All purpose news and politics thread part VI: This Is Not The Time For Posing

[Dalak]

The ICC has issued an arrest warrant for Putin for war crimes.

Oh boy, this is going to go over well . . .

[Mister Mets]

I notice two things about the evidence you're saying you need, before you can know if Reed was telling the truth.

The first is that they are completely theoretical, describing events that have not happened and (as far as we know) may never happen. (As there have been no legal charges at all, nor I think even any specific doctor named by Reed, let alone accusations of the same doctor from other independent sources.)

The second, apparently you are only willing to consider evidence that supports her claims? Because while there haven't been any other patients or staff supporting her claims, there have been several disputing them. (And there's the small detail of Wash U being a "Hidden Ivy" and one of the most respected research universities in the country. To be disregarded, in face of a random person's unsupported accusations.)

If you actually need to wait until June before you might have any idea what is really happening in the clinic, the metric you're describing is that you'll believe accusations of unethical and illegal behavior for five months, with no supporting evidence whatsoever, while you actively ignore all disputing evidence ... and you're suggesting this is a reasonable and objective perspective on the story?

You are an interesting fellow, Mister Mets.

I wasn't really expecting people to disprove Jamie Reed, just because it is difficult to disprove a negative.

One way to think about this is how we would react to a whistleblower making different claims. Let's say someone else says that cops at a precinct have a tendency to commit violent acts while drunk. Pointing to a Muslim officer and two Mormon officers who don't drink doesn't necessarily prove anything about the rest of the force. So the main way to assess whether the claim is true is to wait and see if more comes out. Maybe nothing comes out, which would suggest the complainer is a crank. Maybe it turns out that it's just one or two bad apples, and not a systemic issue. Maybe it leads to a floodgate of complaints and evidence of outrageous behavior.

It's certainly possible for someone to disprove her, but I'm not insisting on that in this particular situation.

By "They don't run anyone against him", do you mean they don't pick somebody and tell them that they will be running against Sanders? I always thought that running for office was a personal choice!

Is your understanding of American politics that members of the Democratic party political machine are indifferent to whether someone runs for the party nomination against Sanders?

[WestPhillyPunisher]

I wish there were examples of what the parent/school felt was indoctrination to illustrate exactly how much merit this case had.

There probably aren’t any concrete examples of what those snowflakes thought had been indoctrination other than: “WAHHHHHHH! He’s teaching students about how black people are equal to me and deserve justice! No fair! WAHHHHHHH!” Is it a coincidence that teacher was doing his course for years without a peep of complaint until DeSantis launched his so-called anti-woke campaign? I don’t think so.

The ICC has issued an arrest warrant for Putin for war crimes.

In my opinion, that was purely symbolic with zero teeth when it comes to actual enforcement. Trump will see the inside of a courtroom to stand trial for his crimes before Putin ever will, but yeah, that’s bound to piss him off, and god only knows how he’ll react.

[Dalak]

There probably aren’t any concrete examples of what those snowflakes thought had been indoctrination other than: “WAHHHHHHH! He’s teaching students about how black people are equal to me and deserve justice! No fair! WAHHHHHHH!” Is it a coincidence that teacher was doing his course for years without a peep of complaint until DeSantis launched his so-called anti-woke campaign? I don’t think so.



In my opinion, that was purely symbolic with zero teeth when it comes to actual enforcement. Trump will see the inside of a courtroom to stand trial for his crimes before Putin ever will, but yeah, that’s bound to piss him off, and god only knows how he’ll react.

Seeing as the Dean cut short the meeting about the issues raised so he could prepare for DeSantis' speaking visit I'd agree with you here, but some examples of what was going on would shut up people supporting the firing if it was a pile of nothing. E: Eh, who am I kidding. Direct evidence this teacher was innocent could arrive and it'd be ignored by any conservative at this point as we have ample examples of.

As for Putin: The guy has been clearly losing it as the war has kept lingering showing off how weak Russia and by extension He is, so he'll HAVE to respond to this in some big way.

[CaptainEurope]

By "They don't run anyone against him", do you mean they don't pick somebody and tell them that they will be running against Sanders? I always thought that running for office was a personal choice!

Don't you realize that Empress Hillary Clinton sits in her massive headquarters on a large cliff overlooking Martha's Vineyard with dozens of data cables connected directly to her spine, as her blood has been replaced with adrenochrome and woke juice? She flicks one finger and the Democrats run a candidate in a race of her choice, or assassinate some assistant who has been tweeting too much.

[hyped78]

This is news to me, do you mind showing a link or something?

Sure. Go to https://data.cityofnewyork.us, access Open Data for "NYC Permitted Event Information Historical". Needs to be the historical data set because the main one only has data for 2022-23. Filter for Start Date 2020 (e.g. May to September) and export to Excel (or not, but it's easier than using the tool). Filter "Event type" for "Special Event", "Street Event" and "Rally", etc. You will see permits granted for events under "Meditating for Black Lives", "Black Men Meditate", "Black Leadership Walk", etc.
This website has all the permits granted by NYC. It doesn't include other permits granted by, for example, the NYPD (I assume some BLM protests got permits directly from the NYPD but I don't know if they have an available database like this one).

Or, for a different angle, you can just see this:
https://news.yahoo.com/blasio-black-...115502505.html

"De Blasio: Black Lives Matter Protests Exempt from Large-Event Ban" (July 2020)

He cancelled all city events that required a permit until Sep. 30th, because of Covid, except BLM events - cancelled events included the West Indian Day Parade and the Feast of San Gennaro, among others.

They also skipped the permit process to paint the BLM mural outside Trump Tower, you might recall.

[hyped78]

It makes the implications that the the Floyd protests were somehow allowed despite Covid restrictions because of “woke-ism” incorrect.

If you want to argue whether the Floyd protests were more morally or ethnically correct than anti-mask, anti-lockdown, or anti-vaccination protests I’d rather not because it’d be a ridiculous waste of time.

I mentioned before that I don't agree with DeSantis and that I believe him to be dishonest. However, when he says that the "virus is woke", quoting him on "the virus is woke" without providing the context of why/ how he said it is intellectually misleading, it's actually straight from the right-wing disinformation playbook - regardless of whether you believe that what he's saying has merit or not.

He said the "virus is woke" because, in many cases, the Covid lockdown rules that were in place were purposefully ignored - and this exemption was sanctioned by authorities - for the sake of BLM protests.

That BLM protests are morally superior to any type of anti-mask/vaxx protests, I think we're in full agreement.

[Dalak]

Sure. Go to https://data.cityofnewyork.us, access Open Data for "NYC Permitted Event Information Historical". Needs to be the historical data set because the main one only has data for 2022-23. Filter for Start Date 2020 (e.g. May to September) and export to Excel (or not, but it's easier than using the tool). Filter "Event type" for "Special Event", "Street Event" and "Rally", etc. You will see permits granted for events under "Meditating for Black Lives", "Black Men Meditate", "Black Leadership Walk", etc.
This website has all the permits granted by NYC. It doesn't include other permits granted by, for example, the NYPD (I assume some BLM protests got permits directly from the NYPD but I don't know if they have an available database like this one).

Or you can just see this:
https://news.yahoo.com/blasio-black-...115502505.html

"De Blasio: Black Lives Matter Protests Exempt from Large-Event Ban" (July 2020)

They also skipped the permit process to paint the BLM mural outside Trump Tower, you might recall.

I mentioned before that I don't agree with DeSantis and that I believe him to be dishonest. However, when he says that the "virus is woke", saying that he says "the virus is woke" without providing the context of why/ how he said it is intellectually dishonest, it's actually straight from the right-wing playbook.

He said the "virus is woke" because, in many cases, the Covid lockdown rules that were in place were purposefully ignored - and this exemption was sanctioned by authorities - for the sake of BLM protests.

That BLM protests are morally superior to any type of anti-mask/vaxx protests, I think we're in full agreement.

The Wiki makes for interesting reading, showing that DeBlasio did attend one protest along with several other city bigwigs . . . after imposing the first citywide curfew since the Harlem riots of 1943 and then making it stricter. It also mentions how the city began to open up on June 8th, something someone like DeSantis should have been praising.

Well first of all they were reopening the city on June 8th, this rule was part of reopening and there were other exceptions to the ban including religious gatherings (Not very woke) according to your story. Claiming they were allowed still ignores the days of police crackdown and the history making curfew that DeBlasio instituted. It also allowed for other meetings of "A city block or smaller" to apply for a permit as well.

The rule cancels street fairs, outdoor concerts, parades, and other big events, including the West Indian American Day Carnival in Brooklyn Labor Day weekend, the Dominican Day Parade in midtown Manhattan, and the San Gennaro festival in Little Italy.

While religious events and press conferences will also be exempt from the ban, the city will deny all permits for street fairs, events stretching larger than one block or requiring a sound system and events in parks it believes will “unreasonably diminish public use.”

Did you ever think that the protests weren't outright banned because after more than a week of a police crackdown they showed they won't go away just because they aren't wanted by the authorities?

BTW I do appreciate your response and the info, but what does the mural made after the riots have to do with the riots clearly not being allowed?

[hyped78]

Well first of all they were reopening the city on June 8th, this rule was part of reopening and there were other exceptions to the ban including religious gatherings (Not very woke) according to your story. Claiming they were allowed still ignores the days of police crackdown and the history making curfew that DeBlasio instituted. It also allowed for other meetings of "A city block or smaller" to apply for a permit as well.


Did you ever think that the protests weren't outright banned because after more than a week of a police crackdown they showed they won't go away just because they aren't wanted by the authorities?

BTW I do appreciate your response and the info, but what does the mural made after the riots have to do with the riots clearly not being allowed?

The mural is a side comment. I'm just stating that the mural was painted skipping a permit process that always needs to be followed for other similar cases. I believe the Mayor's Office even admitted to that. Also, weren't there still Covid restrictions in place when it was painted?

While I directionally agree with you on the police crackdown (while it's important to note that not all police officers are bloodthirsty thugs), it's actually irrelevant for the point DeSantis was trying to make (the mural too, to be fair).

If you read the article it says:
"Mayor Bill de Blasio has canceled all large events in New York City through September, but will continue to allow Black Lives Matter protests in the city, he said."
"The rule cancels street fairs, outdoor concerts, parades, and other big events, including the West Indian American Day Carnival in Brooklyn Labor Day weekend, the Dominican Day Parade in midtown Manhattan, and the San Gennaro festival in Little Italy."
"While religious events and press conferences will also be exempt from the ban, the city will deny all permits for street fairs, events stretching larger than one block or requiring a sound system and events in parks it believes will “unreasonably diminish public use.”"

While there were other smaller exceptions (e.g. small funerals - not that there's a way around that!!!), the main exception by far was BLM. And, by the way, this article is from July 2020. New York had already seen massive (and mostly peaceful, as far as I know - important to acknowledge that) BLM demonstrations, under Covid lockdown/ curfew rules since the end of May.
We're talking about New York but the same applies to many other cities across the US, of course.

"Did you ever think that the protests weren't outright banned because after more than a week of a police crackdown they showed they won't go away just because they aren't wanted by the authorities?" - several elected officials, including De Blasio and Cuomo publicly stated on many occasions that they supported the BLM protests, despite the Covid lockdowns. It's almost like the virus was selective - is the snarky point DeSantis is making.

[Dalak]

The mural is a side comment. I'm just stating that the mural was painted skipping a permit process that always needs to be followed for other similar cases. I believe the Mayor's Office even admitted to that. Also, weren't there still Covid restrictions in place when it was painted?

While I directionally agree with you on the police crackdown (while it's important to note that not all police officers are bloodthirsty thugs), it's actually irrelevant for the point DeSantis was trying to make (the mural too, to be fair).

If you read the article it says:
"Mayor Bill de Blasio has canceled all large events in New York City through September, but will continue to allow Black Lives Matter protests in the city, he said."
"The rule cancels street fairs, outdoor concerts, parades, and other big events, including the West Indian American Day Carnival in Brooklyn Labor Day weekend, the Dominican Day Parade in midtown Manhattan, and the San Gennaro festival in Little Italy."
"While religious events and press conferences will also be exempt from the ban, the city will deny all permits for street fairs, events stretching larger than one block or requiring a sound system and events in parks it believes will “unreasonably diminish public use.”"

While there were other smaller exceptions (e.g. small funerals - not that there's a way around that!!!), the main exception by far was BLM. And, by the way, this article is from July 2020. New York had already seen massive (and mostly peaceful, as far as I know - important to acknowledge that) BLM demonstrations, under Covid lockdown/ curfew rules since the end of May.
We're talking about New York but the same applies to many other cities across the US, of course.

The mural you admittedly brought up as an aside was a city block. I quoted what you're quoting here. And we "directionally agree" on the bolded, a strange term.

Did you ever think that the protests weren't outright banned because after more than a week of a police crackdown they showed they won't go away just because they aren't wanted by the authorities?

Yes, the police response across the country was uniformly negative and the violence was more & less depending on where it occurred but the crackdown was real and everywhere. We do seem to agree on that at least. Letting protests that continue to go on in spite of that go on without more crushing tactics isn't 'woke' any more than they were "allowing" religious gatherings that were going to go on regardless specifically to flaunt restrictions. That torpedoes any point DeSantis has again, aside from him giving away the game with "Faucian dystopia".

Why are you trying to spin this as woke so hard?

[hyped78]

The mural you admittedly brought up as an aside was a city block. I quoted what you're quoting here. And we "directionally agree" on the bolded, a strange term.

Yes, the police response across the country was uniformly negative and the violence was more & less depending on where it occurred but the crackdown was real and everywhere. We do seem to agree on that at least. Letting protests that continue to go on in spite of that go on without more crushing tactics isn't 'woke' any more than they were "allowing" religious gatherings that were going to go on regardless specifically to flaunt restrictions. That torpedoes any point DeSantis has again, aside from him giving away the game with "Faucian dystopia".

Why are you trying to spin this as woke so hard?

Have you seen what religious gathering were being allowed? E.g. very small funerals.

I am not trying to spin this as woke, I am just contextualizing what his point is; although the more we talk about it here the less I understand why BLM protests got a free pass during Covid lockdowns, when cities were trying to limit the spread of the virus and trying to avoid people dying, health systems being overwhelmed, etc. I wasn't allowed to attend a funeral on this side of the ocean, for example, and that's not a chance I can get back.

My point is - Tendrin quoted DeSantis without any context. DeSantis said "the virus is woke", but that's not actually what he said/ what his point is (however flawed it is!) and I know you recognize that. He's not talking about the virus itself, he's talking about certain elected officials' reaction/ handling of the virus, in light of allowing BLM protests as the big(gest) exception over Covid lockdown rules before a vaccine had been found.

Notice that Tendrin's post has a one sentence quote - it doesn't have the full article, it doesn't even have a link. If it had a link or a full article, then it would have been fine. Considering that MAGA folks are experts at misquoting and taking things out of context, this seems to be a bit the same.

"directionally agree" - why is that a strange term? (honest question) I mostly work with Americans and some of them use that wording, in a business context, quite often. Even though I live in London, I'm not a native English speaker, btw, I'm Dutch (English is my 3rd language)

[CaptainEurope]

Well, it's evidence the case is proceeding. I'm not holding my breath until Trump's found guilty though.

And now this:

In a monumental ruling Friday, a federal judge ordered Donald Trump attorney Evan Corcoran to provide additional testimony as part of an investigation into the former president’s handling of classified documents, a source familiar with the matter told CNN.

Corcoran has the potential to become one of the most crucial witnesses in special counsel Jack Smith’s criminal investigation into possible mishandling of classified records after the Trump presidency and obstruction of justice.

District Judge Beryl Howell said in an order under seal that Justice Department prosecutors have met the threshold for the crime-fraud exception for Corcoran, the source said.

The decision hands Trump yet another loss under seal in court as his team and allies have tried to hold off Smith’s investigators from learning about direct conversations the former president had with some of his closest advisers.

The development is particularly notable because of accusations prosecutors would have made about Trump as they argued to the judge for the grand jury testimony.

More here: https://edition.cnn.com/2023/03/17/p...y-trump-lawyer

[Dalak]

Have you seen what religious gathering were being allowed? E.g. very small funerals.

I am not trying to spin this as woke, although the more we talk about it here the less I understand why BLM protests got a free pass during Covid lockdowns, when cities were trying to limit the spread of the virus and trying to avoid people dying, health systems being overwhelmed, etc. I wasn't allowed to attend a funeral on this side of the ocean, for example, and that's not a chance I can get back.

My point is - Tendrin quoted DeSantis without any context. DeSantis said "the virus is woke", but that's not actually what he said/ what his point is (however flawed it is!) and I know you recognize that. He's not talking about the virus itself, he's talking about certain elected officials' reaction/ handling of the virus, in light of allowing BLM protests as the big(gest) exception over Covid lockdown rules before a vaccine had been found.

The fact that after everything we've been talking about you honestly think they got a "free pass" at all is stunning. Protests against police violence met with increasing police violence getting a "free pass"?!

BTW, you expanded the conversation nationwide in what I previously bolded, and that includes the southern states where Megachurches held services in the midst of lockdowns. It was clear I was talking nationally from any context you want to take, just as it's obvious that DeSantis wasn't speaking about just NY either.

DeSantis and many other republicans lace their bullshit with just enough truth amid the vagueness and lies to draw out those willing to provide 'context' which serves to mask the thrust of his arguments in the process.

Faucian Dystopia proves what he means. Not that "It was fine to go out if you're Woke, look at this!" but that shutdowns and mask mandates were bad across the board.

Look at Tom Oliver's recent video on Youtube about DeSantis if you can, it'll show why he needs no context for his obvious hate and clear agenda. Being in Florida now I'm faced with that every day.

Finally, just because you missed a funeral doesn't invalidate the other very real deaths going on in the streets unrelated to COVID which is why I think they were "allowed" to use your word. It's a concept very similar to how the entire high-school I was in got away with screaming "WE DON'T NEED NO WATER LET THE ************ BURN!" at a (mandatory) pep rally because they used the wrong song in a Cheerleading clip-fest - It was everywhere and unstoppable, so what can you do about it other than let it go on? They couldn't punish us all. In the same way you can't stop a flood, just isolate pockets from the waters and weather the storm the best you can.

[hyped78]

The fact that after everything we've been talking about you honestly think they got a "free pass" at all is stunning. Protests against police violence met with increasing police violence getting a "free pass"?!

BTW, you expanded the conversation nationwide in what I previously bolded, and that includes the southern states where Megachurches held services in the midst of lockdowns. It was clear I was talking nationally from any context you want to take, just as it's obvious that DeSantis wasn't speaking about just NY either.



Look at Tom Oliver's recent video on Youtube about DeSantis if you can, it'll show why he needs no context for his obvious hate and clear agenda. Being in Florida now I'm faced with that every day.

Finally, just because you missed a funeral doesn't invalidate the other very real deaths going on in the streets unrelated to COVID which is why I think they were "allowed" to use your word. It's a concept very similar to how the entire high-school I was in got away with screaming "WE DON'T NEED NO WATER LET THE ************ BURN!" at a (mandatory) pep rally because they used the wrong song in a Cheerleading clip-fest - It was everywhere and unstoppable, so what can you do about it other than let it go on? They couldn't punish us all. In the same way you can't stop a flood, just isolate pockets from the waters and weather the storm the best you can.

It's clear DeSantis was speaking about the entire country, yes (or at least the "liberal states/ cities"). I centered the conversation in NY just because it's easier to speak about a particular state than to use a scattershot approach.

"free pass" - Covid lockdown rules in place didn't allow for demonstrations. Apparently BLM was the big exception.

"southern states where Megachurches held services in the midst of lockdowns" - also wrong. That doesn't make the other situation right.

"why he needs no context for his obvious hate and clear agenda" - I've seen enough from DeSantis to despise him, don't worry. But that's also besides the point about context and being honest when quoting someone, don't you agree?

"just because you missed a funeral doesn't invalidate the other very real deaths going on in the streets unrelated to COVID which is why I think they were "allowed" to use your word" - are you essentially saying that it's OK that the Covid lockdown rules apply to some and not to others? You're basically acknowledging what DeSantis also acknowledged, you're just coming in from the other side of the equation.
Covid doesn't care if it's a BLM march or a Wall Street social event.

"Being in Florida now I'm faced with that every day" - but you're from Texas, right?

(to be clear - I was very happy when Chauvin got his ass sentenced)

[Jack Dracula]

And now this:



More here: https://edition.cnn.com/2023/03/17/p...y-trump-lawyer

I am cautiously optimistic.