All purpose news and politics thread part VI: This Is Not The Time For Posing

[Panfoot]

It's a lot like climate change, the longer we've gone without treating the problem, the more insurmountable the solution seems to be. There is no magic single law that can get passed that will fix it, it's gonna take a long, long, long time and a concerted effort to to see results, but as long as we continue to do jack ****, it's only gonna get worse.

[AnakinFlair]

But in Australia, police, criminals, and government still have guns - just the people don't. Again, is that what people want?

I still believe in the principle behind the 2nd Amendment, which was to protect people from invading forces, other people who would harm them, and yes their own government. I would love to live in a utopian society where this wasn't necessary but relatively recent history (i.e. Nazis) tells me that there is still too much evil with people in power that exists for everyone in the US to just surrender their means to defend themselves. When something like today happens, it makes me doubt everything. But again, when the alternative is that we just blindly trust the government or police to protect us? It makes me very uneasy

What do people want? Not to be f**king shot.

The second amendment was written during a time when weapons fired one round a minute. The founders never foresaw a day when you had a weapon like an AR-15. And for what purpose do you need to own an AR-15? What in the blue hell are you going to hunt with that?

But hey, the second amendment is here, and we obviously don't have the balls to do anything about it. So here's a thought- let's put limits on ammunition. Let's say you need to be licensed to buy ammo, and you need to pass strict background checks to even qualify for a license. After all, the 2nd says we have the right to keep and bear ARMS. It's doesn't say jack about ammo.

Sorry, this one has really hit me today, and I am beyond angry.

[babyblob]

We live in a country where you cant go to a grocery store, cant go to a concert, cant go to church, For gods sake cant go to fucking school with out fear of being shot. And we have way too many that are okay with this. We have too many in the country that defend the kind of world where this happens again and again. And no one does any thing. So yes People are sad, angry, and lets be honest scared. Parents have to sit down and try to explain to their children not to be scared while at the same time trying to tell them how to be safe and what to watch for. Parents are scared to send their children to school. People when they go to stores have to look for an exit plan.

It is sick, it is tiring, and it is maddening.

[godisawesome]

But in Australia, police, criminals, and government still have guns - just the people don't. Again, is that what people want?

I still believe in the principle behind the 2nd Amendment, which was to protect people from invading forces, other people who would harm them, and yes their own government. I would love to live in a utopian society where this wasn't necessary but relatively recent history (i.e. Nazis) tells me that there is still too much evil with people in power that exists for everyone in the US to just surrender their means to defend themselves. When something like today happens, it makes me doubt everything. But again, when the alternative is that we just blindly trust the government or police to protect us? It makes me very uneasy

A big part of the issue is the bad faith arguments placed in scenarios like the one you’re espousing, though likely more because of what bad actors have taken the time to construct in their narrative.

The people who should be wary of the government and police in the country are not the ones who society wishes to see armed or who benefit from being armed the way they should - see: Philandro Castile, the Black Panthers, etc. At the same time, the laws of the nation in some cases encourage evil people with privilege and even just privileged idiots to add lethal violence to situations that don’t require it.

The answer, honestly, probably starts with some simple but uncompromising rules, even at the level of information collection - to simply clarify what parts of the country suffer the most gun violence, where the guns come from, and then *act on it.* Make even second hand amateur sellers of firearms culpable for arming bad actors in stuff like gun shows. Go ahead and start a nationwide gun buyout program, but with some extra teeth in other areas, like simply classifying those idiot militias as persons of interest in domestic terrorism and putting restrictions on what they can carry and where - to be blunt, right wing fanatics have lost the benefit of the doubt just as much as the mentally disturbed.

And on some level… real patriots need to start pushing for judicial selection based off the original meaning and contextual reading of the 2nd Amendment instead of the NRA’s shitty one.

It ain’t patriotic to demand the right to cosplay as a cowboy with an assault rifle. It’s pathetic, nationalist ****.

[kingaliencracker]

What do people want? Not to be f**king shot.

The second amendment was written during a time when weapons fired one round a minute. The founders never foresaw a day when you had a weapon like an AR-15. And for what purpose do you need to own an AR-15? What in the blue hell are you going to hunt with that?

But hey, the second amendment is here, and we obviously don't have the balls to do anything about it. So here's a thought- let's put limits on ammunition. Let's say you need to be licensed to buy ammo, and you need to pass strict background checks to even qualify for a license. After all, the 2nd says we have the right to keep and bear ARMS. It's doesn't say jack about ammo.

Sorry, this one has really hit me today, and I am beyond angry.

The idea that the forefathers couldn't predict advances in weaponry at the time they drafted the Bill of Rights isn't rooted in logic. They may not have foreseen nuclear bombs or chemical weapons, but there's plenty of literature from that time that clearly indicates they knew of advancing technology and the impacts that would have on warfare.

I'm not opposed to heavier restrictions or backgrounds on guns or their owners, but I always found that argument flimsy.

[babyblob]

19 sets of parents sent their single digit aged children to school today. They worries were I hope they like what I have planned for dinner, I hope they dont make a fuss when I say do chores before tv and video games,

Now their world is destroyed and rather then planning summer activities for kids who were out of school in two days they have to plan funerals. If you gun nits see all that and still push "Muh Freedoms" You are sick in the head.

[numberthirty]

What do people want? Not to be f**king shot.

The second amendment was written during a time when weapons fired one round a minute. The founders never foresaw a day when you had a weapon like an AR-15. And for what purpose do you need to own an AR-15? What in the blue hell are you going to hunt with that?

But hey, the second amendment is here, and we obviously don't have the balls to do anything about it. So here's a thought- let's put limits on ammunition. Let's say you need to be licensed to buy ammo, and you need to pass strict background checks to even qualify for a license. After all, the 2nd says we have the right to keep and bear ARMS. It's doesn't say jack about ammo.

Sorry, this one has really hit me today, and I am beyond angry.

While I do get that people are hurt/angry?

America needs to get real with itself about what you mentioned just being one side of the coin.

Is attempting to deal with gun laws a brick wall that we need to keep punching?

Absolutely.

That said...

We have to start to deal with that America creates the sorts of folks that will do this in a way that no place else on Earth really does.

While it's been years without really lifting a finger to even start to change gun laws?

Each one of the people who have done this, never mind the kids, is someone that we probably failed.

Each one of the years where nothing really changed when it came to gun laws is also a year when we could have really tried to change that folks are slipping through the cracks.

That's not to minimize the lives that they took. It's just to point out that we failed them the same as we failed their victims.

[Panfoot]

19 sets of parents sent their single digit aged children to school today. They worries were I hope they like what I have planned for dinner, I hope they dont make a fuss when I say do chores before tv and video games,

Now their world is destroyed and rather then planning summer activities for kids who were out of school in two days they have to plan funerals. If you gin nits see all that and still push "Muh Freedoms" You are sick in the head.

I think it all boils down to the same thing that we see with anti-LGBT bigotry, racism, abortion, healthcare cost, etc...If it hasn't happened to me or my family, not my problem.

[kingaliencracker]

19 sets of parents sent their single digit aged children to school today. They worries were I hope they like what I have planned for dinner, I hope they dont make a fuss when I say do chores before tv and video games,

Now their world is destroyed and rather then planning summer activities for kids who were out of school in two days they have to plan funerals. If you gin nits see all that and still push "Muh Freedoms" You are sick in the head.

I'll always push for freedom, friend. Freedom is as absolute as the right to live.

No one here is psychotic and isn't ripped to shreds by what happened today. But the very first response from both sides is the political line in the sand that gets us nowhere. So rather than go that route, let's actually sit down, talk about the issue, and make impactful change. If we go down the rabbit hole of "#enough" and "destroy all guns", you're flat out going to lose and the tragedy continues. I live in Colorado, was in high school when Columbine happened and live 10 minutes from the Cinemark theater in Aurora. No one should have to go through this.

[kingaliencracker]

I think it all boils down to the same thing that we see with anti-LGBT bigotry, racism, abortion, healthcare cost, etc...If it hasn't happened to me or my family, not my problem.

I really don't think that's it. I think what it really is, is that it's become so political and uncompromising that neither side can make headway to actually improve things. So it becomes rhetoric and a bunch of grandstanding, but nothing more.

[Kal-El Summers]

A twitter thread where a bunch of teachers describe the active shooter drills they go through with their kids.

The initial tweet is... harrowing.

[Wildling]

I think it all boils down to the same thing that we see with anti-LGBT bigotry, racism, abortion, healthcare cost, etc...If it hasn't happened to me or my family, not my problem.

And let's not forget, regarding that sentiment, earlier stages of the pandemic with the poor/people of color being reported as being affected the most. Or blue states like NY being hit hard and early due to high travel while the reddest corners chilled at it.

I've seen it brought up that highly conservative thought and empathy don't mix well in America, and it holds up as far as I've seen.

[Panfoot]

I really don't think that's it. I think what it really is, is that it's become so political and uncompromising that neither side can make headway to actually improve things. So it becomes rhetoric and a bunch of grandstanding, but nothing more.

Only one side has been pushing back on *any* restrictions whatsoever for years.

[JackDaw]

Another school shooting.

21 dead. Again some mentally disturbed teenager with body armour and a semi-automatic weapon. (Incidentally in my blacker moments wonder what body count a highly determined organised guy could account for in a single incident.)

To misquote Oscar Wilde “one may be a tragedy, two unfortunate, three begins to look like deliberate policy”. Basically US numbers for this sort of incident are so much worse than for comparable countries that any sane politician (or person) has to accept need for substantial change.

[Iron Maiden]

Only one side has been pushing back on *any* restrictions whatsoever for years.

And it's getting worse. Here in a mostly Red state Indiana the legislature passed a bill in March that allows permitlesss carry and you can carry a gun in public without a permit. You can still get one if you travel to a state that requires one. If for some reason you have been prohibited from owning a gun before the law goes into effect, that will still be in effect or that individual. I think there are now about 20 states that are doing the same. I know Kentucky is another anyway.

Indiana has also been getting some pushback from Illinois because there are a number of guns that are purchased here in gun shows or in stores that end up in the hands of criminals in Chicago. A gun trace report in 2017 showed that about 1 in 4 guns picked up by the Chicago police came from 10 stores in Illinois and northern Indiana. Probably a lot of this involved straw purchases. I know one "sports" store not far from where I live is notorious for this. I would pass by there and see cars with Illinois plates there. The county fairgrounds has frequent gun shows. So when you have a situation like we have in the states where one state is adjacent a state that has very loose if any controls then you're going to have a problem. This country will never get a handle on the proliferation of guns in my lifetime. Sales were huge during the pandemic.