All purpose news and politics thread part VI: This Is Not The Time For Posing

[Steel Inquisitor]

Maybe it's time for the Democrats to stop putting forward the same ''Third Wave'' centrist candidates and try something different next time. Yeah, Biden won, but not by much and frankly, if it wasn't Covid-19, Trump would have won a second term.

That's not hw this works. This is about rival groups in the party fighting over who get to lead it, and the left is really bad at winning in that arena. Biden got within spitting distance of winning the presidency right now and won the nomination, thats more than Bernie can say. There's this strange meme going around that just because Biden and the centrists don't dominate everything the left would clean up. If the latter were true the positions would be reversed in reality. It's magical thinking, not based on fact.

I think Biden ran too much on not being Trump and if people want to bring up his progress agenda (that there is was no guarantee he was going to implement if he won), it's dead in the water because the Dems could not move the needle on the Senate. The Clinton ''Third-wave'' machine is a failure, break it, burn it and then bury it, it belongs back in 1992.

If Biden candidate can't do this, no way would a leftist candidate do this. The don't get too inherent Biden's strengths, they have their own weaknesses. People were outraged at Biden being a "socialist" think how worse it would be if that were not only true but they were on tape signal boosting Fidel Castro more than once in 2019. Many have tried, instead the end up getting burnt.

[SUPERECWFAN1]

It appears...Arizona is still Biden. The latest results still have him ahead and this is 30+ minutes ago.


https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.azc...amp/6093637002

[The Overlord]

Well Bernie wasn't a third wave candidate but he was too extreme for the more moderate left.

My assumption is that if this somehow fails to stay in Biden's favor and Trump gets 4 more years AOC or Harris will be the 2024 candidate. Maybe both on the same ticket.

It is possible Bernie could have been more competitive against Trump this time or 2016.

The fact is the Dems have been running the same type of politicans since the 1990s, with diminishing results at this point, maybe Bernie would won or lost or done the same result as Biden did, that is just speculation. What I do know is the third wave centerists have done a poor job at countering Trump brand fascism. Biden won due to Trump being hobbled by Covid-19, if not for that, Trump would have coasted to victory.

Not being Trump is not a valuable position in 2024, time to develop something else.

[zinderel]

But without the electoral college, states like Nevada, Arizona, Wisconsin, and Michigan wouldn't matter in the election. It would always be about New York, California, and Florida. The electoral college keeps the smaller states relevant.

'States' don't vote. People do. The EC allows right wingers to maintain a stranglehold on power that give voting 'rights' to LAND, while undercutting the actual people.

The states have a way of balancing the lack of voting power their population gives them, though, in the form of having more legislators. We dont need the EC to give EXTRA political power to states who already HAVE extra political power.

[Jackalope89]

Well, this is concerning.

https://twitter.com/dlauer/status/13...16642209607680

[kingaliencracker]

It is possible Bernie could have been more competitive against Trump this time or 2016.

The fact is the Dems have been running the same type of politicans since the 1990s, with diminishing results at this point, maybe Bernie would won or lost or done the same result as Biden did, that is just speculation. What I do know is the third wave centerists have done a poor job at countering Trump brand fascism. Biden won due to Trump being hobbled by Covid-19, if not for that, Trump would have coasted to victory.

Not being Trump is not a valuable position in 2024, time to develop something else.

I don't feel Obama was "the same type of politician"...

[The Overlord]

I don't feel Obama was "the same type of politician"...

Ultimately I do not think he was that different policy-wise from Bill Clinton. Different style sure, likely a better President than Clinton, but not that different on policy.

That's not hw this works. This is about rival groups in the party fighting over who get to lead it, and the left is really bad at winning in that arena. Biden got within spitting distance of winning the presidency right now and won the nomination, thats more than Bernie can say. There's this strange meme going around that just because Biden and the centrists don't dominate everything the left would clean up. If the latter were true the positions would be reversed in reality. It's magical thinking, not based on fact.

And did the Dems win the Senate? What is he going to do if he doesn't win the Senate? You seem to paper over their failures all the time: Al Gore lost, John Kerry lost, Hillary Clinton lost and Biden barely won and really only due to the fact that Trump got hobbled by Covid-19. They have done a piss poor job at fighting Trump fascism and I am not saying Bernie would clean up, now or in 2016, what I am saying is the so-called Centrist ideology has done a piss poor job at opposing Republican extremism.

Will Dems run on ''not being Republicans'' in 2024 or will they have a better message?

This is not a great victory, its barely winning by the skin of your teeth and having a diminished President as the prize, it's better than losing outright, but without the Senate, Biden is pretty limited in what he can do. It was not a big blue wave pollsters were talking about.

If Biden candidate can't do this, no way would a leftist candidate do this. The don't get too inherent Biden's strengths, they have their own weaknesses. People were outraged at Biden being a "socialist" think how worse it would be if that were not only true but they were on tape signal boosting Fidel Castro more than once in 2019. Many have tried, instead the end up getting burnt.

What were Biden's strengths? Why didn't his strengths translate into a bigger win? He barely won, despite Trump getting 200,000 people killed due to mishandling Covid-19. Also, they called Biden a socialist, so it doesn't matter who they run, the Republicans will call them socialists regardless.

It's pretty bad when it's a squeaker and Trump got 200,000 Americans killed on his watch.

[kingaliencracker]

'States' don't vote. People do. The EC allows right wingers to maintain a stranglehold on power that give voting 'rights' to LAND, while undercutting the actual people.

The states have a way of balancing the lack of voting power their population gives them, though, in the form of having more legislators. We dont need the EC to give EXTRA political power to states who already HAVE extra political power.

The electoral college debate only comes up when the popular vote doesn't align with the electoral delegates. No one cares when both line up, which is the vast majority of the time.

[KNIGHT OF THE LAKE]

Ultimately I do not think he was that different policy-wise from Bill Clinton. Different style sure, likely a better President than Clinton, but not that different on style.

He wasn't. He just ran differently in 2008 and promised a lot of hope and change. The truth is mainstream Democrats have a very hard time seeing the difference between Obama the person and Obama the President. Obama the President left alot of people dissatisified and unhappy.

[KNIGHT OF THE LAKE]

'States' don't vote. People do. The EC allows right wingers to maintain a stranglehold on power that give voting 'rights' to LAND, while undercutting the actual people.

The states have a way of balancing the lack of voting power their population gives them, though, in the form of having more legislators. We dont need the EC to give EXTRA political power to states who already HAVE extra political power.

Here's the issue the only reason it's a big deal is because of the reaportionanment act in 1929. That effectively threw the house out of balance. Now the House is a warped version of what it should be.

[babyblob]

I think the problem is The Dems were grossly over confident going into last night. Yes they flipped a couple House seats. But the GOP gained 5 seats and The Dems did not gain the number they were expecting. If Biden wins it is not the slam dunk they thought it would be (Yes the popular vote but I am talking the EC because that is what matters). It doesnt look like they will gain the Senate.

They could have done so much better I think but sadly did not. I think they wasted too much money in Ky on the Mitch/Magrath that they had no chance of winning and could have sent that else where.

And you know Trump is worried because the Twitter post a minute king has been very silent the last two days.

[zinderel]

The electoral college debate only comes up when the popular vote doesn't align with the electoral delegates. No one cares when both line up, which is the vast majority of the time.

I think it's an outdated, garbage system that undermines the democracy we are supposed to represent. No matter who wins or loses.

[KNIGHT OF THE LAKE]

It appears...Arizona is still Biden. The latest results still have him ahead and this is 30+ minutes ago.


https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.azc...amp/6093637002

Yes but Trump is gaining ground. I don't like this race anymore. Arizona was the safety net that allowed Biden to win without PA. He could have just taken NV and called it a night. The issue right now is that Trump is gaining in Ariizona which is making it a winnable state. Trump is leading in PA and we are hoping that the cities get us over the top. Trump is likely to take Georgia and North Carolina. And the one state Biden is leading in is only a by around 7500 votes (Nevada). Biden has more paths as of now but it's presuming two close states actually stay for him.

At this point if Biden wins it's going to between 270-290 with a very real scenario where the election is a 270-268 result.

This is getting dangerous.

[kingaliencracker]

I think it's an outdated, garbage system that undermines the democracy we are supposed to represent. No matter who wins or loses.

...except we're not a democracy. We're a republic. There is a difference.

[Mecegirl]

It is possible Bernie could have been more competitive against Trump this time or 2016.

Bernie or someone with his political leanings, have to convince the party that they would be the best shot. It isn't just the DNC they have to convince, it is the people. The primary race always gets boiled down to the delegates but there is a popular vote count. And in 2016 and 2020 Bernie lost the popular vote. Now he got closer in 2020 and maybe in a potential 2024 a progressive candidate could win. But if they can't convince the people that agree with them 75 to 90 percent of the time, how effective could they be with people with a completely different political ideology?