All purpose news and politics thread part VI: This Is Not The Time For Posing

[MiddleMan]

watching Jon Osoff this morning

if it was any state other than Georgia, Id be convinced but its a tight race in there

[Ragged Maw]

The guy calling women b*tches and getting kicked out? No. He was black. Which is why it was funny that he stood outside after telling people the store manager that kicked him out was a racist but not mentioning that she was black.

Well, kudos then. Better still if said officer’s precinct considers that the standard approach to tense situations.

[PwrdOn]

It would still be an issue, as the vaccine would still be developed on existing infrastructure designed to protect certain information. Its not like flipping a switch.

There's no indication that information is actually being withheld, so much as it is hackers trying to jump the line and steal untested data

The vaccine data is all being held by private companies, it's not like accessing that information would open a backdoor to other state secrets or anything like that. And of course the information is being withheld, because again these are private companies that are hoping to develop the vaccine and profit from selling it, they won't just share their information with a competitor even though, given the scope of the crisis we're all in, they really should be.

[The Cool Thatguy]

The vaccine data is all being held by private companies, it's not like accessing that information would open a backdoor to other state secrets or anything like that. And of course the information is being withheld, because again these are private companies that are hoping to develop the vaccine and profit from selling it, they won't just share their information with a competitor even though, given the scope of the crisis we're all in, they really should be.

While I don't deny that many companies are trying to make a profit, I know enough about computer systems to know that allowing open access isn't as easy as flipping a switch.

I also know that China loves to steal intellectual secrets, so I can fully understand why companies wouldn't want to let them 'peak under the hood', as it were.

Can you prove that the information is being denied to them completely? Because otherwise, you're complaining about companies not allowing a fox in their henhouse

[Mister Mets]

It would still be an issue, as the vaccine would still be developed on existing infrastructure designed to protect certain information. Its not like flipping a switch.

There's no indication that information is actually being withheld, so much as it is hackers trying to jump the line and steal untested data

There's also no indication that whoever is stealing information from others is sharing their own information, or that if they were to get a vaccine, they wouldn't insist on something in return.

And the data may be used for other purposes as well.

You want to reform police unions influence on protecting bad apples? Sign me up. All for it in police, teacher and every other union.

There seems to be an argument that cops should be expected to act in ways that people in other professions do not.

One can make a reasonable argument that anyone in any field must stop covering for flawed coworkers. This might be a healthy development.

What does this have to do with extrajudicial police tactics?

The whole argument is about whether progressives would stand up for conservatives were the situation reversed.

In this case, progressives are upset about a specific example where one can reasonably argue that people to whom they are politically simpatico are wronged by Republican officeholders/ appointees. So to determine how they would act if the situation were reversed, we should consider whether there is any example of progressives standing up for conservatives arguably wronged by Democratic officeholders/ appointees.

If there aren't any such examples, that fits the idea that the response to this would largely be partisan.

[MiddleMan]

The whole argument is about whether progressives would stand up for conservatives were the situation reversed.

In this case, progressives are upset about a specific example where one can reasonably argue that people to whom they are politically simpatico are wronged by Republican officeholders/ appointees. So to determine how they would act if the situation were reversed, we should consider whether there is any example of progressives standing up for conservatives arguably wronged by Democratic officeholders/ appointees.

If there aren't any such examples, that fits the idea that the response to this would largely be partisan.

are you attempting to make the argument that progessives wouldn't care if conservatives were getting black bagged off American streets?

WTF is wrong with you??

NO CITIZEN should be snatched up like that...PERIOD

[The Cool Thatguy]

are you attempting to make the argument that progessives wouldn't care if conservatives were getting black bagged off American streets?

WTF is wrong with you??

NO CITIZEN should be snatched up like that...PERIOD

I'd point out that progressives are far more willing to call out our own than conservatives. The virtually the entire GOP is silent as Trump mismanages everything about COVID

[zinderel]

What does this have to do with extrajudicial police tactics?

Nothing. Just Mets defending the indefensible and deflecting attention from what’s ACTUALLY happening with whataboutism and JAQing off, as usual. He’s been doing it for years. Every time the Republican Party crosses yet another line of common human decency, he gets REAL ‘curious’ about what progressives/liberals/democrats (apparently interchangeable...) would do if it was THEIR leadership who did the deed. Never mind that someone ACTUALLY HAS done something despicable/vile/monstrous and yet again it’s someone connected to the party he supports blindly and loyally. So...”What about what liberals Would do in this situation?!“

It’s not even offensive anymore, so much as it’s just a day ending in a ‘y’ in which we are discussing a Republican official or policy that has done something or just flat out IS criminal. *shrug*

Seriously, though, Mets...? What do you take to sleep at night? I need something other than melatonin, and if you can sleep with a clean conscience after 3+ years of this obscenity we call a presidency (not to mention the six millennia that Mitch McConnell has been running the party...), then you MUST have the good stuff...

[Mister Mets]

are you attempting to make the argument that progessives wouldn't care if conservatives were getting black bagged off American streets?

WTF is wrong with you??

NO CITIZEN should be snatched up like that...PERIOD

As far as I can tell, there is no black bagging (kidnapping prior to beatings/ "disappearances") of people off the streets. This is not something occurring either to progressives or conservatives.

[zinderel]

As far as I can tell, there is no black bagging (kidnapping prior to beatings/ "disappearances") of people off the streets. This is not something occurring either to progressives or conservatives.

You’re right, of course. They aren’t being snatched, they’re being politely escorted to a coffee and donut lunch, I’m sure.

Never mind the reality that peaceful protestors are being literally snatched off the street. Clearly, to you, that none of the people abducted have officially been disappeared/erased yet (that we know of, since we’re still dealing with it and it’s a new thing your leader is imposing on us in his bid to be more like the dictators he openly idolizes who DO disappear people into gulags, thus making these concerns we are discussing completely valid to everyone but sycophants to the Presidential Pile) makes this a non-issue!

These aren’t kidnappings or extrajudicial assaults/abductions! They’re perfectly reasonable actions by an honorable Republican president who is known for his sense of justice, fairness and appropriate reactions to things...

Oh wait...

[Jack Dracula]

I'm curious if you can think of examples where progressives have, in the last twelve years, stood up on behalf of conservatives wronged by Democratic officeholders/ appointees. There is, I suppose, an alternative argument that there is no situation in the last dozen years in which anyone can reasonably argue that conservatives were wronged by Democratic officeholders/ appointees, but that would be a stretch.

It's funny. All I can really come up with are instances where Democrats stood up for Conservatives harming their own constituents.
Why is that I wonder?

[Kirby101]

The whole argument is about whether progressives would stand up for conservatives were the situation reversed.

No mets, the argument is whether the President of the United States can use Gestapo tactics.
The rest is you trying to keep the discussion away from the leader of YOUR Party and the complicity of YOUR Party in enabling him.

Not an imaginary bullshit scenerio you have pulled out of your ass to muddy the waters here.

If you were actually as outraged by this as you should be, you would not continue in this whatabout garbage.

And BTW Mets, this is what Trump's Goons did



So keep trying to make this an argument about fantasy Democratic behavior, it only reflects on you.

[BeastieRunner]

No mets, the argument is whether the President of the United States can use Gestapo tactics.
The rest is you trying to keep the discussion away from the leader of YOUR Party and the complicity of YOUR Party in enabling him.

Not an imaginary bullshit scenerio you have pulled out of your ass to muddy the waters here.

If you were actually as outraged by this as you should be, you would not continue in this whatabout garbage.

They're using border security.

I think this brings up a bigger issue.

Why use that agency and not the police?

[mogwen]

As far as I can tell, there is no black bagging (kidnapping prior to beatings/ "disappearances") of people off the streets. This is not something occurring either to progressives or conservatives.

https://talkingpointsmemo.com/news/d...le-in-portland
So the DHS chief explained they're doing "proactive arrests".
Tell me, are proactive arrestations lawful or constitutional?
Is it Minority report and if so do the US have augurs? Because from where I stand proactive arrestations are unlawful and more akin to kidnapping and the things that are done in authoritarian regimes, don't you think?

[zinderel]

They're using border security.

I think this brings up a bigger issue.

Why use that agency and not the police?

The only reason I can think of is that ICE is full of loyal racists who wanna see liberal tears ALMOST as much as they want to see a racially ‘pure’ America, and thus are easier to convince to cross lines of decency than the military - which has this pansy-ass progressive ‘chain of command’ nonsense - or the police - who ultimately answer to the worthless lie-beral mayor and governor and not the wannabe dictator, soooo...