View Poll Results: Best Star Trek Captain

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  • Kirk

    13 30.95%
  • Picard

    14 33.33%
  • Sisko

    12 28.57%
  • Janeway

    0 0%
  • Archer

    2 4.76%
  • Other

    1 2.38%
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  1. #91
    Uncanny Member XPac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by stargazer01 View Post
    more character development doesn't mean a character is better, imo. Sometimes that development sucks.

    And Kirk wasn't always by the book Captain. He disobeyed Starfleet to find his friend. That was part of his character development, he loved Spock as a brother. I also don't watch Star Trek for pure realism. I watch it as great escapism and moral lessons.
    Being a cheater is practically a defining trait for Kirt, so it absolutely is fair to say he's not always by the book. Part of the reason the book exists is probably to keep guys like Kirk in line.

    But that's a part of his charm, in contrast to guy like Picard who bleed Star Fleet. Sisko falls somewhere in the middle.

  2. #92
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    Quote Originally Posted by stargazer01 View Post
    more character development doesn't mean a character is better, imo. Sometimes that development sucks.
    Well, luckily, in the case of Sisko it didn't suck.

  3. #93
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    My overall problem with Janeway has less to do with the actress and more to do with the inconsistent writing. Janeway would go from being a scientific, rational, principled Star Fleet captain to a complete basket case who made extremely emotional decisions. Whoever was responsible for writing the character or for her direction really didn't know how to write strong female characters.
    There is a good story out there that explains how Janeway got promoted after Voyager returned home. She should have been court martialed once Starfleet went through the ship logs and read about Voyager's adventures--I could see them arguing the circumstances and Janeway gets allowed to "retire gracefully", but they promoted her?!?!?! WTF?!? I'm convinced someone is hiding the true about Voyager and there's a big cover up.

    Not only extremely emotional decisions. Extremely hypocritical, willing to take a moral stand one episode and then going the other way when a similar decision presented itself a half-season later.

    The actress was great, the character (along with several Voyager characters) was poorly written. It's also ok to like the character, but I can't understand anyone thinking Janeway was a good captain or that anyone would want to serve under her given the other choices.

  4. #94
    Extraordinary Member Cyke's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by titanfan View Post
    There is a good story out there that explains how Janeway got promoted after Voyager returned home. She should have been court martialed once Starfleet went through the ship logs and read about Voyager's adventures--I could see them arguing the circumstances and Janeway gets allowed to "retire gracefully", but they promoted her?!?!?! WTF?!? I'm convinced someone is hiding the true about Voyager and there's a big cover up.

    Not only extremely emotional decisions. Extremely hypocritical, willing to take a moral stand one episode and then going the other way when a similar decision presented itself a half-season later.

    The actress was great, the character (along with several Voyager characters) was poorly written. It's also ok to like the character, but I can't understand anyone thinking Janeway was a good captain or that anyone would want to serve under her given the other choices.
    In fairness, we rarely see court martials that actually happen in Trek, even when they're supposed to be automatic and procedural: for example, every time a starship is destroyed, its captain is automatically court-martialled (so that would be Picard and Sisko, twice each), but we never saw any of their trials (though Sisko losing the first Defiant during war could understandably simply just postpone or eliminate that court martial altogether). We can assume that they happened off-screen, unless canon says otherwise.

    I imagine Janeway really was court-martialed, but it doesn't necessarily mean guilty. And regardless of the morally questionable things Janeway did (which, I agree, is plenty), she returned home a hero and likely a celebrity, too, kind of like a 7-year version of Captain Sully Sullenberger. It'd be bad PR for post-war Starfleet to force her retirement.

    My head canon is that they promoted Janeway to admiral to give her a desk job -- and to keep her away from a starship, like Jim Kirk warned Picard.
    Last edited by Cyke; 05-12-2020 at 01:44 PM.

  5. #95
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    Quote Originally Posted by titanfan View Post
    There is a good story out there that explains how Janeway got promoted after Voyager returned home. She should have been court martialed once Starfleet went through the ship logs and read about Voyager's adventures--I could see them arguing the circumstances and Janeway gets allowed to "retire gracefully", but they promoted her?!?!?! WTF?!? I'm convinced someone is hiding the true about Voyager and there's a big cover up.

    Not only extremely emotional decisions. Extremely hypocritical, willing to take a moral stand one episode and then going the other way when a similar decision presented itself a half-season later.

    The actress was great, the character (along with several Voyager characters) was poorly written. It's also ok to like the character, but I can't understand anyone thinking Janeway was a good captain or that anyone would want to serve under her given the other choices.
    Maybe Admiral Satie was brought out of retirement again to investigate the logs then framed for creating conspiracies to destroy Captain Janeway's good name

  6. #96
    Mighty Member Anodyne's Avatar
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    In my head-canon I see Kirk as Crazy Horse and Picard as Sitting Bull.
    Beverly Allen, the Bee--with honey and stinger.

    "If humans have souls, then clones will have them, too."--Arthur Caplan

  7. #97
    My Face Is Up Here Powerboy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by titanfan View Post
    There is a good story out there that explains how Janeway got promoted after Voyager returned home. She should have been court martialed once Starfleet went through the ship logs and read about Voyager's adventures--I could see them arguing the circumstances and Janeway gets allowed to "retire gracefully", but they promoted her?!?!?! WTF?!? I'm convinced someone is hiding the true about Voyager and there's a big cover up.

    Not only extremely emotional decisions. Extremely hypocritical, willing to take a moral stand one episode and then going the other way when a similar decision presented itself a half-season later.

    The actress was great, the character (along with several Voyager characters) was poorly written. It's also ok to like the character, but I can't understand anyone thinking Janeway was a good captain or that anyone would want to serve under her given the other choices.
    I wouldn't necessarily argue the point other than that most of the captains have done things that, by the Prime Directive, they should have been court-martialed but Janeway tends to get singled out.

    Kirk gets a pass on the grounds that the Prime Directive came across more like a suggestion than a rule in his day. Though, even by the standards of his time, it sort of implies that he held the record.
    Power with Girl is better.

  8. #98
    My Face Is Up Here Powerboy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cyke View Post
    In fairness, we rarely see court martials that actually happen in Trek, even when they're supposed to be automatic and procedural: for example, every time a starship is destroyed, its captain is automatically court-martialled (so that would be Picard and Sisko, twice each), but we never saw any of their trials (though Sisko losing the first Defiant during war could understandably simply just postpone or eliminate that court martial altogether). We can assume that they happened off-screen, unless canon says otherwise.

    I imagine Janeway really was court-martialed, but it doesn't necessarily mean guilty. And regardless of the morally questionable things Janeway did (which, I agree, is plenty), she returned home a hero and likely a celebrity, too, kind of like a 7-year version of Captain Sully Sullenberger. It'd be bad PR for post-war Starfleet to force her retirement.

    My head canon is that they promoted Janeway to admiral to give her a desk job -- and to keep her away from a starship, like Jim Kirk warned Picard.
    I always assumed that part of making Kirk an admiral was so he wouldn't be out there doing his maverick stuff anymore but he used a crisis to get out there again and they realized that he does do stuff that causes problems but also saves the day.

    In TNG, there were episodes that took shots at Kirk though not by name. There was the one where the ambassador solved a hostage crisis by giving one side the weapons they wanted and then giving the other side equal weapons which is basically what Kirk did in the episode I think was called "A Private Little War". The Klingons were providing weapons to one side and he gave the other side the same weapons at the end to the shock of Spock and even McCoy. Picard was stunned that this ambassador had done such a thing.

    There was an episode where someone wanted to try something based on a hunch with no empirical data that it was true, a one in a million maverick chance. It backfired and he was killed and we even had someone saying, "We have no empirical evidence that your idea is true".

    One thing I did find amusing with that whole Tuvok/ Neelix combined being was that the Kirk duplicates, both equally Kirk, were forced together though the duplicate specifically stated he wanted to live but nobody has a problem with Kirk doing it.
    Power with Girl is better.

  9. #99
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    Quote Originally Posted by titanfan View Post
    There is a good story out there that explains how Janeway got promoted after Voyager returned home. She should have been court martialed once Starfleet went through the ship logs and read about Voyager's adventures--I could see them arguing the circumstances and Janeway gets allowed to "retire gracefully", but they promoted her?!?!?! WTF?!? I'm convinced someone is hiding the true about Voyager and there's a big cover up.

    Not only extremely emotional decisions. Extremely hypocritical, willing to take a moral stand one episode and then going the other way when a similar decision presented itself a half-season later.

    The actress was great, the character (along with several Voyager characters) was poorly written. It's also ok to like the character, but I can't understand anyone thinking Janeway was a good captain or that anyone would want to serve under her given the other choices.
    It's not difficult to imagine that bringing the ship home from the other side of the galaxy, in 10 years, against impossible odds, reuniting the ship's crew with their families, would generate a public reaction that would make court martial untenable, even if Starfleet thought there was cause for it. Which, under the circumstances, they probably would not.

  10. #100
    Uncanny Member XPac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JamesonAnders View Post
    It's not difficult to imagine that bringing the ship home from the other side of the galaxy, in 10 years, against impossible odds, reuniting the ship's crew with their families, would generate a public reaction that would make court martial untenable, even if Starfleet thought there was cause for it. Which, under the circumstances, they probably would not.
    Yeah, I think avoiding a cour marshal under the circumstances is believable enough.

    The promotion is a bit harder to swallow... but maybe there's validity to the arguement that the promote Captains to keep them out of trouble.

  11. #101
    Mighty Member TriggerWarning's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by titanfan View Post
    There is a good story out there that explains how Janeway got promoted after Voyager returned home. She should have been court martialed once Starfleet went through the ship logs and read about Voyager's adventures--I could see them arguing the circumstances and Janeway gets allowed to "retire gracefully", but they promoted her?!?!?! WTF?!? I'm convinced someone is hiding the true about Voyager and there's a big cover up.

    Not only extremely emotional decisions. Extremely hypocritical, willing to take a moral stand one episode and then going the other way when a similar decision presented itself a half-season later.

    The actress was great, the character (along with several Voyager characters) was poorly written. It's also ok to like the character, but I can't understand anyone thinking Janeway was a good captain or that anyone would want to serve under her given the other choices.
    Her getting promoted on returning is one of the most realistic things to ever happen in Trek.

    She got her crew back home and was thus would be branded a hero by everyone. Starfleet would have crucified if they then court martialed her. They would have to promote her to appease the masses and win the support of the public. We never really see it in Trek but Starfleet would have to get by like any government nowadays with polling, public support, etc.

  12. #102
    Mighty Member TriggerWarning's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JamesonAnders View Post
    It's not difficult to imagine that bringing the ship home from the other side of the galaxy, in 10 years, against impossible odds, reuniting the ship's crew with their families, would generate a public reaction that would make court martial untenable, even if Starfleet thought there was cause for it. Which, under the circumstances, they probably would not.
    Posted my comment saying basically the same thing right before seeing yours.

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