All purpose news and politics thread part VI: This Is Not The Time For Posing

[numberthirty]

...


I really don't get the leftist idea that something bad happened in the past so we should just pretend it never happened and learn nothing from it. That's a conservative stance on politics. Leftists are supposed to be about progressive, in theory. Progress moves things forward, not ignoring the past.

That's just calling a spade a spade, how can we try to solve a problem when the problem isn't acknowledged? The worst people don't stop doing that by describing them wrong as if they weren't doing something bad. They do A and B anyway, they're not there for a conversation they're there to attack and be abusive anyone who is a Bernie supporter. You don't get bad people to stop by doing nothing or just agreeing with what they're doing - that makes it worse. It's irritating how you go back and forth on the Bernie Bros being a thing, find a lane and stick to it. This isn't a theoretical exercise.

Moving the goal posts, this is about the Bernie Bros and how the memes relate to them. I suggest you do more research into who the Bernie Bros are because they're not your friends, they're the kind of leftists who would be ok with the 6th had the people responsible been leftists. This isn't about "differing opinions," don't be patronising. Bernie Bros weren't "challenging" anyone's beliefs they were openly attacking and abusing people. Including politicians.

Put simply...

Stop insisting on solving a problem that is not really much of a problem.

There isn't really much of a "We..." in this scenario of yours.

[CSTowle]

I'm not going to ignore what happened amongst Bernie's base just because they lost, it's troubling how many on the left are ok normalising what they did and didn't lift a finger when it mattered. The memes are part of how they were radicalised. It's incredibly irresponsible to not learn from the past when peoples lives were in danger from extremists. The fringe don't have to be mainstream to be dangerous. QUanon were murdering people long before they attacked the Capitol.

This isn't about free speech, it's about trying to stop radicalisation, not normalising abuse and protecting people from being attacked simply because they disagree with someone over a candidate. Just because you can't be bothered looking into why Bernie Bros are bad doesn't stop others from doing this, it's not like there weren't numerous articles about that group over the years examining how they come to be and what they do.

https://www.vox.com/policy-and-polit...e-dirtbag-left



The memes are a symptom, not the disease. I'm not sure what they should do about the memes but they needed to do something rather than nothing. Does someone have to die before it has to be believed? We got stalking, doxxing, death threats, destroying businesses. It got so bad Democratic staffers hired security to protect themselves.


Moving the goal posts. The left really does a terrible job of self policing their bad actors, it's disgraceful. If it was as bad as you're claiming that wouldn't have stopped them being relevant. Care to name when Democratic officials and politicians were threatened by the Obama Boys? Because that happen with the Bernie Bros. I didn't say there weren't bad actors with other candidates. None of those are the equivalent to what the Bernie Bros did. Wow. If the Bernie Bros did get any "harder" we'd have people being murdered by them. The only thing Bernie didn't play "hard" enough with was learning how to play the game politically. Not everything in politics should be accepted blindly, there are things in politics which shouldn't be normalised.



Sure.



Still continuing the narrative that Trump was easy to defeat. Ignoring the fact Hillary had more than 3 million votes than Trump and Bernie.

1. And?
2. That's a privileged position to take for someone who hasn't been on the other side of a Bernie Bro.
3. And?
4. I didn't say we should do that, but we shouldn't just normalise the bad actors in our groups and let them attack whoever they want with impunity and not learn from history. This isn't about changing minds, this is about not allowing bad actors to radicalise others and contain them. Not give them a blank check on what they're doing. Do you think the Republicans shouldn't have done anything about the Trumpers when they got out of hand? Because that's being sold as what the Democrats should be doing with the Bernie Bros when they harass other candidates voters and party officials.

I really don't get the leftist idea that something bad happened in the past so we should just pretend it never happened and learn nothing from it. That's a conservative stance on politics. Leftists are supposed to be about progressive, in theory. Progress moves things forward, not ignoring the past.

That's just calling a spade a spade, how can we try to solve a problem when the problem isn't acknowledged? The worst people don't stop doing that by describing them wrong as if they weren't doing something bad. They do A and B anyway, they're not there for a conversation they're there to attack and be abusive anyone who is a Bernie supporter. You don't get bad people to stop by doing nothing or just agreeing with what they're doing - that makes it worse. It's irritating how you go back and forth on the Bernie Bros being a thing, find a lane and stick to it. This isn't a theoretical exercise.

Moving the goal posts, this is about the Bernie Bros and how the memes relate to them. I suggest you do more research into who the Bernie Bros are because they're not your friends, they're the kind of leftists who would be ok with the 6th had the people responsible been leftists. This isn't about "differing opinions," don't be patronising. Bernie Bros weren't "challenging" anyone's beliefs they were openly attacking and abusing people. Including politicians.

My problem with this entire argument isn't that specific individuals shouldn't be held accountable for their actions, it's that you're attempting to paint an entire group of people by the worst actors among their number. It's the same thing Fox News does with the BLM movement. "The evil left", happy with nothing less than the destruction of our country and everything we hold dear! Except they're not. They just see the way to a better country going down a different path. Some are bad actors (though a very small percentage of the population) just as there are in far-right and even centrist camps, and those individuals should be held accountable when their actions are over the line. I don't think anyone (myself included) has ever disputed that here.

But I feel like this is more of an emotional reaction to try to label and dismiss people who hold different political opinions than you. And I repeat, I think labeling anyone who disagrees with you as not only wrong but "evil" in order to keep your narrative of the world pure and unchallenged is far more dangerous than posting memes of mittens. It's how you end up in a bubble and reacting emotionally against anything that doesn't fit within that bubble. People have different opinions than you. You are not always going to be right, whatever your feelings (this goes for everyone, we all have blind spots and ignorance). And when people are wrong you're not helping the situation when you treating them like they're nazis (unless they're actually nazis).

[WestPhillyPunisher]

Yep, pretty much. The GOP is openly cartoonish in their villainy and ugliness.

[Revolutionary_Jack]

Dr. Fauci's venting tour about how Trump sucked is not appreciated by El Caudillo del Mar a Lago.
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/w...-b1792377.html

Apparently, Trump's been spending time watching Fauci's interviews obsessively, and whining and insulting about him, and complaining how he wished he had twitter to reply back which...yeah he would have likely instigated assassination attempts on him.

It's disturbing and telling that Trump focuses on Fauci and nobody else. Dr. Fauci better keep his security steady for himself and his family...Trump's grudges often target the meritorious, he hated Obama for earning his way fair and square, and he hates Fauci for his genuine scientific achievements. It speaks to the envy, the shame, and the (deeply suppressed) guilt and insecurity that a rich kid who never earned a goddamn thing in his life feels about people who had to strive and work hard.

[WestPhillyPunisher]

Dr. Fauci's venting tour about how Trump sucked is not appreciated by El Caudillo del Mar a Lago.
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/w...-b1792377.html

Apparently, Trump's been spending time watching Fauci's interviews obsessively, and whining and insulting about him, and complaining how he wished he had twitter to reply back which...yeah he would have likely instigated assassination attempts on him.

It's disturbing and telling that Trump focuses on Fauci and nobody else. Dr. Fauci better keep his security steady for himself and his family...Trump's grudges often target the meritorious, he hated Obama for earning his way fair and square, and he hates Fauci for his genuine scientific achievements. It speaks to the envy, the shame, and the (deeply suppressed) guilt and insecurity that a rich kid who never earned a goddamn thing in his life feels about people who had to strive and work hard.

And Trump’s grudges never end. He still has his panties in a bunch over that court case he lost to the NFL in 1987 and continues believing the Central Park Five should be put to death. Once you’re on his **** list, it’s forever, yeah, Fauci should be extremely careful, there’s way too many nutbags out there who hang on Trump’s every word and could take even an offhand comment about getting rid of the good doctor as marching orders.

[Wildling]

Dr. Fauci's venting tour about how Trump sucked is not appreciated by El Caudillo del Mar a Lago.
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/w...-b1792377.html

Apparently, Trump's been spending time watching Fauci's interviews obsessively, and whining and insulting about him, and complaining how he wished he had twitter to reply back which...yeah he would have likely instigated assassination attempts on him.

It's disturbing and telling that Trump focuses on Fauci and nobody else. Dr. Fauci better keep his security steady for himself and his family...Trump's grudges often target the meritorious, he hated Obama for earning his way fair and square, and he hates Fauci for his genuine scientific achievements. It speaks to the envy, the shame, and the (deeply suppressed) guilt and insecurity that a rich kid who never earned a goddamn thing in his life feels about people who had to strive and work hard.

I heard Trump never fired Fauci outright and only allowed/didn't disavow the usual political hanger-ons smearing him because, being the coward he is, he didn't want to risk that public outrage on top of everything else since Fauci himself was hardly unpopular.

[Revolutionary_Jack]

I heard Trump never fired Fauci outright and only allowed/didn't disavow the usual political hanger-ons smearing him because, being the coward he is, he didn't want to risk that public outrage on top of everything else since Fauci himself was hardly unpopular.

Trump couldn't fire Fauci even if he had the guts.

Fauci is a Civil Service appointee for the NIAID not directly under Presidential purview. So neither Trump nor Biden can fire him from NIAID. Now of course Trump can put political pressure on the people who have firing power to remove or force Fauci to resign...but Fauci directly didn't have to worry about Trump.

Fauci at CNN talks about how he used his job security to contradict Trump, which he notes others like Redfield and Birx, directly appointed by Trump, couldn't do.
https://www.cnn.com/2021/01/25/polit...ntv/index.html

[shooshoomanjoe]

Trump couldn't fire Fauci even if he had the guts.

Fauci is a Civil Service appointee for the NIAID not directly under Presidential purview. So neither Trump nor Biden can fire him from NIAID. Now of course Trump can put political pressure on the people who have firing power to remove or force Fauci to resign...but Fauci directly didn't have to worry about Trump.

Fauci at CNN talks about how he used his job security to contradict Trump, which he notes others like Redfield and Birx, directly appointed by Trump, couldn't do.
https://www.cnn.com/2021/01/25/polit...ntv/index.html

Didn't know that. I always wondered why trump kept. Fauci around.

[worstblogever]

I'm sorry for the state of my state, WBE.

I'm not one to talk I'm in Arizona, where y'know, they just censured Cindy McCain, Doug Ducey, & Jeff Flake.

Did I mention Wendy Rogers, the nutball who kept trying to get elected to Congress and failed, and so she "settled" for running for a AZ State Senate seat against a vulnerable incumbent by moving up to Flagstaff and live in a travel trailer to challenge her? And spent $1 million to win a seat? Update on Wendy Rogers... she's set a record for becoming the first member of the Arizona state legislature to be hit with an ethics violation... only 10 days into her first term. She repeatedly harassed a staffer, specifically screaming in his face so he was hit with spittle. This after screaming at him on the phone for days on end. What did the guy do?

He was under forced quarantine at home with Covid-19. And Rogers was bitching him out for "loafing".

Top to bottom, left to right, the GOP are some kinda insane garbage right now.

[Wildling]

Trump couldn't fire Fauci even if he had the guts.

Fauci is a Civil Service appointee for the NIAID not directly under Presidential purview. So neither Trump nor Biden can fire him from NIAID. Now of course Trump can put political pressure on the people who have firing power to remove or force Fauci to resign...but Fauci directly didn't have to worry about Trump.

Fauci at CNN talks about how he used his job security to contradict Trump, which he notes others like Redfield and Birx, directly appointed by Trump, couldn't do.
https://www.cnn.com/2021/01/25/polit...ntv/index.html

Yeah I remember reading about how he couldn't do that directly, but by now after seeing how much Trump devoted himself to the violent election fraud fantasy that apparently had all kinds of goons/Pentagoons in on it, that is so far spiralling into his associates getting sued for billions, I can't help but think Fauci is better off if all he had to do is ride on the back of science over the hill while Trump continued to make clear all the hard work egghead science stuff was so yucky to him.

Oh and I wouldn't be surprised if Fauci making Brad Pitt a liked celebrity play him in SNL (just because Fauci said he liked Pitt) gnawed at Trump too. Trump publicly asking his randos to vote for a Republican candidate to save face couldn't avoid the Democrat winning that race, him pointing his finger at election stealing ghosts didn't do the GOP any favors in Georgia either, and now his randos supporting him have as figureheads such things as a shaman/Village People cosplay stereotype Trump would rather see rot in jail than sharing a photo with him.

[ShutUpLutz]

Trump took so much glee in his executive orders and not having to work with Congress. womp womp

Live By The Sharpie, Die By The Ballpoint ― Much Of Trump’s Legacy Undone In Days

Trump’s failure to codify his preferred policies through legislation, relying instead on a black Sharpie marker to scrawl his signature onto executive actions and then show them off for the cameras, left them vulnerable to Biden’s signature on countermanding orders. And so far, the new president has signed dozens of them ― albeit with a ballpoint pen and less flourish, but every bit as effective ― wiping out much of Trump’s “legacy” in a matter of days.

That was so fucking embarrassing.

A GROWN man...an OLD man, preening and showing off his signature. He no doubt thought he looked manly and tough and presidential, but he came off as a kindergartner showing mommy his drawing that his teacher gave TWO gold stars!!!!

Beyond pathetic.

[ShutUpLutz]

Dr. Fauci's venting tour about how Trump sucked is not appreciated by El Caudillo del Mar a Lago.
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/w...-b1792377.html

Apparently, Trump's been spending time watching Fauci's interviews obsessively, and whining and insulting about him, and complaining how he wished he had twitter to reply back which...yeah he would have likely instigated assassination attempts on him.

It's disturbing and telling that Trump focuses on Fauci and nobody else. Dr. Fauci better keep his security steady for himself and his family...Trump's grudges often target the meritorious, he hated Obama for earning his way fair and square, and he hates Fauci for his genuine scientific achievements. It speaks to the envy, the shame, and the (deeply suppressed) guilt and insecurity that a rich kid who never earned a goddamn thing in his life feels about people who had to strive and work hard.

Back when he started getting attacked and frozen out by Trump I sent him a note along with a Snoopy card thanking him for the hard work he was doing and urging him to do some stress relieving stuff. Three weeks after I sent the note I got a note from him, thanking me for my note and also for my work (I'm an EMT and x-ray tech.)

[Adam Allen]

The key to winning a battle or the war is to at least offer a hand or a seat at the table to try to work things out. As long as the other side refuses-you come off looking better because at least you appeared to be TRYING to offer help.

We are more divided than every because more folks are asking for a seat at the table.

Because the exclusion of folks is a COSTLY thing.

Folks are now questioning everything.

Yeah, I hear that, and in principle I agree. "An eye for an eye leaves everybody blind," and in real life in general, doing your best to work towards de-escalation and reconciliation is always a more helpful approach than just digging in your heels and declaring blood vengeance. So yeah, in politics in as anything else, I would have to admire someone who tries to take this approach over the opposite.

The problem is that even though we've seen Democrats doing that for decades, your rank and file Republican would rather see their politicians demonize and marginalize everybody on the other side. Compromise does not mean just giving you everything you want, and giving up on everything I need. And again, I don't really see how you can work with someone who does think that's what it means.

[Amadeus Arkham]

Trump doesn't create anything, least of all a news network. No, he will negotiate a deal with Newsmax or OANN to re-brand themselves as Trump News. That's what Trump does; he takes other people's creations and slaps his name on them so he can take credit for its success or avoid blame if it fails. Just look at Trump Steaks, Trump Airlines, Trump: The Game...

This post is too accurate.

[Revolutionary_Jack]

Back when he started getting attacked and frozen out by Trump I sent him a note along with a Snoopy card thanking him for the hard work he was doing and urging him to do some stress relieving stuff. Three weeks after I sent the note I got a note from him, thanking me for my note and also for my work (I'm an EMT and x-ray tech.)

Really sweet. Thank you for sharing this.