable to bullets. Even the Flash. Shoot him with a subsonic bullet from behind and above, and he's dead. He wouldn't hear it first, and from behind, as long as he's stopped for a few moments, he's toast.

[manwhohaseverything]

In a Brave and the Bold issue in the 2000s, #7 IIRC, gas stopped WW well enough, at least for a time, as the post above shows, that's a theme with her. Flash is easy, grease the floor. Or, if you have Superman's help, have him fly at 90,000 feet, high enough so that Flash doesn't know he's there, and cut his tendons with his heat vision. That's lightspeed, and if Flash doesn't see it, how can he avoid it? And yeah, I'd think while the knockout part of knockout gas probably would be metabolised quickly by Flash, if you just lower the oxygen sufficiently, which shouldn't take much, he's out like a light.

A woman with high resistance and healing factor like wolverine. Yeah! Gas might work for time,not for long.
We don't know if it will work at all. She is made of magic. Science isn't exactly something that can work against that.It depends on writer,though.

Same for flash, he runs on water. He doesn't exactly "run" either. The speed at which the guy moves he should have ran of the curvature of the earth. Yet, he doesn't. I think what flash does is dimensional trick with speed force. He doesn't exactly need to "run". As for clark, wally would see him coming miles away. Besides, clark isn't known for stealth in any era. He sucks at it. He is in your face with everything. With clark, what you see is what you get. Current superman has no competitive bone in him,to push himself. Wally would deck him with infinite mass punch or leave him gasping for air even without stealing his speed. Furthermore, flash is a runner. Runners breathing capacity is often very high. Wally if he chooses can very much hold his breath enough to get away from bruce and deck him.Furthermore,you know how he handled reverse flash? That's right bruce didn't. He was beaten to a pulp. Reverse flash is slower than both barry and wally.

[Midnight_v]

I thought about it... bats real power is money which means he has tech resources to get what he wants the way a patron doesn't paint but might have an expensive art piece

Bruce Wayne can "acquire" ala beg, borrow , or gain access to the patent related to the Atoms shrink ray. He owns satellites, he owns drones. . . he just shrinks her into subatomics from an unexpected direction.
If not that then he teleports her away off world and he could do that even without the tech angle he could hire supers to get her off world if he needed but... yeah.

I'm a fan of these "normal men" dealing with powerful immortal stories and feel that the best way to deal with that is to inconvenience them suddenly. Especially, if they're unkillable, indestructible, better fighters... etc. . . all the attributes she has.

"Banishment" is how you deal with an immortal. . . and that's without me looking through every single villiian tech that bats/jla has faced. No scouring. . . Just *borrow* or jerry rig a 1 shot use of a Ray Palmer *gun*

[achilles]

A woman with high resistance and healing factor like wolverine. Yeah! Gas might work for time,not for long.
We don't know if it will work at all. She is made of magic. Science isn't exactly something that can work against that.It depends on writer,though.

Same for flash, he runs on water. He doesn't exactly "run" either. The speed at which the guy moves he should have ran of the curvature of the earth. Yet, he doesn't. I think what flash does is dimensional trick with speed force. He doesn't exactly need to "run". As for clark, wally would see him coming miles away. Besides, clark isn't known for stealth in any era. He sucks at it. He is in your face with everything. With clark, what you see is what you get. Current superman has no competitive bone in him,to push himself. Wally would deck him with infinite mass punch or leave him gasping for air even without stealing his speed. Furthermore, flash is a runner. Runners breathing capacity is often very high. Wally if he chooses can very much hold his breath enough to get away from bruce and deck him.Furthermore,you know how he handled reverse flash? That's right bruce didn't. He was beaten to a pulp. Reverse flash is slower than both barry and wally.

So the Flash has supervision? Did not know that, but it makes sense, since to see a human sized object from 90,000 feet away would require that. Not to mention I'm impressed Wally is in the habit of looking up. Most people don't, probably since they're not expecting attack from a superbeing with heat vision AND supervision to spot the target.

I'm also impressed that the Flash can fly well enough to take down a Superman at 90,000 feet. Again, I did not know that. I'm also impressed by that infinite mass punch, which I did know about. I love that Flashes are not affected by the general theory of Relativity when it isn't convenient for them to be, but can use it when it is, despite all those pesky side effects, like well becoming a black hole for example. Far as WW goes, yes we do know she's stopped at least briefly by that, we've seen it enough times, at least prior to Flushpoint. In the Brave and the Bold #7 case, it was temporary, but lasted long enough for a very not affected by the gas Power Girl to get a large lead to Superman's fortress. I don't know how long the other cases lasted. I would point out that Clark doesn't have to be "stealthy", all he has to do is not be a total idiot. I am interested that Flash doesn't run, again, I did not know that. Mostly because yes, he does run, and has since he was created.

[Agent Z]

The sniper issue works with any character who isn't invulnerable to bullets. Even the Flash. Shoot him with a subsonic bullet from behind and above, and he's dead. He wouldn't hear it first, and from behind, as long as he's stopped for a few moments, he's toast.

You could get the same result by just having her be weak to magical or specially designed bullets instead of normal ones.

[achilles]

You could get the same result by just having her be weak to magical or specially designed bullets instead of normal ones.

Well yes, but it's a little too like Kryptonite. And it doesn't make sense that the magic specialist is vulnerable to magic bullets. Vulnerable to magic anything is Superman's gig, while WW is pretty much magic. And the goal I was implying would be to make her LESS like the Kryptonians, living battleships able to take anything, whereas Diana used to be about skill above invulnerability. Then writers started writing her as more Supermanlike in terms of the powers, and she started losing her unique charm, the super powerful Amazon who still had some vulnerability, the warrior who nonetheless embraced and pursued peace in a way none of the other DC heroes did, even Superman. That WW was unique, but probably harder to write than the tank WW we have now.

[Agent Z]

Well yes, but it's a little too like Kryptonite. And it doesn't make sense that the magic specialist is vulnerable to magic bullets.

She's a creature of magical origins and uses magical weapons but that wouldn't make her anymore immune to magic than Zatanna or Shazam. She has never been depicted as being vulnerable to magic and it doesn't make any sense that she would be.

And the goal I was implying would be to make her LESS like the Kryptonians, living battleships able to take anything, whereas Diana used to be about skill above invulnerability. Then writers started writing her as more Supermanlike in terms of the powers, and she started losing her unique charm, the super powerful Amazon who still had some vulnerability, the warrior who nonetheless embraced and pursued peace in a way none of the other DC heroes did, even Superman. That WW was unique, but probably harder to write than the tank WW we have now.

I mean, she doesn't have ice breath, heat vision or super hearing so that's three things Kryptonians have that she doesn't.

I don't think there is a connection between Diana being less vulnerable and pursuing peace is. She isn't less peaceful now just because she is Superman's weight class (which she was always supposed to be anyway) but simply because writers ignore that she isn't a sadist or murderer for fun. She still has the bullet weakness and it hasn't made writers depict her as any more peaceful. Perez, Rucka, Jiminez and even Azzarello were able to write her as kind and compassionate without weakening her so the issue isn't anything to do with how vulnerable she is.

I guess I'll just never quite get used to the bullets thing but YMMV for these things I guess.

[krazijoe]

For Flash, kill family and for WW, kill Trevor again. They turn to goop when you do that.

[manwhohaseverything]

So the Flash has supervision? Did not know that, but it makes sense, since to see a human sized object from 90,000 feet away would require that. Not to mention I'm impressed Wally is in the habit of looking up. Most people don't, probably since they're not expecting attack from a superbeing with heat vision AND supervision to spot the target.

I'm also impressed that the Flash can fly well enough to take down a Superman at 90,000 feet. Again, I did not know that. I'm also impressed by that infinite mass punch, which I did know about. I love that Flashes are not affected by the general theory of Relativity when it isn't convenient for them to be, but can use it when it is, despite all those pesky side effects, like well becoming a black hole for example. Far as WW goes, yes we do know she's stopped at least briefly by that, we've seen it enough times, at least prior to Flushpoint. In the Brave and the Bold #7 case, it was temporary, but lasted long enough for a very not affected by the gas Power Girl to get a large lead to Superman's fortress. I don't know how long the other cases lasted. I would point out that Clark doesn't have to be "stealthy", all he has to do is not be a total idiot. I am interested that Flash doesn't run, again, I did not know that. Mostly because yes, he does run, and has since he was created.

As said, it depends on the writer regarding wonderwoman.
Dude! Wally has from my understanding stopped a bullet at point blank range. As for relativity, well that's exactly how speed force work. It's broken. So is batgod. Blame the writers. Why would he need to look up or need supervision? Wally can stop time. He can steal speed. The minute superman makes contact or first touch with wally's body the character would start moving.He has done so in the past, i believe. it's called heat vision. It isn't laser vision. Heat travels at a particular speed either conduction, convection or radiation. Here, we can assume it's through radiation. But, we don't exactly know. It's a beam. Even then it's not like flashes haven't dodged that one before . Flash doesn't need to "fly". At the speed he moves and the maneuvers he pulls he could leave the atmosphere,let alone punch superman. And as for superman, he is an idiot and a flying brick. He can't get past a rock.It's not like bruce or Lex weaves an intricate plan to trap him.i am gonna leave something that alan moore wrote, "whatever happened to the man of tomorrow" . Speedsters don't need to run to generate speed force. They can just vibrate. It's whole different deal of when they do run they create it. Finally, tone down the sarcasm. If you can't talk normally, don't talk. I am in no mood for it.If you want a bullshit answer for why batgod beats up these guys, anything can work.Make him bugs bunny and everyone else in dc daffy duck.

[Vordan]

For Flash, kill family and for WW, kill Trevor again. They turn to goop when you do that.

Barry snapped Thawne’s neck when he tried to kill Iris so I wouldn’t advise that lol.

[Frontier]

Barry snapped Thawne’s neck when he tried to kill Iris so I wouldn’t advise that lol.

Yeah, it's kind of funny to think Barry actually killed Thawne when Wally was able to use enough restraint to not do the same to Zoom after what he did to Linda. Of course, what he did to Hunter was arguably worse then death, but still...