1. #21256
    Ultimate Member Tendrin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by shooshoomanjoe View Post
    Just heard on the radio that DC mayor is appointing a joint terrorism task for to look for and arrest these rioters. I guess that means they might be prosecuted for terrorism?
    There absolutely must be real consequences. At long last, there has to be real consequences.

  2. #21257
    Astonishing Member JackDaw's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tendrin View Post
    There absolutely must be real consequences. At long last, there has to be real consequences.
    Agree. But I actually think the rioters themselves are the wrong targets...

    The Donald himself has done a series of things in recent months that any sane person would realise would cause death and destruction on a wide scale.

    Is it really possible that he doesn’t realise he’s lying about winning the election? I don’t think it is: I think the people who argue he believes his own lies are too generous to him, that he knows fully want he’s doing.

    Similarly does he not realise that organising mass rallies in the middle of a pandemic leads to death and illness?

    I’m not against specific rioters being tried...of course I’m not.

    But ultimately I think it’s even more important if we’re really interested in justice as opposed to the mechanical application of the law, that the guy whose actions made the riots unavoidable should be held to account.

  3. #21258
    Extraordinary Member Revolutionary_Jack's Avatar
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    This is really chilling:
    https://www.wbez.org/stories/*******...gs6qOtq87mg3l8

    The people who stormed the U.S. Capitol on Wednesday are getting support from the president of Chicago’s Fraternal Order of Police lodge.

    John Catanzara, elected last May to represent the city’s 12,000 rank-and-file police officers, said he understands the frustration behind the riot, which led to four deaths, injuries to several police officers and damage to the iconic building.

    “There was no arson, there was no burning of anything, there was no looting, there was very little destruction of property,” Catanzara told WBEZ in a Wednesday evening phone interview. “It was a bunch of pissed-off people that feel an election was stolen, somehow, some way.”

    Catanzara echoed President Donald Trump’s oft-repeated false claims that Joe Biden stole the election. But the FOP leader admitted there is no proof.

    “I don’t have any doubt that something shady happened in this election,” Catanzara said. “You’re not going to convince me that that many people voted for Joe Biden. Never for the rest of my life will you ever convince me of that. But, again, it still comes down to proof.”

    “Evidence matters,” Catanzara said. “Until that appears, shame on them for what they did, but it was out of frustration. There’s no fights. There’s no, obviously, violence in this crowd. They pushed past security and made their way to the Senate chamber. Did they destroy anything when they were there? No.”

    Video and photographs of the incident show that the rioters smashed windows of the Capitol and ransacked offices inside.

    An armed stand-off took place at the door of the House chamber as the rioters derailed the election’s certification in an attempt to keep Trump in power. Police near the building confiscated guns, pipe bombs and Molotov cocktails, NPR reported.

    Catanzara said Wednesday’s mayhem was “very different than what happened all across this country all summer long in Democratic-ran cities and nobody had a problem with that.”

    The focus last summer, he said, was “blaming the police and the police’s response to the violence, looting and criminal behavior.”

    “If the worst crime here is trespassing, so be it. But to call these people treasonous is beyond ridiculous and ignorant.”

    Catanzara said he himself “wouldn’t have partaken in” the Capitol assault but he kept defending those who did.

    “They’re individuals,” he said. “They get to do what they want. Again, they were voicing frustration. They’re entitled to voice their frustration. They clearly have been ignored and they’re still being ignored as if they’re lunatics and treasonous now, which is beyond stupid.

    “It’s a whole side of the argument and, primarily, your profession is at the root of it,” Catanzara said, referring to news media, “basically championing Joe Biden the whole time.”

    Catanzara was disciplined by the Chicago Police Department for posing in uniform in 2017 with a sign saying he supports his president. The union’s national level endorsed Trump’s election bids in both 2016 and 2020.

    Catanzara has publicly feuded with Chicago Mayor Lori Lightfoot over a host of issues. This morning Lightfoot tweeted a response to his comments.

    “This wasn’t ‘frustration.’ It was a violent insurrection. The comments by John Catanzara, Chicago FOP President, either demonstrate clear delusion or reckless disrespect for the rule of law—or both,” she wrote.

    Catanzara also criticized the outgoing president for Wednesday’s mayhem: “I’ll be the first to say Trump deserves some responsibility for this. He could have handled this whole situation quite differently, but that’s for him to answer, not me.”

    “Obviously it has to fall on his doorstep for what kinda happened … no doubt about it,” he said.

    But Catanzara said the riot was getting blown out of proportion.

    “It’s an inconvenience at this point, is all it is,” he said. “This is not some mass insurrection, coup attempt. They’re not destroying or burning down the fricking Capitol building. This hyperbole and this emotion that the media is spewing now, like this is some kind of end-of-times scenario, is ridiculous.”
    Head of a police union of a major city making this kind of statement provides a dangerous set of circumstances.

    On the plus side, many of the Senate and House now get to feel the way about police that BLM activists do.

  4. #21259

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hellion View Post
    Since the humor in the cruelty is the spice of life, has anybody here got any info on how the sane members of Kellyanne Conway's household are reacting to recent events?

    It wouldn't surprise me if her husband has lost his voice from all the gleeful cackling.
    The Conways should be irrelevant to what happened on 1/6. I don't care what take they've got. It's got no bearing compared to what the FBI, CIA, incoming AG, and other law enforcement agencies have to say. I want to know who's in on the coup planning, who carried out the attempt, when they'll be arrested, and what charges they'll face.

    I don't need the household of alternative facts giving their thoughts. Best wishes to the daughter getting emancipated from her fam down the line, but the further they are from this, the better off she is.
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  5. #21260
    Extraordinary Member Revolutionary_Jack's Avatar
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    https://news.yahoo.com/loeffler-conc...233445291.html

    Loeffler concedes to Warnock.

    https://news.yahoo.com/raffensperger...231745526.html

    Terrorists marched at state capitols including GA including a bunch who came for Raffensperger so that they can...ahem "hand deliver" a list of grievances to him. Police intercepted him in time.

  6. #21261
    Extraordinary Member PaulBullion's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Malvolio View Post
    Even if the woman who was shot and killed was a Trump supporter, she would not have been there if Trump hadn't incited the mob. Trump has blood on his hands and should be prosecuted in some way for this.
    I'll grant her some agency here. She probably voted for Trump, knowing what he was. It's an Ouroboros of shittishness.
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  7. #21262
    Astonishing Member Korath's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Amadeus Arkham View Post
    Poll: Majority of Republicans blame Biden for mob storming the Capitol

    No surprise. I’m seeing in my twitter feed a lot of conservative supporters who think Biden somehow got antifa to masquerade as Trump voters in order to make Trump look bad.
    Ah putain... will they ever learn to get the shit out of their eyes, those damn morons !?

    Quote Originally Posted by Revolutionary_Jack View Post
    Some interesting stuff about international agencies on what happened yesterday.

    French Intelligence and others in Europe said they informed their governments that yesterday saw Donald Trump attempt a coup d'etat on US Soil.
    https://www.b usinessinsider.com/trump-attempted-coup-federal-law-enforcement-capitol-police-2021-1

    Delete the space after the first b...for some reason the site doesn't link here properly.
    It feels so strange to see a French police officer saying all this. Then again, I guess they know what they say, onsidering the amount of violence they allow in demonstrations over here, since the Gilets Jaunes crisis started.
    Last edited by Korath; 01-08-2021 at 12:39 AM.

  8. #21263
    Astonishing Member Korath's Avatar
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    Oops, double post.

  9. #21264
    Invincible Member numberthirty's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Revolutionary_Jack View Post
    This is really chilling:
    https://www.wbez.org/stories/*******...gs6qOtq87mg3l8

    ...

    Head of a police union of a major city making this kind of statement provides a dangerous set of circumstances.

    On the plus side, many of the Senate and House now get to feel the way about police that BLM activists do.
    While the guy is not exactly front page news, what's there is not really that far out of character...

    https://news.wttw.com/2020/12/18/***...al-media-posts

    Chicago Police Union President Could Be Fired Over Social Media Posts
    The head of Chicago’s police union faces possible termination from his position with the Chicago Police Department over multiple inflammatory social media posts, including one in which he said Muslims “all deserve a bullet.”

    Civilian Office of Police Accountability Chief Administrator Sydney Roberts previously recommended that John Catanzara, president of the Fraternal Order of Police Lodge 7, be fired over the posts, while Police Superintendent David Brown objected and instead recommended a one-year suspension.

  10. #21265
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    Sad news, the capitol police officer that was hit in the head with a fire extinguisher has died. Poor guy. The guys involved in this insurrection need to be dragged out and prosecuted.

    But seriously, what happened the other day has deeper implications. What if a more intelligent and coherent version of Trump comes in, colludes with the security forces and allows the take over of the Capitol building? Quite clearly, capitol police had no problem with the terrorists and I'm pretty sure a lot of them are Trump supporters. In fact, considering just how white supremacy and policing is somewhat intertwined, a lot of police officers would willingly support violent insurrections just so their "leader" could stay in power.

    Folks shouldn't say it can't happen in the US, it quite clearly can. If does happen, what then?
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  11. #21266
    Astonishing Member Korath's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Username taken View Post
    Sad news, the capitol police officer that was hit in the head with a fire extinguisher has died. Poor guy. The guys involved in this insurrection need to be dragged out and prosecuted.

    But seriously, what happened the other day has deeper implications. What if a more intelligent and coherent version of Trump comes in, colludes with the security forces and allows the take over of the Capitol building? Quite clearly, capitol police had no problem with the terrorists and I'm pretty sure a lot of them are Trump supporters. In fact, considering just how white supremacy and policing is somewhat intertwined, a lot of police officers would willingly support violent insurrections just so their "leader" could stay in power.

    Folks shouldn't say it can't happen in the US, it quite clearly can. If does happen, what then?
    It would depends on the army's reaction, if lawmakers had been held hostage by the QAnon terrorists. If a significant portion of it sided with them, or even just refused to act against them, then you'd probably get a Second Civil War, with several States at the very least trying to oppose the Coup, or even going for Secession.

    In any case, Police is often the first infiltrated by white supremacists and far-right loons.The armies are also prone to it, but their training is supposed to prevent them from turning against the lawful institutions and processes. When they hold firm to it, the coup fails, like in Guaido's pathetic attempts in Venezuela. When they don't, you get what's happened in Bolivia, when a US backed organism lied about the election and its fairness and the army chose to not oppose the racist, far-right Christians who threatened, beat and killed MAS supporters and elected members, until their own incompetence allowed for the landslide victory of MAS - again.

  12. #21267
    Latverian ambassador Iron Maiden's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Username taken View Post
    Sad news, the capitol police officer that was hit in the head with a fire extinguisher has died. Poor guy. The guys involved in this insurrection need to be dragged out and prosecuted.

    But seriously, what happened the other day has deeper implications. What if a more intelligent and coherent version of Trump comes in, colludes with the security forces and allows the take over of the Capitol building? Quite clearly, capitol police had no problem with the terrorists and I'm pretty sure a lot of them are Trump supporters. In fact, considering just how white supremacy and policing is somewhat intertwined, a lot of police officers would willingly support violent insurrections just so their "leader" could stay in power.

    Folks shouldn't say it can't happen in the US, it quite clearly can. If does happen, what then?

    That is terrible that the Capital police officer died. The more info that comes out about the lack of support from other forces in the area, the more I feel like there was no coordinated plan to mobilize all possible resources.

    Pentagon deflects blame for security failure at the Capitol

    Army Secretary Ryan McCarthy said that in the midst of the chaos on Wednesday, it was clear that the Capitol Hill police were “overrun.” There have since been calls for Sund to resign his position, including from Speaker of the House Nancy Pelosi.

    McCarthy explained on Thursday that in the days before Wednesday’s riots, D.C. Mayor Muriel Bowser put in a request for support from the D.C. National Guard, of which McCarthy holds the authority to mobilize, on Jan. 5 and 6. Through a “mission analysis” conducted on Dec. 31 and into the weekend, McCarthy said it was determined that there was a need for around 340 guardsmen to “support traffic control points, metro station crowd facilitation, as well as a chem-bio hazardous materials team on standby to support law enforcement.” Others within that group include a 40-person Quick Reaction Force (QRF) at Andrews Air Force Base, Md. and others tasked with logistics. Despite a “series of meetings” leading up to Jan. 6 with agencies including the Department of Homeland Security and Capitol Hill Police, no other requests were made, McCarthy said.

    McCarthy also said that the intelligence regarding the expected size of the crowds on Wednesday was “all over the board,” with different estimates ranging from 2,000 to 80,000 people. The assessment of the situation clearly changed on Wednesday as a mob invaded the Capitol building. As chaos ensued, McCarthy said it was “very, very hard to get the adequate read” of what was happening with the Capitol Hill police, and how guardsmen could “tie in with them and then start this operation.”

    “Over the course of an hour or so, it was clear there was tremendous confusion coming out of the Capitol,” McCarthy said. “And that’s where leaders all descended and put a hasty plan together, and moved very quickly to clear the Capitol and get the Congress back in there by 8 p.m. so we could certify the election.”


    The sheer lack of preparedness on Wednesday was better put into perspective when McCarthy said on Thursday that the Defense Department “did not conduct any planning or contingency planning on the Capitol.”

    “[Law enforcement] would have had to request that in advance to say, in the event of an issue, we’d have the following criteria of us to support them,” he said. “Obviously in order for us to support another branch of government, they’ve got to ask us. The request has to come to us.”

    As many have pointed out, while the storming of the Capitol happened quickly, there was plenty of heads-up online. The gathering of Trump supporters on Wednesday was not a surprise, nor was it last-minute. President Donald Trump tweeted and shared others’ tweets about the “wild” protests coming on Jan. 6 again, and again, and again.
    Reporters who cover disinformation and and conspiracy theories said that Wednesday’s events were not surprising as the people who showed up have threatened to do so “for years.”



    Ken Rapuano, the Pentagon’s assistant secretary for homeland defense, said on Thursday that while there were “general descriptions of some of the internet traffic” that was discussed “in several of the calls” they had with other agencies, it ultimately wasn’t of much concern. “Overall, the assessment that we got repeatedly was no indication of significant violent protest,” Rapuano said.

    After the siege, many were asking about the difference in the show of force when compared to the National Guard’s response to the Black Lives Matter protests over the summer brought about by the killing of George Floyd in May. McCarthy said they were different situations because there were days of building unrest in the wake of Floyd’s death, whereas Wednesday’s violence exploded within hours.


    “That transpired over several days,” McCarthy said of the George Floyd protests. “Yesterday was a very short fuse. … When we got the call around, just shortly before 2 p.m., we had mobilized our entire guard, moved our personnel off of their traffic control points back to the armory, put on riot gear, and were in position in less than two hours to then go and help support the clearing of the Capitol.”

    “Clearly the Capitol was under duress, and if you’re under duress, minutes and seconds count. I appreciate that from my time in uniform, I get it,” McCarthy said. “But in this instance, people were moving hard and fast.”

    McCarthy announced in a Thursday press conference a significant increase in National Guard troops for D.C. along with additional security measures in the area. He said that by the weekend, 6,200 guardsmen would be in the D.C. area — including the full D.C. guard, along with support from the New York, New Jersey, Pennsylvania, Delaware, Maryland, and Virginia Guards.


    He also said that a non-scalable 7-foot fence was being erected around the Capitol building. The guardsmen and the extra security measures will stay in place for “no less than 30 days,” he said. Officials are also planning increased security measures for the inauguration of President-elect Joe Biden.

    “From our perspective, we’re focused on what is the current operational need,” Hoffman said. “Our time horizon looking at this is through the inauguration of the president-elect, what do we need to do to help authorities in the National Capital Region to secure the NCR for that time period, and ensure there is a peaceful inauguration and transition.”



    Wow.... talk about closing the barn door after the horse is gone.....why didn't they realize that they would need those 6,200 Guardman FOR THE VERY DAY OF TRUMP'S RALLY. They know how large the crowds are he attracts. There's been noise on the internet for weeks about their plans. This smells to high heaven.

  13. #21268

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    Quote Originally Posted by Username taken View Post
    Sad news, the capitol police officer that was hit in the head with a fire extinguisher has died. Poor guy. The guys involved in this insurrection need to be dragged out and prosecuted.

    But seriously, what happened the other day has deeper implications. What if a more intelligent and coherent version of Trump comes in, colludes with the security forces and allows the take over of the Capitol building? Quite clearly, capitol police had no problem with the terrorists and I'm pretty sure a lot of them are Trump supporters. In fact, considering just how white supremacy and policing is somewhat intertwined, a lot of police officers would willingly support violent insurrections just so their "leader" could stay in power.

    Folks shouldn't say it can't happen in the US, it quite clearly can. If does happen, what then?
    People storming the capitol literally waving Blue Lives Matter flags bashed in a cop's head with a fire extinguisher. There probably will be video, given everyone filming and photographing everything. They will hopefully be prosecuted for murder.

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  14. #21269
    Latverian ambassador Iron Maiden's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WAKANDA FOREVER! View Post
    Capitol Popo refused offers of back up, per AP news
    There is no link to the internet yet for his interview with Brian Williams on MSNBC last night but retired Lt. General Russel Honore (who coordinated relief efforts Hurrican Katrina) says that the both the Sargent of Arms for the House and the Senate and Chief of Capital Police Steven Sund need to be investigated to see why they turned down offers of assistance and that they need to find out if they were complicit in enabling the mob to take over. He also said he was surprised to hear that the Pentagon didn't have any back up forces on standby.

  15. #21270
    Astonishing Member 9th.'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tendrin View Post
    There absolutely must be real consequences. At long last, there has to be real consequences.
    They need to find every last one of those bozos and put them under the jail.
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