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  1. #13081
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    Quote Originally Posted by 4saken1 View Post
    I believe this is exactly the position that Mets is in. Trump has become a toxic asset. Better to endorse the Democratic candidate while maintaining a Republican controlled Senate, in effect making Biden a lame duck, and having a weak Biden Presidency will make for a stronger case for a Republican President in 2024. It has the added benefit of making Mets appear to be somebody that has more reasonable 'moderate' views.
    Of course, Trump would most likely want to be the candidate for 2024 due to his ego and I think Mets realised that.

  2. #13082
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    Quote Originally Posted by 4saken1 View Post
    I believe this is exactly the position that Mets is in. Trump has become a toxic asset. Better to endorse the Democratic candidate while maintaining a Republican controlled Senate, in effect making Biden a lame duck, and having a weak Biden Presidency will make for a stronger case for a Republican President in 2024. It has the added benefit of making Mets appear to be somebody that has more reasonable 'moderate' views.
    Except his argument is that moderate like Mitt have been doing a good job against Trump when the opposite is true. Mitt's extremely weak against vaguely competent competition, and this includes Trump.


  3. #13083
    Ultimate Member Mister Mets's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Revolutionary_Jack View Post
    Not any good reasons. Clarence Thomas was accused credibly of sexual misconduct by Anita Hill and other employees. And even then when it came to vote, Thomas got confirmed with Democrat Senators voting to confirm him. Brett Kavanaugh was also credibly accused of sexual misconduct. If the Republicans can't do basic background checks and hire clean candidates, then it's their fault and not the Democrats.



    Every word Ted Kennedy said was true.



    Estrada was filibustered because he was being rushed through despite the fact that he had no experience as a judge, no career as an academic and aside from being recommended by The Federalist Society, had no other credentials aside from working on the legal team of Bush v. Gore. In other words an obvious crony appointment by the Republicans much like the slew of incompetents McConnell has been stacking the judiciary with during Trump's term.

    Again this is bad faith. Democrats raised legitimate complaints about the appointments Republicans made but you equate the fact that these complaints were made as equivalent to Republican escalation. They aren't.
    The problem with the Clarence Thomas and Kavanaugh hearings wasn't about Democrats taking allegations seriously, but about how they went about it. For example, both allegations came very late in the confirmation process.

    With Clarence Thomas, the FBi ruled that Anita Hill's claims were not credible. Her charges were not corroborated or substantiated. No one else came forward to accuse Clarence Thomas of wrongdoing. Her allegations against Clarence Thomas also came after the confirmation hearings, and she makes a press conference the day before what was supposed to be the final vote.

    With Brett Kavanaugh, the Democrats sat on the information during the initial FBI investigation. You can say that Republicans should have vetted Kavanaugh more strenuously, but it is difficult to learn about an allegation from a woman who has only shared it with a handful of people. And then after the judicial committee hearing was completed, a Democratic staffer leaked Ford's allegation to the press. It is worth noting that the timing was convenient for Democrats, as delays in the nomination would push it closer and closer to the elections, where Democrats were seen as having a chance at winning a majority in the Senate (they ended up losing a few seats.) There were also the references to really ridiculous allegations that high school students in the 1980s repeatedly ran parties in which college-aged women were gang-raped.

    Kennedy exaggerated greatly, unless you think the guy opposed the 1960s Civil Rights act in the 1980s, and would have outlawed the teaching of evolution. One problem with the Bork hearings is that it showed that potential judges should not be honest about their views, that it isn't enough to be qualified and of good character. Professor Elena Kagan praised his honesty, but did not practice it herself when she became a nominee.

    https://www.lawweekly.org/col/2019/4...ge-robert-bork

    Estrada received a unanimous rating of Well-qualified by the American Bar Association. He had significant accomplishments, as an editor of the Harvard Law Review, clerk for Anthony Kennedy, Assistant US Attorney and Assistant Solicitor General. He had pretty decent credentials. And we do have it in writing that Democrats were worried about him because of his ethnicity.



    Quote Originally Posted by ChangingStation View Post
    Of course, Trump would most likely want to be the candidate for 2024 due to his ego and I think Mets realised that.
    I've stated the possibility a few times.

    It isn't clear that he'll run. It also isn't clear that he'd win the primary if he did (he's popular right now with the party but a big part of that is that he won; what happens to his reputation when he's a loser?) It might end up being helpful for the party's image if the 2024 candidate will have actually beaten Trump.
    Last edited by Mister Mets; 10-18-2020 at 04:00 PM.
    Sincerely,
    Thomas Mets

  4. #13084
    Latverian ambassador Iron Maiden's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by godisawesome View Post
    For me, personally, as a former Never-Trumper Republican who now likely qualifies as a moderate Democrat, it’s not so much just Trump or just the Rpeublican Party; it’s the way both have come together to exacerbate and poison that side of politics.

    While Trump definitely provided someone direction and force to the GOP to create Trumpism, it would be a mistake to think he hadn’t also seized onto a movement that had been growing to control the GOP beforehand, or that the movement exercise some answering control over him as well.

    Fascism requires more than just a single demagogue - it requires collaborators, willing followers, and the growth of the more grotesque parts of the human mind among the populace.

    Getting rid of Trump will damage his personal cult of perosloty, and lead the fascistic section of the GOP looking for a new partner... but it’s not going to immediately defuse a situation whereby factions of the GOP that once represented traditionalists, capitalists, and Christ Followers have allowed the slaves to fully transform into vicious bigots, kleptocrats, and “Christian Pharisees.”

    There was already a part of the GOP more likely to punish others for being different instead of use what worked on the past for security in the present, already a part more likely to be lazy and greedy in the current economic quarter than plan ahead towards long term profit and to value comparative wealth over “the rabble” instead of actual wealth for all, and already “believers” far more likely to crucify Christ for valuing people over culture and comfort rather than show the fruits of the spirit towards strangers.

    Fox News was already poisonous before Trump came to power.

    There’s a reason why John McCain’s defining actions in his last years, preventing McConnel’s Repeal and Replace maneuver on Obamacare and having Obama give his eulogy, have greater impact than just as “Never-Trumper” moves - both are just as rooted in acknowledging the way the GOP was wrong in defining itself as just Anti-Obama in the decade before his death... even as McCain himself was a part of that movement.
    Agree totally, esp about Fox News. They were at it long before Trump decided to run for POTUS. Just wanted to add ...McCain was contentious to be sure. But when he knew he was losing his battle to brain cancer he called Obama and requested that Obama be one of those to deliver one of the eulogies at his funeral.

  5. #13085
    Ultimate Member Mister Mets's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChangingStation View Post
    Watergate damaged the GOPs credibility in a way it took Raegan to fix. And even then there were a perfect storm of factors that enabled it.

    The first Bush screwed up on Election Year and paid for it. And the second Bush only won due to one state.

    The same happened in 2008 with the Recession, and the unpopular (if not) illegal Iraq War the Bush Administration put forth. Combined with Obama's charisma it's no surprise he won.

    Trump was facing an already deeply unpopular candidate who only got further bogged down and he still lost the popular vote (though not by much).

    You're not wrong about the tendency of both sides to think they have the upper hand and get cocky, but I get the feeling that the Republicans are going to have a harder time recovering every time.
    We'll see.

    It's possible Democrats will dominate for some time. There is the potential advantage that if a Democrat wins in 2024, that candidate (probably Harris) will have the benefit of running as an incumbent in 2028, which gives the party a better than usual chance of holding the White House for three terms (usually a tough trick.)

    But we also don't know what the future's going to look like, or what the controversies of the future are going to be. There are some universal tendencies, including the party in the White House is going to make some controversial decisions that have major tradeoffs and piss off a lot of voters.

    Quote Originally Posted by 4saken1 View Post
    I believe this is exactly the position that Mets is in. Trump has become a toxic asset. Better to endorse the Democratic candidate while maintaining a Republican controlled Senate, in effect making Biden a lame duck, and having a weak Biden Presidency will make for a stronger case for a Republican President in 2024. It has the added benefit of making Mets appear to be somebody that has more reasonable 'moderate' views.
    If you were to rank all American voters from left to right, do you think I'm further from the middle than most of the other posters here?
    Sincerely,
    Thomas Mets

  6. #13086

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    The Ice Cube/Trump Campaign Platinum Plan Controversy:

    print conversation with Jamil Smith of Rolling Stone:
    https://www.rollingstone.com/music/m...rview-1076681/

    video conversation with roland martin & alicia garza
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vTWTThnXTqA

    In a very generic sense, I don't fault him for the basic notion of approaching a sitting president about a black-empowerment policy/policies proposal, but especially at this point, it would seem to be obvious to most people that characters like Mr. 45 and his lieutenants (Mr. Kushner, Mr. Mnuchin, etc.) are simply not honest brokers, no matter how well-meaning you may be.
    Even though Ice Cube has since clarified that he did not endorse Trump (nor Biden), the tweet by Katrina Pierson helped to give cover to the racially bigoted cohorts who are voting for Trump (and the self-described social moderates) to observe this from afar and conclude that Trump is not as racist as his detractors tend to say. Additionally, it takes advantage of the historical cynicism of cohorts of American Black Men in particular, where the tendency is to equivocate white politicians on both major parties to be racist or neo-racist, so voting is considered a fool's errand. Especially in the post-hip-hop era, you have people who grew up with continued urban underemployment, the expanded police harassment/drug arrests era, and so the cynicism is hardened even further.
    Getting rid of Trump will damage his personal cult of perosloty, and lead the fascistic section of the GOP looking for a new partner... but it’s not going to immediately defuse a situation whereby factions of the GOP that once represented traditionalists, capitalists, and Christ Followers have allowed the slaves to fully transform into vicious bigots, kleptocrats, and “Christian Pharisees.”

    There was already a part of the GOP more likely to punish others for being different instead of use what worked on the past for security in the present, already a part more likely to be lazy and greedy in the current economic quarter than plan ahead towards long term profit and to value comparative wealth over “the rabble” instead of actual wealth for all, and already “believers” far more likely to crucify Christ for valuing people over culture and comfort rather than show the fruits of the spirit towards strangers.

    Fox News was already poisonous before Trump came to power.

    There’s a reason why John McCain’s defining actions in his last years, preventing McConnel’s Repeal and Replace maneuver on Obamacare and having Obama give his eulogy, have greater impact than just as “Never-Trumper” moves - both are just as rooted in acknowledging the way the GOP was wrong in defining itself as just Anti-Obama in the decade before his death... even as McCain himself was a part of that movement.
    Entrenched cultural entitlements and casual racial supremacy views are at the core of this. People can rationalize all they want about why they voted for Trump: (economic anxieties, non-traditional politician demeanor, non-"insider')- despite his atrocious lack of formal credentials, policy experience or even a professional demeanor, he became the darling of Make America Great ("for wh_te people") Again. Clearly his most ardent supporters are either capable of compartmentalizing to an obscene degree, at minimum, or are just plain dim-witted and defiantly ignorant. They have no connection to empathy for vulnerable populations. They still hold on to the tacit racial promise of being morally superior to anyone who is not white and protestant Christian (of course, there are some "alt-right" Catholics out there, too, e.g, Rudy Giuliani, Rick Santorum). It doesn't matter whether they openly, consciously identify with the KKK and Nazis or not. Most don't. However, the antediluvian social attitudes and conclusions persist. This has filtered into the results of any number of elections at all levels, not just the President, unfortunately...
    Last edited by Hypestyle; 10-18-2020 at 04:29 PM.

  7. #13087
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mister Mets View Post
    We'll see.

    It's possible Democrats will dominate for some time. There is the potential advantage that if a Democrat wins in 2024, that candidate (probably Harris) will have the benefit of running as an incumbent in 2028, which gives the party a better than usual chance of holding the White House for three terms (usually a tough trick.)

    But we also don't know what the future's going to look like, or what the controversies of the future are going to be. There are some universal tendencies, including the party in the White House is going to make some controversial decisions that have major tradeoffs and piss off a lot of voters.
    Of course, the longer certain controversial devisions remain in place, the more people experience in its upsides and become willing to overlook its downsides. (Obamacare had that kind of result tho it ironically had Republican origins)

  8. #13088
    Incredible Member 4saken1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mister Mets View Post
    If you were to rank all American voters from left to right, do you think I'm further from the middle than most of the other posters here?
    Farther from the middle to what ends might be a better question. Currently, being unapologetically far right isn't a savvy place to be for many on the right. Playing the long game and feigning to be more moderate during the current political climate is a far better hand to play.
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  9. #13089
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    Quote Originally Posted by 4saken1 View Post
    One conviction versus over 100 ISN'T. EVEN. COMPARABLE!
    Politely, you misread that one if that is what you got out of it.

    The issue is not "Democratic Party"/"Republican Party"

    The issue is actually: The currently less than ethically solid Democratic Party versus the more ethically solid party that they could be.

    The latter is exactly what Warren was talking about when she laid out what would probably not be acceptable if she wound up being President.

  10. #13090
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChangingStation View Post
    Of course, Trump would most likely want to be the candidate for 2024 due to his ego and I think Mets realised that.
    So does anyone here really think that Trump would try to be only the second President (after Grover Cleveland) to lose re-election, but then come back four years later to win back the Presidency? Trump might not even be living in the US in 2024.
    Watching television is not an activity.

  11. #13091
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    Quote Originally Posted by 4saken1 View Post
    Nobody here is saying it should or shouldn't be acceptable. Just that it is beyond Joe Biden's purview. Is that so hard to comprehend?
    Unless Biden has a family that has right around "Zero..." respect for his desire to be a politician who is on more solid ethical footing?

    It really is not.

    There is an entire world where a politician's child can make a buck without getting withing a country mile of potentially creating an issue for their parent.

    Never mind a job where the parent is going to have to make the case for what would appear to be an almost completely unqualified child.

  12. #13092
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    Matter of fact, let's lay out an actually possible scenario...

    Michelle Obama runs for political office, and wins.

    Is there anyone here who can actually picture her tolerating either of her kids having a job where it even appears that they got the job based on the office she is holding?

  13. #13093
    Incredible Member 4saken1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by numberthirty View Post
    Unless Biden has a family that has right around "Zero..." respect for his desire to be a politician who is on more solid ethical footing?
    It wasn't even an issue until Joe became a serious contender for the Democratic nomination. Hmmmmm........maybe because it's really a non-issue that has been amplified for the weak minded. Maybe no matter who the nominee was, the Republican Party would have had a 'scandal' ready for dumbfucks to believe.
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  14. #13094
    Ultimate Member numberthirty's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 4saken1 View Post
    It wasn't even an issue until Joe became a serious contender for the Democratic nomination. Hmmmmm........maybe because it's really a non-issue that has been amplified for the weak minded. Maybe no matter who the nominee was, the Republican Party would have had a 'scandal' ready for dumbfucks to believe.
    Politely, you are incorrect and this garbage is a part of a pattern when it comes to Biden.

    https://www.gq.com/story/joe-biden-bankruptcy-bill

    How Biden Helped Strip Bankruptcy Protection From Millions Just Before a Recession
    Biden at the time stressed that he wasn't acting on behalf of the credit card companies, and as Matt Ygelsias writes at Vox, Biden's camp claims now that BAPCPA was an effort to get some concessions out of a Republican bill that would have been a bigger disaster without his intervention. But to his critics, there were red flags. For example, one of the biggest credit card companies in Delaware, MBNA, hired Joe Biden's son Hunter in 1996. Even after Hunter became a federal lobbyist in 2001, he stayed on at MBNA as a consultant at a fee of $100,000 per year, meaning he was pulling in a six-figure salary at the same time his father was pushing for the industry's top priorities. Biden's interests were so aligned with MBNA's that in 1999 he was forced to defend himself by declaring, "I am not the senator from MBNA." But even without the shadows of impropriety, critics of Biden's support for bankruptcy reform had plenty of fodder.

  15. #13095
    Fighting Injustice on CBR SUPERECWFAN1's Avatar
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    It seems that the New York Post is now in chaos. Writers and editors are saying they didn't want their names on the story according to New York Times. Something has to be coming and were seeing scrambling.
    "The story so far: As usual, Ginger and I are engaged in our quest to find out what the hell is going on and save humanity from my nemesis, some bastard who is presumably responsible." - Sir Digby Chicken Caesar.

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