All purpose news and politics thread part VI: This Is Not The Time For Posing

[PwrdOn]

Give China enough time, and they'll have done the same thing to Tibet that the United States did to the Native Americans. Because they're doing it now, intentionally displacing the locals with loyalists. While performing cultural and literal genocide on the Uighurs.

China has controlled these areas for almost 70 years now, you would think that if the plan was to exterminate them it would have happened by now.

[shooshoomanjoe]

Wholesale depopulation of an entire continent and complete replacement by outside settlers has only happened once in human history, as far as I'm aware, twice if you want to count Australia as its own continent. And while most societies have had slavery in one form or another, almost none were as economically dependent on the institution as much as America was, nor are there any other places where slavery had such long lasting repercussions after its abolition.

Haiti, Brazil and South Africa come to mind.

[WestPhillyPunisher]

Lindsey Graham campaign ad features image of opponent with digitally altered darker skin tone

Revolting. That reminds me, I think there had been another ad where a Republican had an opponent’s nose altered to look longer, overemphasizing his Jewish heritage.

[sammy_hansen]

Well it would be pretty odd to cast yourself as some type of human rights crusader if you live in a country built on stolen land and slave labor and pretend like that's all just "in the past" while continuing to benefit from it to this day, wouldn't it?

Well it would be pretty odd to generalize that all Americans think like that, don’t you think?

[Jack Dracula]

China has controlled these areas for almost 70 years now, you would think that if the plan was to exterminate them it would have happened by now.

But only in the last 20 years have they had the clout to overtly carry out their policies without the fear of economic sanctions. If they establish the trade network they've been working toward they will have the power to dictate policy to most of Asia, Australia, Oceana, Eastern Africa and parts of the Middle East.

[PwrdOn]

Well it would be pretty odd to generalize that all Americans think like that, don’t you think?

The legacy of slavery impacts everyone here, whether we choose to recognize that or not. Now of course there may be a handful of non-whites who profited from slavery and some whites who were harmed by it, but by and large the effect cuts along pretty clear racial lines.

But only in the last 20 years have they had the clout to overtly carry out their policies without the fear of economic sanctions. If they establish the trade network they've been working toward they will have the power to dictate policy to most of Asia, Australia, Oceana, Eastern Africa and parts of the Middle East.

Remember that China was effectively cut off from the global economy until the late 70s and thus further sanctions could not be used as a deterrent, and that these were particularly turbulent times in which so many people died that throwing a few million Tibetans and Uighurs onto the pile of bodies would hardly have registered. Do you really think they went through all this trouble of building up their economy and trading networks just so they could have a free hand at home to kill a bunch of people for no good reason? Worth noting that the cultural enmity here is almost entirely one-sided, while Tibetans, Uighurs, Mongols, and other groups tend to hold an understandable resentment toward the Han Chinese, the Han in turn largely regard ethnic minorities with a patronizing affection. While their understanding of these cultures are rather shallow and laden with stereotypes of folksy and simple minded singers and dancers, they have little of that deep seated resentment toward them that Westerners show toward their minority populations. There are no Protocols of the Elder Lamas circulating around inciting the masses or anything like that.

[Gray Lensman]

Well it would be pretty odd to cast yourself as some type of human rights crusader if you live in a country built on stolen land and slave labor and pretend like that's all just "in the past" while continuing to benefit from it to this day, wouldn't it?



Censorship in China is real and quite extensive, that's not the point I was making though. While the state tries to suppress public discussion of it and other shameful events, that doesn't mean that people have forgotten about them or try to spin Chinese history as always have been glorious and flawless. By contrast, in America and other Western countries, information about the sordid events in our history is readily available to anyone who wants to seek it out, yet few people bother to do so and those that do are routinely labeled as unpatriotic and revisionist.

Not to blow this out of proportion or anything, but just look at this thread. I pointed out that American history is based on racial oppression and that practically everyone living in this country benefited from it whether or not you are racist yourself or were personally involved in discriminatory policy, which should be common knowledge at this point. And yet the only reaction any of you had to that was "well, what about China????" as if that had any relevance to the discussion we had been having.

Now this is some serious weapons grade projection. It's normally the other way around - someone criticizes China, then you pipe in with a whatabout.

[sammy_hansen]

The legacy of slavery impacts everyone here, whether we choose to recognize that or not. Now of course there may be a handful of non-whites who profited from slavery and some whites who were harmed by it, but by and large the effect cuts along pretty clear racial lines.

My point was it’s dumb to generalize every American as thinking slavery is “in the past” while they enjoy the benefits of it and institutionalized racism. Not every American is an *******.

[Robotman]

Revolting. That reminds me, I think there had been another ad where a Republican had an opponent’s nose altered to look longer, overemphasizing his Jewish heritage.

Yep. The campaign of Georgia Senator, David Perdue, ran an ad which enlarged the nose of his opponent, who happens to be Jewish.

[The Cool Thatguy]

China has controlled these areas for almost 70 years now, you would think that if the plan was to exterminate them it would have happened by now.

If the mass displacement of an ethnic people from their homeland and erasure of their culture isn't genocide, then I'm baffled how you can take issue with the treatment of Native Americans in the United States.

...and to be clear, there's a lot to take issue with.

[PwrdOn]

Now this is some serious weapons grade projection. It's normally the other way around - someone criticizes China, then you pipe in with a whatabout.

Well read through the thread if you don't believe me. I'm happy to get the discussion back on track.

If the mass displacement of an ethnic people from their homeland and erasure of their culture isn't genocide, then I'm baffled how you can take issue with the treatment of Native Americans in the United States.

...and to be clear, there's a lot to take issue with.

Except that isn't happening, nor is it even the accusation. Unlike the USSR, China has never really had a policy of trying to resettle ethnic groups far away from their homelands, the accusation that's usually leveled is that they are encouraging Han settlers to move to Tibet and Xinjiang in order to dilute the ethnic makeup of those regions. However, the demographic data doesn't really bear that out, the populations of Tibetans and Uighurs have doubled in the last 40 years, while the Han population in Xinjiang has actually decreased, and is flatlining nationwide due to declining birthrates. The thing is, if the Chinese government were doing the opposite of what it's doing now - preventing people from moving freely around the country, refusing to educate minorities to the same standards, and banning intermarriage between ethnic groups, all the flack it would get for abusing human rights would be well deserved.

[The Cool Thatguy]

Except that isn't happening, nor is it even the accusation. Unlike the USSR, China has never really had a policy of trying to resettle ethnic groups far away from their homelands, the accusation that's usually leveled is that they are encouraging Han settlers to move to Tibet and Xinjiang in order to dilute the ethnic makeup of those regions. However, the demographic data doesn't really bear that out, the populations of Tibetans and Uighurs have doubled in the last 40 years, while the Han population in Xinjiang has actually decreased, and is flatlining nationwide due to declining birthrates.

They're diluting the local people/culture, outlawing their customs and oppressing them.

Six of one...

[Gray Lensman]

They're diluting the local people/culture, outlawing their customs and oppressing them.

Six of one...

Another thing we used to practice here - "Kill the Indian, Save the Man." It was wrong then and it is wrong now, no matter who is doing it.

[PwrdOn]

Another thing we used to practice here - "Kill the Indian, Save the Man." It was wrong then and it is wrong now, no matter who is doing it.

You just whatabouted yourself there...

In all seriousness, if your only reference point for race relations is how minorities are treated in America, then of course everything is going to look like genocide. Luckily, not everyone is so cruel.

[Tendrin]

You just whatabouted yourself there...

In all seriousness, if your only reference point for race relations is how minorities are treated in America, then of course everything is going to look like genocide. Luckily, not everyone is so cruel.

Good lord.