All purpose news and politics thread part VI: This Is Not The Time For Posing

[Gray Lensman]

The same Democratic party that is constantly trying to appease the GOP on immigration is also counting on riding the backs of the Latino vote into power. Somehow I don't think this is going to work out the way they thought.

Two things you don't seem willing to realize.

One - they are also trying not to alienate the more moderate side of the base - the ones who propelled them to victory in many of the districts Trump won in 2016. Angering them is an easy way to become a minority party in the House again.

Two - It isn't hard to find members of the Latino community who are against open borders and who want heavy immigration enforcement. Those who came in through the system often don't like the idea of people circumventing it.

[PwrdOn]

Two things you don't seem willing to realize.

One - they are also trying not to alienate the more moderate side of the base - the ones who propelled them to victory in many of the districts Trump won in 2016. Angering them is an easy way to become a minority party in the House again.

Two - It isn't hard to find members of the Latino community who are against open borders and who want heavy immigration enforcement. Those who came in through the system often don't like the idea of people circumventing it.

Things have changed since the days of Cesar Chavez though, since people are a lot more aware that most of the rhetoric against illegal, and for that matter legal, immigration is just barely veiled racist canards. And more generally there is a greater recognition among immigrants that our status as American citizens is pretty much entirely an accident of circumstance, and that there are many more people just like us who for some reason or another didn't have the same luck. I'm sure there are plenty of immigrants who just want to slam the door shut behind them, but they are decisively in the minority now.

[Malvolio]

They do realize that The View has always included a right wing panel member?

So who will they get to be their token liberal? Oh I know. They'll go to Stacy Dash and ask her if she can talk Alicia Silverstone into it. Of course, Alicia Silverstone is probably no longer speaking to Stacy Dash.

[WestPhillyPunisher]

So who will they get to be their token liberal? Oh I know. They'll go to Stacy Dash and ask her if she can talk Alicia Silverstone into it. Of course, Alicia Silverstone is probably no longer speaking to Stacy Dash.

I doubt Stacy Dash's family are speaking to Stacy Dash.

[Iron Maiden]

Twitter Link with Video

Ah....yeah.......

Oh, lord. The talk show version of the Frightful Four.

[WestPhillyPunisher]

Oh, lord. The talk show version of the Frightful Four.

HAHAHAHAHA! I know, right?

[Gray Lensman]

Things have changed since the days of Cesar Chavez though, since people are a lot more aware that most of the rhetoric against illegal, and for that matter legal, immigration is just barely veiled racist canards. And more generally there is a greater recognition among immigrants that our status as American citizens is pretty much entirely an accident of circumstance, and that there are many more people just like us who for some reason or another didn't have the same luck. I'm sure there are plenty of immigrants who just want to slam the door shut behind them, but they are decisively in the minority now.

Too bad that majority isn't voting in a consistent manner. That might go some ways towards getting the politicians on board. The power the NRA has over the process is that they vote every year and put their one issue above literally everything else, no matter what. I think they have done more harm (By far) than good, but that doesn't prevent them from having an effect far beyond what the numbers would suggest - it's only recently that more....sane...people have finally been able to counteract them.

[InformationGeek]

Well this is horrifying and yet more of Trump wrecking our country.

Trump has decided to withdraw from the Open Skies Treaty, negotiated three decades ago to allow nations to fly over each other’s territory with elaborate sensor equipment to assure they are not preparing for military action. @SangerNYT

[PaulBullion]

Hm.

Sen. Amy Klobuchar has officially been asked by Joe Biden to undergo vetting to be considered for his VP, sources tell CBSNews

[Tami]

Hm.

Sen. Amy Klobuchar has officially been asked by Joe Biden to undergo vetting to be considered for his VP, sources tell CBSNews

From what I hear, Biden is vetting nearly every eligible female Democrat.

Which women could be Joe Biden's running mate?

Presumptive Democratic presidential nominee Joe Biden's search for a running mate is likely well underway. Based on CBS News' reporting, several women have been discussed within the Biden campaign as likely to be vetted or have been recommended to the campaign by other prominent Democrats.

The vetting process may look a little different this year because of the constraints caused by the coronavirus pandemic. Biden recently said he expects the vetting process to take at least five to eight weeks. Previously, he said hopes to announce his decision by July.

While he has also said that at least a dozen women are under consideration, sources have told CBS News Biden is seriously considering five to eight of these potential picks. Beyond contact with the vetting committee, top Biden staff like campaign manager Jen O'Malley Dillon and other senior advisers are in frequent contact — sometimes every day — with aides to these women. Several high-profile Democrats told CBS News they are urging Biden to pick a woman of color.

Though there is a push in favor of some candidates, I think Biden is playing it politically safe by opening the door to as many possibles as possible. To not be vetted when you are a qualified candidate might be seen as a snub, though each one knows that he can only choose on VP candidate.

[WestPhillyPunisher]

Well this is horrifying and yet more of Trump wrecking our country.

My guess is somebody told him about the treaty this morning and he decided out of the clear blue to scuttle it for no other reason than because.

[The Cool Thatguy]

My guess is somebody told him about the treaty this morning and he decided out of the clear blue to scuttle it for no other reason than because.

Russia knew what way the winds are blowing, and wanted to get rid of it

[Mister Mets]

Which I already did about half a year ago when we had this exact same discussion before.

I likewise responded exactly how one should to a loaded question (with facts) and you responded almost exactly as stated in the article I provided.

Again -- you repeat the usual talking points while your party suppresses the rights of minorities and continues to drive America into the gutter.

Even now you're trying to dictate the terms of the discussion -- just let it go and acknowledge that it's a waste of time for you to try to do so.

Just like it's a waste of time for me to expect you to objectively concern yourself with the racism, bigotry, and corruption within your party.

And I never claimed you think "all Democrats" want open borders because we both know that's an obvious lie: we should just end this discussion since you continually misrepresent the positions of others (whether unintentionally or otherwise) which makes me not even want to bother responding to you.

To further clarify: of course it's a "nuanced" conversation but one wouldn't know that when you keep restorting to talking points instead of objectively taking into account of the facts provided to you and then objectively responding to what others are actually saying instead of misrepresenting other positions in an obvious effort to avoid any discussion of faults within the Republican party itself.

I have no problem engaging in honest and productive discussions regarding these matters but this is not one of them.

It's noteworthy in that regard that you keep "questioning" the issue of hypothetical open borders rather than why a racist now runs your party.

But since there is a long tradition of racists and bigots running your party that's nothing new -- which explains why the bigotry isn't an issue.

I think the best way to respond to a logical fallacy is to point it out, and give the other guy a chance to try again.

I do still maintain that my question was not loaded, as it doesn't require the person answering to assume something that is in contention.

If you answered the question about whether Democrats have expressed a limited principle and what we should infer it they haven't clearly and unambiguously, I missed it. I looked up posts from a few months ago, and didn't find it.

We've argued about my questions regarding the Democratic position on immigration on and off for some time. Sometimes you suggested that I was wrong to claim that Democrats are for open borders (which I haven't) or to refer to the prior record of Democrats, which is ultimately an answer to a different question. I suppose one can infer that you believe that Democrats essentially favor the status quo, although I don't recall you explicitly saying that.

https://community.cbr.com/showthread...02#post4500102

https://community.cbr.com/showthread...=1#post4304728

It is worth noting that PwrdOn gave an answer to the question. He can correct me if I'm wrong but he seems to believe that Democrats are pretty much indistinguishable from Republicans on immigration, but trying to keep that quiet so as not to piss off Latinx voters. I'm sure many disagree with his understanding, but we do know where he's coming from.

[InformationGeek]

Nope. Don't buy it one second. Show pictures or I don't believe you.

The president says he DID WEAR A MASK off camera in an area of the plant where Ford said it was necessary but he says that he “didn’t want to give the press the pleasure” of seeing him in a mask.

[PwrdOn]

Too bad that majority isn't voting in a consistent manner. That might go some ways towards getting the politicians on board. The power the NRA has over the process is that they vote every year and put their one issue above literally everything else, no matter what. I think they have done more harm (By far) than good, but that doesn't prevent them from having an effect far beyond what the numbers would suggest - it's only recently that more....sane...people have finally been able to counteract them.

The problem with the immigration debate specifically though is that too many moderates and center left folks tend to default to "sensible" position of strict border controls and parrot the right wing talking points that loosening restrictions would cause a flood of unwanted refugees to pour in. The reason that people like Mets get away with trolling everyone about this issue is because Democrats are too afraid to take up a strong position on the issue for fear of upsetting swing voters, but at the same time their waffling makes it hard for Latinos to trust them.