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  1. #3991
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    All this discussion about the Civil War, makes me wonder where Firefly's gonna be in a few years.

    I mean, yeah, it wasn't about North vs South, but it does take all its symbolism and background from the Civil War, and paints a sympathetic picture for it's 'South' side.

  2. #3992
    Extraordinary Member PaulBullion's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Cool Thatguy View Post
    All this discussion about the Civil War, makes me wonder where Firefly's gonna be in a few years.

    I mean, yeah, it wasn't about North vs South, but it does take all its symbolism and background from the Civil War, and paints a sympathetic picture for it's 'South' side.
    It's a slippery slope. Some people say they might do away with the direction "South" completely, then it will just be North, East, West.
    "How does the Green Goblin have anything to do with Herpes?" - The Dying Detective

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  3. #3993
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    Quote Originally Posted by PaulBullion View Post
    It's a slippery slope. Some people say they might do away with the direction "South" completely, then it will just be North, East, West.
    Yeah, sarcasm isn't your gift.

  4. #3994
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Cool Thatguy View Post
    All this discussion about the Civil War, makes me wonder where Firefly's gonna be in a few years.

    I mean, yeah, it wasn't about North vs South, but it does take all its symbolism and background from the Civil War, and paints a sympathetic picture for it's 'South' side.
    Firefly is an interesting case, because it kind of begs the question of whether or not removing slavery from the usual romanticized archetype entirely does a good enough job de-romanticizing the real world event. Not only is the Firefly crew’s scariest Browncoat a black woman, but the background for the show also portrays the the backstory war as straightforward expansion, centralization and conquest by the Alliance over the Independents instead of a fratricidal conflict sparked by a minority political faction losing an election with a mandate on slavery at its core.

    At the same time, Whedon meant and occasionally showed the Alliance’s more benevolent aspects, and he stated he saw them as more comparable to the US during the Vietnam war.

    Any return to the franchise would likely be crying out for further expansion and differentiation of the war and mythos.
    Like action, adventure, rogues, and outlaws? Like anti-heroes, femme fatales, mysteries and thrillers?

    I wrote a book with them. Outlaw’s Shadow: A Sherwood Noir. Robin Hood’s evil counterpart, Guy of Gisbourne, is the main character. Feel free to give it a look: https://read.amazon.com/kp/embed?asi...E2PKBNJFH76GQP

  5. #3995
    Old school comic book fan WestPhillyPunisher's Avatar
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    Armed vigilantes gather around Columbus statue in South Philly

    Armed vigiliantes were seen carrying bats and guns around the Christopher Columbus statue in South Philadelphia's Marconi Plaza, as debate intensifies over what to do with it.

    Over the past couple of weeks, the civil unrest in Philadelphia and around the world led to controversial landmarks coming down, including the Frank Rizzo statue in Center City and his mural in the Italian Market.

    More recently, a statue of Columbus in Camden's Farnham Park was decapitated by neighbors Thursday night while city crews removed it. The head was later seen at a march against racism on Saturday.
    Now, it goes without saying these vigilantes protecting the statue were white, because cops merely stood by watching them, nothing more. Had those gun toting goons been black, heads would’ve exploded and the Army called in with orders to shoot to kill. The hypocrisy here is beyond staggering.
    Avatar: Here's to the late, great Steve Dillon. Best. Punisher. Artist. EVER!

  6. #3996
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    Erasing some of the history of the Civil War would honestly not be the worst thing, there are scarcely any periods in time that have been written about and analyzed more extensively, and nearly all of it fixates on the minutiae of battle tactics while largely ignoring the greater sociopolitical context in which the war took place.

  7. #3997
    Extraordinary Member PaulBullion's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Cool Thatguy View Post
    Yeah, sarcasm isn't your gift.
    Should I have done the upper case / lower case mix in the words?
    "How does the Green Goblin have anything to do with Herpes?" - The Dying Detective

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  8. #3998
    Invincible Member Kirby101's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PwrdOn View Post
    Erasing some of the history of the Civil War would honestly not be the worst thing, there are scarcely any periods in time that have been written about and analyzed more extensively, and nearly all of it fixates on the minutiae of battle tactics while largely ignoring the greater sociopolitical context in which the war took place.
    Nobody is "erasing history" They want to stop glorifying traitors and people who fought for an inhumane cause.

    Hitler and Stalin have not been erased, even with the paucity of monuments to them.
    There came a time when the Old Gods died! The Brave died with the Cunning! The Noble perished locked in battle with unleashed Evil! It was the last day for them! An ancient era was passing in fiery holocaust!

  9. #3999
    Astonishing Member Electricmastro's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Cool Thatguy View Post
    I mean, yeah, it wasn't about North vs South, but it does take all its symbolism and background from the Civil War, and paints a sympathetic picture for it's 'South' side.
    And definitely not helping the situation was news of the 1804 Haiti massacre reaching the South, a massacre in which “Women and children were generally killed last. White women were "often raped or pushed into forced marriages under threat of death." - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1804_Haiti_massacre

    Which I’m sure many Southerners assumed served as justification as to why black people should be enslaved, as opposed to taking the time to understand why the ex-slaves were motivated to kill children and rape women in the first place.
    Last edited by Electricmastro; 06-14-2020 at 01:21 PM.

  10. #4000
    The Superior One Celgress's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Electricmastro View Post
    And definitely not helping the situation was news of the 1804 Haiti massacre reaching the South, a massacre in which “Women and children were generally killed last. White women were "often raped or pushed into forced marriages under threat of death." - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1804_Haiti_massacre

    Which I’m sure many Southerners assumed served as justification as to why black people should be enslaved, as opposed to taking the time to understand why the ex-slaves were motivated to kill children and rape women in the first place.
    And how France got revenge (in part, there were other motivations mainly economic ones) for this was to level a huge debt against the new nation. Most of that debt, which stood well into the 20th Century, was to repay French citizens for the loss of property most of said property being the former slaves themselves. Because people could not (they didn't have nearly enough money on hand) and would not (on principle) pay the excessive debt France made it clear any nation doing business with Haiti could not do business with them thus crippling the fledgling state -

    If anyone is interested in learning more about Haiti's often tragic history I highly recommend.

    Haiti: The Aftershocks of History Paperback

    by Laurent Dubois (2013)


    https://www.amazon.com/Haiti-Aftersh...2170304&sr=8-1
    "So you've come to the end now alive but dead inside."

  11. #4001
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    Quote Originally Posted by Electricmastro View Post
    And definitely not helping the situation was news of the 1804 Haiti massacre reaching the South, a massacre in which “Women and children were generally killed last. White women were "often raped or pushed into forced marriages under threat of death." - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1804_Haiti_massacre

    Which I’m sure many Southerners assumed served as justification as to why black people should be enslaved, as opposed to taking the time to understand why the ex-slaves were motivated to kill children and rape women in the first place.
    If the Haitians had not massacred the slave owners, they would have used every dirty trick in the book to retain their former wealth and power, likely with more than a little assistance from foreign powers who had no interest in seeing any country being governed by former slaves. Quite frankly, we would not be in the predicament we are in today if we had simply thrown the Confederates to the mercy of their former slaves.

  12. #4002
    Astonishing Member Electricmastro's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Celgress View Post
    And how France got revenge (in part, there were other motivations mainly economic ones) for this was to level a huge debt against the new nation. Most of that debt, which stood well into the 20th Century, was to repay French citizens for the loss of property most of said property being the former slaves themselves. Because people could not (they didn't have nearly enough money on hand) and would not (on principle) pay the excessive debt France made it clear any nation doing business with Haiti could not do business with them thus crippling the fledgling state -

    If anyone is interested in learning more about Haiti's often tragic history I highly recommend.

    Haiti: The Aftershocks of History Paperback

    by Laurent Dubois (2013)


    https://www.amazon.com/Haiti-Aftersh...2170304&sr=8-1
    As well as the history involving Toussaint Louverture. I’m surprised I didn’t learn about the Haitian Revolution until later. I think it’s very much crucial to learn about when academically analyzing the American Civil War.

  13. #4003
    The Superior One Celgress's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Electricmastro View Post
    As well as the history involving Toussaint Louverture. I’m surprised I didn’t learn about the Haitian Revolution until later. I think it’s very much crucial when academically analyzing the American Civil War.
    It's because until a decade ago all basic history in schools and even institutions of higher learning was Western focused (North America, Europe, and its Empires). Everything else had been excluded.
    "So you've come to the end now alive but dead inside."

  14. #4004
    Ultimate Member Gray Lensman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Electricmastro View Post
    And definitely not helping the situation was news of the 1804 Haiti massacre reaching the South, a massacre in which “Women and children were generally killed last. White women were "often raped or pushed into forced marriages under threat of death." - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1804_Haiti_massacre

    Which I’m sure many Southerners assumed served as justification as to why black people should be enslaved, as opposed to taking the time to understand why the ex-slaves were motivated to kill children and rape women in the first place.
    Here's a good overview of the Haitian revolution I watched a few months ago.



    Part 1 of 6, with a bonus 7th episode where they correct mistakes they found after the fact and talk about related stuff.
    Dark does not mean deep.

  15. #4005
    Ultimate Member Malvolio's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kirby101 View Post
    Nobody is "erasing history" They want to stop glorifying traitors and people who fought for an inhumane cause.

    Hitler and Stalin have not been erased, even with the paucity of monuments to them.
    Exactly. We don't need the statues to remember the history. We have books, we have documentaries, we have dramas like North and South, Lincoln and Glory. No one will forget Robert E. Lee's name just because his statue is no longer in the public square.
    Watching television is not an activity.

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