Best Star Trek Captain

[XPac]

Zero for Janeway? Is it a generation thing?

I wouldn't think so. Picard, Sisko, Janeway, and Archer are all roughly in the same generation. Kirk and Discovery Pike are the only real outlyers.

[stargazer01]

Well there was that episode where the kid listened to Alien Metal.


I definitely didn't expect Jake Sisko to be listening to Nirvana. I think if you're going to show them listening to anything even remotely "contemporary" to our society, classical and Jazz standards is a pretty good way to go.

For me Classical and classic rock. They're timeless!

[stargazer01]

It might be more of an “overshadowing” thing; Janeway’s Show was both trying to be more TNG than its own thing half the time, while it also launched when Sisko was just starting to hit his stride in DS9. And TNG made it to the movies as well, so that me at she was competing with the original Picard as well.

Probably would have done better of Voyager made a more concerted effort towards beings it’s on thing; about every time it took a step towards its unique premise it would take a step back the very next episode.

Good point, VOY always felt a bit derivative? If you go to other forums with more female Trek fans, Janeway would get more votes, though..

I feel this forum is very male centric.

[XPac]

It might be more of an “overshadowing” thing; Janeway’s Show was both trying to be more TNG than its own thing half the time, while it also launched when Sisko was just starting to hit his stride in DS9. And TNG made it to the movies as well, so that me at she was competing with the original Picard as well.

Probably would have done better of Voyager made a more concerted effort towards beings it’s on thing; about every time it took a step towards its unique premise it would take a step back the very next episode.

I think it's a bit simpler than that. I think flat out most people simply don't think Voyager was as good as TNG or DS9. That's not to say Voyager was bad... and obviously all of this is subjective. But honestly I think you can argue Voyager didn't even really pick up until Seven of Nine came on board. I think it had trouble really finding it's groove until later on. You can make the same arguement for DS9, but that last few seasons of that show was so strong I think people tend to overlook the first couple seasons.

[TriggerWarning]

No vote for Janeway.

Unless your going to vote for her just because she is female there wouldn't be a reason to.

She was written all over the map in terms of consistency. And while Kate Mulgrew isn't a bad actress she lacks the gravitas of someone like Patrick Stewart to overcome inconsistent writing. Her "badass" moments felt forced rather than natural like Siskos. And she was never over the top and thus fun like Kirk. Lastly Voyager is largely seen as the worst of the first four Star Trek shows. As such its no wonder she isn't anyones favorite.

[kingaliencracker]

I kinda thought that was the least evil option of that moral crises.

No. An accident created Tuvix, good or bad. Janeway outright executed Tuvix for personal reasons.

Regardless how you feel about her decision, she performed the execution of a sentient being that wanted to live.

[WebLurker]

No vote for Janeway.

I liked her well enough, just not as much as other characters.

I think it had trouble really finding it's groove until later on. You can make the same arguement for DS9, but that last few seasons of that show was so strong I think people tend to overlook the first couple seasons.

All post-TOS shows through Enterprise needed three or four seasons to hit their stride. In the case of ENT, it was canceled just as it found it, so never really had the chance that the other ones did, IMHO.

No. An accident created Tuvix, good or bad. Janeway outright executed Tuvix for personal reasons.

Regardless how you feel about her decision, she performed the execution of a sentient being that wanted to live.

And what about the two people who had to be condemned to die without any say in the matter for this to go on?

[Enterprise E]

I liked her well enough, just not as much as other characters.



All post-TOS shows through Enterprise needed three or four seasons to hit their stride. In the case of ENT, it was canceled just as it found it, so never really had the chance that the other ones did, IMHO.



And what about the two people who had to be condemned to die without any say in the matter for this to go on?

This may sound a little absurd, and to my knowledge, nothing like this was ever done with transporters, but since Replicators are based off of transporter technology, it might have worked. Why not separate Tuvix to bring back Neelix and Tuvok, but basically do a "reverse" of the replicators and simply add matter to the transporter's matter stream and reconstitute it into Tuvix's body? That could have solved all of the problems. Now, as I mentioned before, nothing like this had ever been done with transporters before, but considering the fact that Replicators used technology based off of transporters, I don't see why it wouldn't be theoretically possible.

[Kieran_Frost]

No vote for Janeway.

I'm sad by this as well. After Picard, Janeway is my favourite. I always joke the only acceptable answer to "Kirk or Picard" is either "Picard" or "Janeway" (because she breaks all the rules)

Unless your going to vote for her just because she is female there wouldn't be a reason to.

HEAVILY disagree.

And while Kate Mulgrew isn't a bad actress she lacks the gravitas of someone like Patrick Stewart to overcome inconsistent writing.

Kate Mulgrew is a great actress, arguably the best actor after Patrick Stewart in terms of the Captains. Have you seen her in Orange is the New Black? She's fantastic.

[Cyke]

I honestly think gravitas is the least of Janeway's worries -- she has more than enough and she, Sisko, and Picard are the captains I'd want to piss off the *least.* Kirk and Archer I'm less afraid of, and I simply wouldn't want to disappoint Captain Pike.

And yeah, she has plenty of weight and conviction in Orange is the New Black. Indeed, her role in NTSF:SD:SUV seems to be self-parody of Janeway's gravitas at times. So she's not lacking in that department to me.

To me the problem is simply that she had gravitas during the wrong or most inconsistent times. It could be from just cabin fever during such a stressful voyage, but sometimes Janeway would react a certain way in one episode and the opposite in another episode.

I'd still take her over Archer in a heartbeat, though.

[WebLurker]

This may sound a little absurd, and to my knowledge, nothing like this was ever done with transporters, but since Replicators are based off of transporter technology, it might have worked. Why not separate Tuvix to bring back Neelix and Tuvok, but basically do a "reverse" of the replicators and simply add matter to the transporter's matter stream and reconstitute it into Tuvix's body? That could have solved all of the problems. Now, as I mentioned before, nothing like this had ever been done with transporters before, but considering the fact that Replicators used technology based off of transporters, I don't see why it wouldn't be theoretically possible.

Interesting idea. I'm assuming "in-universe" it didn't work that way, but it wouldn't be the first time the transporters worked differently from episode to episode.

[XPac]

No. An accident created Tuvix, good or bad. Janeway outright executed Tuvix for personal reasons.

Regardless how you feel about her decision, she performed the execution of a sentient being that wanted to live.

Yeah, they didn't give Janeway the easy out.

The more predictable outcome would be Tuvix willing to sacrifice himself to bring back Neelix and Tuvac, thus keeping Janeways hands clean. But she had no easy out and was forced to make the tough call.

It was a bold move on the shows part, though not entirely shocking that it may have generated some critics for the character. But it also shows that Janeway is in a dire enough predicament (in contrast to some of her peers) to where she doesn't have the same luxuries of doing the right thing. THat may be a bit of a cop out... but I suppose that's part of what made Voyager stand out a bit. In hindsight maybe the show would have been BETTER if we saw more of that.

[Powerboy]

This may sound a little absurd, and to my knowledge, nothing like this was ever done with transporters, but since Replicators are based off of transporter technology, it might have worked. Why not separate Tuvix to bring back Neelix and Tuvok, but basically do a "reverse" of the replicators and simply add matter to the transporter's matter stream and reconstitute it into Tuvix's body? That could have solved all of the problems. Now, as I mentioned before, nothing like this had ever been done with transporters before, but considering the fact that Replicators used technology based off of transporters, I don't see why it wouldn't be theoretically possible.

That might work but, of course, it avoids the whole moral dilemma that is the heart of the story.

[Powerboy]

Yeah, they didn't give Janeway the easy out.

The more predictable outcome would be Tuvix willing to sacrifice himself to bring back Neelix and Tuvac, thus keeping Janeways hands clean. But she had no easy out and was forced to make the tough call.

It was a bold move on the shows part, though not entirely shocking that it may have generated some critics for the character. But it also shows that Janeway is in a dire enough predicament (in contrast to some of her peers) to where she doesn't have the same luxuries of doing the right thing. THat may be a bit of a cop out... but I suppose that's part of what made Voyager stand out a bit. In hindsight maybe the show would have been BETTER if we saw more of that.

Yes, in my opinion, they did a "Watchmen" maneuver where any choice she made would be perceived as the wrong choice by half the viewers. It was clearly not the choice the merged being wanted but was clearly, after the fact, the choice Neelix and Tuvok were glad she made. People can argue that leaving things as they were was a passive non-choice as opposed to active "murder" but then one can as easily say "I'm not actively killing Tuvok and Neelix but I'm not going to save them either" is just as much of an abdication of moral choice. That so many condemn her choice but would have as readily condemned the other choice really shows what a perfect moral quandary the story was.

[Kieran_Frost]

Am I the only one who wouldn't have cared is Janeway straight up murdered Nelix? Period. Poor Tuvok being trapped with Nelix for all time, that's a greater crime than murder.