1. #34726
    Old school comic book fan WestPhillyPunisher's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tendrin View Post
    Like, comedy can be offensive, I get that, but I'm still waiting for someone to explain to me where anything he said about Trans people is 'funny' and anything other than harmful at this point. There are comedians out there who are just as clever and funny as Chapelle who don't use their platforms to target trans women.
    Does comedy HAVE to be offensive? Say what you will about Bill Cosby being a slimy rapist, but, back in the day, he never failed to make me laugh out loud without insulting people or using foul langauge. Was Cosby one of a kind as a comedian? Perhaps, but I feel his brand of humor is sorely missed these days as comedians take the easy route (or low road, depending on your point of view) of being vulgar and controversial for the sake of laughs, leading to the sort of mess Chappelle is in today.
    Last edited by WestPhillyPunisher; 10-18-2021 at 03:23 AM.
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  2. #34727
    Ultimate Member Mister Mets's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by babyblob View Post
    The thing is a boycott will really I think be the only thing that works. Dave clearly does not care. Every time he is called out for his hate speech he doubles down, laughs it off and calls it part of his bit. So he aint going to change. Companies do not care about some one being outraged at them. The world we live in it happens all the time. But they care about the bottom line and thier profits. it is not enough for people to be upset and say "Hey take Chappelle off the air." because they will not. He makes them money and I am sure people have signed up just to watch his special and see what the anger is about.

    How many Gay or trans people watch Netflix? I do. All my friends who are gay do as well. As do my friends who say they support the gay and Trans community. I am pretty sure a lot of gay and Trans watch Netflix. So instead of saying "Take Chappelle off the air." They need to say "Take him off the air. We are going to cancel our membership until you do." if they lose even 10 percent of their membership they will take notice. And they may at the end of the day do something. They will listen to the bank more then random angry people on a message board or on Twitter.

    Lots of people called for a boycott of Twitter and Face book till they got rid of Trump and cracked down on the platforms that gave hate speech a place to post. Yet I really havnt heard the same calls against Netflix which is odd.
    It doesn't need to be ten percent, but it's a fair point that a boycott of Netflix would be the main way for ordinary people to have a voice.

    This seems indicative of how this story is playing differently among ordinary people than it does in progressive spaces.

    Quote Originally Posted by SUPERECWFAN1 View Post
    Netflix revealed his special I believe ranks 2nd to Squid Game right now in views on platform. The saying of Eric Bischoff always rings true...'Controversy creates $$$" .
    It's possible.

    It could very well be that a Chapelle special would always get great ratings.

    However, it could also be that the main result of the arguments is to bring attention to what he said to people who don't think he said anything wrong, or certainly don't think it merits the outrage.

    Quote Originally Posted by JackDaw View Post
    Never seen or heard any of his stuff…so no idea how offensive it is.

    But surely he would get a “pass” if he was talking about a ton of other things?

    I can’t really see many people really getting worried if he attacked politicians, lawyers, police, medical profession, etc.

    Indeed he may well have chosen this particular material because he knew it was more likely to cause offence and controversy. If so, it says a lot (I think) about his approach to comedy.
    There wasn't a freakout about what he said when he said "Poor white people love, and I mean they fucking love... Heroin."

    Quote Originally Posted by Tendrin View Post
    https://www.essence.com/op-ed/black-...lles-rhetoric/




    yes, I'm sure that his target is just merely 'woke scolds'. *eyeroll*

    People will tell themselves anything.
    The detail about crime statistics is relevant to why people are upset at Chapelle, but doesn't really address the point about his target, unless you believe he is intentionally saying things in order to increase violence against trans women.
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  3. #34728
    Ultimate Member Tendrin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mister Mets View Post
    It could very well be that a Chapelle special would always get great ratings.

    However, it could also be that the main result of the arguments is to bring attention to what he said to people who don't think he said anything wrong, or certainly don't think it merits the outrage.
    Or, as I said upthread, people could just not care enough about trans people.

    There wasn't a freakout about what he said when he said "Poor white people love, and I mean they fucking love... Heroin."[/quote]

    I shouldn't have to explain to you the difference between poking fun at members of the majority and a vulnerable minority. 'poor white people love heroin!' is not even remotely in the same ball park as 'trans women aren't real women and I'm on the side of people who think they're sexual predators and want to strip them of basic civil protections'.

    The detail about crime statistics is relevant to why people are upset at Chapelle, but doesn't really address the point about his target, unless you believe he is intentionally saying things in order to increase violence against trans women.
    Good lord.

  4. #34729

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    Quote Originally Posted by WestPhillyPunisher View Post
    Does comedy HAVE to be offensive? Say what you will about Bill Cosby being a slimy rapist, but, back in the day, he never failed to make me laugh out loud without insulting people or using foul langauge. Was Cosby one of a kind as a comedian? Perhaps, but I feel his brand of humor is sorely missed these days as comedians take the easy route (or low road, depending on your point of view) of being vulgar and controversial for the sake of laughs, leading to the sort of mess Chappelle is in today.
    Cosby famously would invite black comedians to his mansion, tell them "you set back African Americans 50 years" or call them on the phone to criticize their act for swearing, all the while having the rape-skeletons in his closet that made him a hypocrite. Eddie Murphy even talked about it in his second stand-up special, RAW, that he got a phone call from him, and Richard Pryor reassured him and Cosby needed to STFU.

    Murphy's homophobia in the 80s wasn't recognized as homophobia. It wasn't the worst homophobia out there, either, given what was coming out of actual politicians. It sure didn't help, but Murphy's act moved away from commentary on gays, and more stayed on impressions of other famous people or silly side characters he'd play in his films in heavy makeup.

    Like, I love Sam Kinison's act from back in the day and that he challenged the hypocrisy of religion based on how he himself lost his faith after his wife cheated on him. I guarantee you that a lot of his act does not hold up well. I can recall him mocking starving children in Africa for not leaving the desert they lived in because nothing would ever grow there... like... today? F***, that would be a bad look.

    Because we should know better, and again, know that whomever your jokes or "jokes" are aimed at are not people who are suffering, or facing oppression of some kind. Especially if the satire you're presenting dehumanizes or makes light of that plight.

    The way the joke needs to be framed is... you can say the bad thing, but only if it's to mock the sort of ***hole that would say it. If someone's doing a Donald Trump impression, for example, and expounds on racist or out of touch things he's said to make him even more insensitive and an ***hole (See: Baldwin, Alec) I wouldn't hold them in contempt for just being in character to demonstrate that the monster he's mocking is actually monstrous enough they could be believed to have had said what the person parodying them did.
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  5. #34730
    Invincible Jersey Girl Tami's Avatar
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    At Axel Springer, Politico’s New Owner, Allegations of Sex, Lies and a Secret Payment

    I didn't realize that an overseas business was buying up US news media.

    A high-level editor at the powerful German tabloid Bild was trying to break things off with a woman who was a junior employee at the paper. He was 36. She was 25.

    “If they find out that I’m having an affair with a trainee, I’ll lose my job,” the editor, Julian Reichelt, told her in November 2016, according to testimony she later gave investigators from a law firm hired by Bild’s parent company, Axel Springer, to look into the editor’s workplace behavior. I obtained a transcript through someone not directly involved.

    Just before the editor spoke those words, another woman at the paper had lodged a sexual harassment complaint against the publisher of Bild. But Mr. Reichelt’s relationship with the junior employee continued, she testified, and he was promoted to the top newsroom job in 2017.

    Mr. Reichelt then gave her a high-profile job, one she felt she wasn’t ready for, and he continued to summon her to hotel rooms near the gleaming Berlin tower occupied by Axel Springer, she said.
    “That’s how it always goes at Bild,” she told the investigators. “Those who sleep with the boss get a better job.”

    This account is drawn from an interview conducted in the spring by a law firm retained by Axel Springer for an investigation that quickly closed, clearing Mr. Reichelt. A spokeswoman for Axel Springer and Mr. Reichelt, Deirdre Latour, said the woman’s testimony included “some inaccurate facts,” but declined to specify which ones.

    Mr. Reichelt did not, as he feared, lose his job when his relationship with the woman, as well his conduct toward other women at Bild, became public. Instead, Mr. Reichelt, who denied abusing his authority, took a brief leave and then was reinstated as perhaps the most powerful newspaper editor in Europe after the company determined that his actions did not warrant a dismissal.

    Bild is the flagship publication of Axel Springer, a titan of German media since after World War II. The company is now focusing much of its energy on the United States. American media types may know it mainly for its leader, Mathias Döpfner, a charismatic chief executive who moved more swiftly than most traditional publishers to embrace the internet.
    But as the reports on the Bild investigation suggest, the company’s workplace culture may be stuck in a time warp. And as Axel Springer moved across the Atlantic this summer on its spending spree, the company’s aggressive and — a key American executive said — “sneaky” style of doing business generated friction.

    To get a feel for the German company now emerging as a major player in American, and global, media, it’s important to understand the man for whom it was named, a towering figure in postwar media.

    Axel Springer was a fierce anti-Communist and supporter of Israel, and his papers were hostile to the student leftists of the 1960s and 1970s. The Red Army Faction bombed Axel Springer’s offices in Hamburg in 1972. In 1974, the Nobel Prize-winning novelist Heinrich Böll published “The Lost Honor of Katharina Blum,” about a woman whose life is ruined by an aggressive reporter for a Bild-like paper after she has an affair with a left-wing militant.
    Bild’s politics are now center-right, but have grown sharp-edged under Mr. Reichelt, a former war correspondent. The tabloid initially welcomed Syrian refugees, then turned bitterly critical of immigration (though it is also hostile to the far-right AfD party). A Washington correspondent for Bild complained, in internal Slack messages that subsequently leaked, of a slant toward Donald Trump in the coverage of the 2020 U.S. presidential debates. The paper has also attacked the German government’s Covid restrictions and its main public health expert.
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  6. #34731
    Fighting Injustice on CBR SUPERECWFAN1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Malvolio View Post
    And sometimes they're exactly what you've heard about them. I've experienced both ends of the personality spectrum when it comes to comic book creators. When my mother and I met John Byrne, he yelled at us, well not just us, everyone waiting for an autograph after a panel discussion. He said, "You people have no idea what it's like to have to do this!" After I got his autograph, my Mom said, "Well, he was very rude." I replied, "Yeah, I've heard that about him."

    On the other hand, at another convention, I waited in line to get John Romita Jr.'s autograph when, just as I made it to the front of the line, JR Jr.'s pen ran out of ink. Silver lining: I got a chance to chat with him while a show runner got him a new pen. JR Jr. could not have been nicer. He talked about how much he enjoyed drawing Spider-Man and Thor, among other Marvel characters, and then he signed my copy of the new Thor #1.

    Having seen how Byrne online at times and stories , is anyone shocked about this. Lucky for me ...all the comic pros I met over a decade at conventions have been really great to interact with. Roy Thomas , Jonathon Hickman , Chris Claremont , Mark Silvestre , Robert Kirkman , Denny O'Neil etc. All great nice people and more.

    Quote Originally Posted by WestPhillyPunisher View Post
    Does comedy HAVE to be offensive? Say what you will about Bill Cosby being a slimy rapist, but, back in the day, he never failed to make me laugh out loud without insulting people or using foul langauge. Was Cosby one of a kind as a comedian? Perhaps, but I feel his brand of humor is sorely missed these days as comedians take the easy route (or low road, depending on your point of view) of being vulgar and controversial for the sake of laughs, leading to the sort of mess Chappelle is in today.
    Cosby was great at telling stories about his children and being a parent. I agree he was great at this type of stand up as we saw for a few years. Over time I'd see Dana Carvey (back in his young days) and Robin Williams then discuss their kids and moments they had in stand up. You can tell the influence Cosby had in those spots to discuss kids etc.

    I think we have seen stand up comedians do discuss their families and kids at times (hell Dave does as I brought up how his son wanted to meet Kevin Hart) but no one can really manage a full set like Cosby could and make it work. He was unique and had a clean style that made it flow so good. And yeah I loved a lot of his stand up too back in the early 1980's.
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    September 2021 was a hard month. 1st Norm McDonald died and then we learned Disney is ruining Indiana Jones in 2022. Just a hard month to take. Hopefully the film tanks.

  7. #34732
    Ultimate Member Tendrin's Avatar
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    Just got a phone alert that Colin Powell has died of C-19.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SUPERECWFAN1 View Post
    Cosby was great at telling stories about his children and being a parent. I agree he was great at this type of stand up as we saw for a few years. Over time I'd see Dana Carvey (back in his young days) and Robin Williams then discuss their kids and moments they had in stand up. You can tell the influence Cosby had in those spots to discuss kids etc.
    Dana Carvey is one of my favorite people all-time in comedy...

    And honestly, there's stuff from twenty years ago doesn't hold up well. There's some ethnic caricatures in Master of Disguise that come to mind, but here's the thing...

    When I watch Dana Carvey NOW, he knows better. If someone brought it up, he'd own up to it and apologize. But he saves his impressions to flatter people who deserve it (recently his Anthony Fauci) or to mock people who truly have it coming (the John Bolton he did on Colbert).

    Comedy isn't a perfect science. It isn't.

    What I'm seeing from Chapelle is a committed campaign of bullying. There's not jokes. It's, "I refuse to acknowledge these people with respect, and f*** THEM for getting angry about it." When that's a running plotline that's gone on for years and you dedicate a half hour of a special to attacking a group that's already marginalized, you're over the line of what you're using that platform for.
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  9. #34734
    Extraordinary Member babyblob's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tendrin View Post
    Just got a phone alert that Colin Powell has died of C-19.
    Just saw this. And he was fully vaccinated as well. So this will give the anti vax nuts more "Why bother?" Ammo
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  10. #34735
    Old school comic book fan WestPhillyPunisher's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tendrin View Post
    Just got a phone alert that Colin Powell has died of C-19.
    Just heard about it. Didn't even know he had been stricken by the virus.

    Quote Originally Posted by worstblogever View Post
    Dana Carvey is one of my favorite people all-time in comedy...

    And honestly, there's stuff from twenty years ago doesn't hold up well. There's some ethnic caricatures in Master of Disguise that come to mind, but here's the thing...

    When I watch Dana Carvey NOW, he knows better. If someone brought it up, he'd own up to it and apologize. But he saves his impressions to flatter people who deserve it (recently his Anthony Fauci) or to mock people who truly have it coming (the John Bolton he did on Colbert).

    Comedy isn't a perfect science. It isn't.

    What I'm seeing from Chapelle is a committed campaign of bullying. There's not jokes. It's, "I refuse to acknowledge these people with respect, and f*** THEM for getting angry about it." When that's a running plotline that's gone on for years and you dedicate a half hour of a special to attacking a group that's already marginalized, you're over the line of what you're using that platform for.
    Worse than simply marginalized, transpeople have often come under physical attack, even murdered, making what Chappelle's doing even more wretched and disgusting.
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    Quote Originally Posted by WestPhillyPunisher View Post
    Just heard about it. Didn't even know he had been stricken by the virus.
    Neither did I so this was a bit of a surprise.
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    Old school comic book fan WestPhillyPunisher's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by babyblob View Post
    Just saw this. And he was fully vaccinated as well. So this will give the anti vax nuts more "Why bother?" Ammo
    Less Than 0.001 Percent of Fully Vaccinated Americans Died From a COVID-19 Infection

    I'll gladly take those odds over whistling past the graveyard 24/7 by being unvaccinated. The anti-vax nuts can go to hell, and probably will if they contract the virus.
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  13. #34738
    Ultimate Member Kirby101's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WestPhillyPunisher View Post
    Less Than 0.001 Percent of Fully Vaccinated Americans Died From a COVID-19 Infection

    I'll gladly take those odds over whistling past the graveyard 24/7 by being unvaccinated. The anti-vax nuts can go to hell, and probably will if they contract the virus.
    Yes this, people die wearing seat belts, so they are useless, right?
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    Invincible Jersey Girl Tami's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by babyblob View Post
    Just saw this. And he was fully vaccinated as well. So this will give the anti vax nuts more "Why bother?" Ammo
    Twitter is all abuzz about fully vaccinated people dying now. This is going to make things much harder.

    New Info: Colin Powell also had Cancer. That may have been a contributing factor. That and his age.
    Last edited by Tami; 10-18-2021 at 06:02 AM.
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  15. #34740
    Old school comic book fan WestPhillyPunisher's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tami View Post
    Twitter is all abuzz about fully vaccinated people dying now. This is going to make things much harder.

    New Info: Colin Powell also had Cancer. That may have been a contributing factor. That and his age.
    What are the chances that tidbit won't be mentioned, least of all on Faux News which has made a cottage industry out having promoted anti-vaxxing?

    Again, just 0.001 percent of fully vaccinated people have died from the virus.
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