1. #21571
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hellion View Post
    While I support wholeheartedly the calls for that shameless whore, Ted Cruz, to resign, my inner pessimist already assumes he'll be the GOP Presidential candidate in 2024.

    On a lighter note, being a student of history, I tried to rack my brains for another instance of a militaristic action in the Americas playing out as half-assed and ridiculous as the Capitol riot did. All I came up with was when Captain Morgan held a war council for his captains in preparation for attacking Cartagena. While he and the captains were in discussion on his flagship, the crew were partying, and some drunken pirate accidentally ignited the ship's powder magazine. The resulting explosion destroyed the ship and killed half of Morgan's captains and over 200 crewmen.
    I hate that one of our saving graces was the sheer stupidity of Trump's people.

  2. #21572
    Old school comic book fan WestPhillyPunisher's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Amadeus Arkham View Post
    Itís deliciously ironic that Trump is banned on Tik Tok, the platform he wanted dead and buried after kids there humiliated him at that Tulsa rally back last summer.
    Avatar: Here's to the late, great Steve Dillon. Best. Punisher. Artist. EVER!

  3. #21573
    Ultimate Member Tendrin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Malvolio View Post
    George Soros. Watch his name come up again and again when right wing media types talk about who must be funding left wing protests.
    Soros is so old they've already moved onto Soros' family.

  4. #21574
    Ultimate Member Gray Lensman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Revolutionary_Jack View Post
    There was this tweet by Alex Kaplan:
    https://twitter.com/AlKapDC/status/1347713838133731334

    In the past 48 hours:
    -Twitter banned QAnon accounts
    -Twitter banned Trump
    -Reddit banned r/donaldtrump
    -Reddit banned the head moderator of r/conspiracy
    -YouTube banned Steve Bannon's show
    -Discord banned TheDonald dot win's channel
    -Google banned Parler from its app store

    And now FORBES magazine has officially sanctioned a papal bull on any corporation or business that hires Trump Press Secretaries:

    Here's Actual Footage of Silicon Valley going after Trumpworld:
    Also, Apple gave the people over at MeinSpace 24 hours to show them an improved moderator policy or they'll be pulled from the Apple store as well.
    Dark does not mean deep.

  5. #21575
    Invincible Jersey Girl Tami's Avatar
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    Members of Several Well-Known Hate Groups Identified at Capitol Riot

    Members of the ultranationalist street gang known as the Proud Boys were easy to spot at the protests that flared across the United States throughout 2020, often in the middle of a brawl, typically clad in black and yellow outfits.
    But in December, as the group’s leaders planned to flood Washington to oppose the certification of the Electoral College vote this week for President-elect Joe Biden, they decided to do something different.

    “The ProudBoys will turn out in record numbers on Jan 6th but this time with a twist...,” Henry “Enrique” Tarrio, the group’s president, wrote in a late-December post on Parler, a social media platform that has become popular with right-wing activists and conservatives. “We will not be wearing our traditional Black and Yellow. We will be incognito and we will spread across downtown DC in smaller teams. And who knows....we might dress in all BLACK for the occasion.”
    So far, police have arrested more than 80 people in connection with the attack, including at least one Proud Boy, Nick Ochs. They have seized pipe bombs and Molotov cocktails and arrested at least six people on illegal firearms charges, including one Maryland man who was captured in the visitors’ center of the Capitol. More arrests are expected.
    Stewart Rhodes, a former soldier and Yale law school graduate, who founded the Oath Keepers in 2009 and built it into a nationwide network, was seen on video standing outside the Capitol building. While he was not seen entering the Capitol, he could be seen talking with his militia followers throughout the day.
    One was Nick Fuentes, an internet personality who streams a daily talk show on DLive, an alternative social media platform. Fuentes, who marched in Charlottesville during the 2017 white power rally there, speaks frequently in anti-Semitic terms and pontificates on the need to protect America’s white heritage from the ongoing shift in the nation’s demographics. He has publicly denied believing in white nationalism but has said that he considers himself a “white majoritarian.”
    Another figure inside the Capitol with ties to white nationalists was Tim Gionet, a livestreamer who uses the handle Baked Alaska and who participated in the Charlottesville rally, which left one woman dead. Gionet was photographed within the Capitol and apparently used DLive to stream from within the building as events unfolded. Part of his video appeared to show him in Nancy Pelosi’s office, according to the Southern Poverty Law Center, which tracks hate groups.

    Other extremist figures present either at the rally or within the Capitol included Vincent James Foxx, an online propagandist for the Rise Above Movement, a now-defunct Southern California white supremacist group.

    Also on scene: Gabe Brown, a New Englander who helped create Anticom, a now-defunct organization devoted to physically combating leftists. In 2017, Anticom members posted a vast trove of bomb-making manuals to a private online chatroom.
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  6. #21576
    Extraordinary Member Robotman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kirby101 View Post
    It wasn't just the butterfly ballot, it was the punch ballots.
    It was clear that the Florida voters wanted Gore.


    Bush lost the popular vote, and should have lost Florida and the Presidency. The Democrats had every right to be upset and try to challenge, yet Mets wants to "BOTH SIDES" this and compare 2000 to what Trump and the GOP is doing this year.

    No one is buying it.
    There was also the issue of the seemingly intentionally confusing ballots in areas populated by large numbers of senior citizens. Pat Buchanan got a ridiculous number of votes in Palm Beach County. A county with a high number of Jewish senior citizens. Obviously someone like Pat Buchanan was not popular with the Jewish community. Even his campaign manager and eventually Buchanan himself admitted that things were not right.

    “We do not believe they are all ours,” said Bay Buchanan (campaign manager). “We think there was clear confusion and we understand the confusion since we’ve looked at the ballot ourselves.”

    “That is ridiculous. The vote there basically represents 20% of the votes we got in the entire state and it’s not our natural base,” she said. “We only got 5% of our state vote there in the 1996 Republican primary.”


    Quote Originally Posted by Revolutionary_Jack View Post
    There was this tweet by Alex Kaplan:
    https://twitter.com/AlKapDC/status/1347713838133731334

    In the past 48 hours:
    -Twitter banned QAnon accounts
    -Twitter banned Trump
    -Reddit banned r/donaldtrump
    -Reddit banned the head moderator of r/conspiracy
    -YouTube banned Steve Bannon's show
    -Discord banned TheDonald dot win's channel
    -Google banned Parler from its app store

    And now FORBES magazine has officially sanctioned a papal bull on any corporation or business that hires Trump Press Secretaries:
    I've always said that nothing in this country will change as long as the far right has Fox News and countless social media outlets to spew their propaganda and disinformation 24/7. This is rather significant.

  7. #21577
    Ultimate Member Mister Mets's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by babyblob View Post
    Mets it is not okay when they contest an election and add to the lies that lead to a coup. You said that Howley and Cruz had no way of knowing what was going to happen. No one did you say. Shit the only ones who seemed to think there would be no trouble was the Capital Hill Police and National guard which they will answer for. media was talking about the possibility of trouble, not on that scale sure but they talked about possible riots.

    If they wanted to start a conversation about the election and ask questions fine. Never mind the fact that this has been done for a couple months in both the media and courts. But you do not do it when a mob is down the street. You damn sure dont do it a half hour after they scrubbed blood off the floors and were stepping on broken glass.

    Trump has been saying for over a week that they were going to take back the government on the 6th. His supporters have been posting on Twitter and Facebook and other places they were going to take back the government, stop the count, storm the capital, load up on guns and ammo, the revolution begins on the 6th, I hope Pelosi catches one, etc.. How can two people one who is smart enough to get a book deal, the other who has rising to the rank of Senator, not be smart enough to see what was going to happen? How could they not see the damage they were doing? I dont like either man but they are not stupid people. They fact is they did know, they just did not care. In fact Howley cared so little that people were storming the capital and in the process of murdering a cop that he was fund raising. How do you excuse this?
    I think you're describing some opinions that I didn't express.

    If your argument is that Cruz and Hawley should have seen what was going to happen, who did? We can't expect them to be more prescient than everyone else. So, who did what you suggest is the bare minimum?

    The fundraising email was an automated message, so we can't blame Hawley for writing it as a cop was dying.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kirby101 View Post
    It wasn't just the butterfly ballot, it was the punch ballots.
    It was clear that the Florida voters wanted Gore.


    Bush lost the popular vote, and should have lost Florida and the Presidency. The Democrats had every right to be upset and try to challenge, yet Mets wants to "BOTH SIDES" this and compare 2000 to what Trump and the GOP is doing this year.

    No one is buying it.
    The point I was addressing was about whether Hawley and Cruz should be convicted or removed from the Senate. So it's not just comparing 2000 and 2020.

    As I've noted before, some Democratic members of Congress didn't just object to the 2000 presidential election. They also objected to the 2004 and 2016 presidential elections.

    What does the popular vote have to do with this discussion? It's not a legal standard.

    Your Guardian link refers to studies that I'm not able to find. The results are contradicted by later studies commissioned by the Washington Post and other media outlets.

    From the November 2001 article...

    The study showed that if the two limited recounts had not been short-circuited -- the first by Florida county and state election officials and the second by the U.S. Supreme Court -- Bush would have held his lead over Gore, with margins ranging from 225 to 493 votes, depending on the standard.
    For 36 days after the election, the results in Florida remained in doubt, and so did the winner of the presidency. Bush emerged victorious when the U.S. Supreme Court, in a 5 to 4 ruling, agreed with his lawyers' contention that the counting should end. Since then, many Gore partisans have accused the court of unfairly aborting a process that would have put their candidate ahead.

    But an examination of the disputed ballots suggests that in hindsight the battalions of lawyers and election experts who descended on Florida pursued strategies that ended up working against the interests of their candidates.

    The study indicates, for example, that Bush had less to fear from the recounts underway than he thought. Under any standard used to judge the ballots in the four counties where Gore lawyers had sought a recount -- Palm Beach, Broward, Miami-Dade and Volusia -- Bush still ended up with more votes than Gore, according to the study. Bush also would have had more votes if the limited statewide recount ordered by the Florida Supreme Court and then stopped by the U.S. Supreme Court had been carried through.

    Had Bush not been party to short-circuiting those recounts, he might have escaped criticism that his victory hinged on legal maneuvering rather than on counting the votes.
    There was no legal standard by which overvotes (ballots in which someone voted for more than one candidate for an office) counted, so that it wasn't going to be considered for Gore.

    Quote Originally Posted by Robotman View Post
    There was also the issue of the seemingly intentionally confusing ballots in areas populated by large numbers of senior citizens. Pat Buchanan got a ridiculous number of votes in Palm Beach County. A county with a high number of Jewish senior citizens. Obviously someone like Pat Buchanan was not popular with the Jewish community. Even his campaign manager and eventually Buchanan himself admitted that things were not right.

    “We do not believe they are all ours,” said Bay Buchanan (campaign manager). “We think there was clear confusion and we understand the confusion since we’ve looked at the ballot ourselves.”

    “That is ridiculous. The vote there basically represents 20% of the votes we got in the entire state and it’s not our natural base,” she said. “We only got 5% of our state vote there in the 1996 Republican primary.”




    I've always said that nothing in this country will change as long as the far right has Fox News and countless social media outlets to spew their propaganda and disinformation 24/7. This is rather significant.
    The confusing ballots were made by Democratic officials, so it's not something to blame Republicans for.

    https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/story?id=122175&page=1

    But what should the courts have done about ballots for one candidate than were probably meant to indicate support for another? It was a vote for Buchanan.
    Last edited by Mister Mets; 01-09-2021 at 12:29 PM.
    Sincerely,
    Thomas Mets

  8. #21578
    Extraordinary Member Revolutionary_Jack's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mister Mets View Post
    I'm not sure if Trump or Rudy should go to jail for this.
    Jameson laugh.jpg

    If Trump is to be jailed because protesters ...
    They are terrorists, not protestors.

    The law should not make a distinction between what is acceptable rhetoric or behavior because of what side protesters are on.
    Making distinctions is indeed what law is about.

    As I said before, you are not a lawyer or a judge. You are a citizen, and you should voice your opinion as a citizen rather than discourse on that which you clearly do not know.

    In Congress I am represented by Chuck Schumer, Kirsten Gilibrand and Grace Meng.
    Well per Electoral College rules, your vote doesn't in fact count.

    Since you are a red voter in a heavily blue district and as a Republican want to prolong and maintain the Electoral College, then by the ideology that you yourself proclaim, you must accept that you have no say. You must keep quiet and bow down to the will of the majority in your district and the stated position of the representatives of your district, and let the business of government as defined by your representatives proceed without your input.

    Should you wish to reform that set of circumstances, i.e. shift from EC to direct popular vote, I suggest you voice that. After all, the entire issue with Gore in 2000 and HRC in 2016 was that both candidates lost the popular vote but won the EC, which was unprecedented for any candidate of any party for more than a century, breaking the political and social norms of the nation. Had Biden lost the pop. vote in 2020 but won the EC, then and only then would your false analogy be comparable

    While we're citizens, we should still consider the legal and political implications of what we're asking for.
    Asking for justice and accountability is within the legal and political implications. Asking the officers of Congress to follow the constitutional procedures and maintain political norms to highlight and insulate the government from another breach of election norms is within the legal and political implications. You make it sound as if we are calling for summary executions or Revolutionary Tribunals. We are not doing any such thing.

    Is accountability so foreign to you or unacceptable to you? Has hyperbole so twisted and tangled the conservative ideology that you cannot see people you disagree in the moderate light they appear?

    If you point out that I'm not a member of Trump's defense, you should also point out to Trump's critics that they are not members of the prosecution.
    As citizens, we are calling for Impeachment and Removal. As a citizen, we can ask our congressmen for that. Stuff about conviction or putting Trump in jail and so on...the actual legal stuff is separate from that.
    Last edited by Revolutionary_Jack; 01-09-2021 at 12:30 PM.

  9. #21579
    Astonishing Member babyblob's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mister Mets View Post
    I think you're describing some opinions that I didn't express.

    If your argument is that Cruz and Hawley should have seen what was going to happen, who did? We can't expect them to be more prescient than everyone else. So, who did what you suggest is the bare minimum?
    Who knew? Anyone who has been listen to Trump and his supporters talk about the rally on social media the last week and a half. I am not asking them to be all knowing I am asking them to show the same common sense any one else did when these terrorists (Not protestors like you called them) were posting on social media the days prior to this event. And I am including the police and guard on the dumbass how did you not see this coming wagon not just those two. but I am damn sure it will come out that they were purposely understaffed and held back that day.

    As for dangerous rhetoric. it should not be allowed in any party. But it is no longer rhetoric when you tell people to take the government back by trial by combat and to march on the capital after telling people for weeks that you were going to take back the government. That is no longer rhetoric it is a set of marching orders.
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  10. #21580
    Extraordinary Member PaulBullion's Avatar
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    Nobody could have known that people who said on social media that they would march on the Capitol would actually march on the Capitol.
    "How does the Green Goblin have anything to do with Herpes?" - The Dying Detective

    Hillary was right!

  11. #21581
    Extraordinary Member Revolutionary_Jack's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PaulBullion View Post
    Nobody could have known that people who said on social media that they would march on the Capitol would actually march on the Capitol.
    The Leopard Eating People's Faces Party are shocked, SHOCKED, at the fact that the Leopard ate the faces of people.

  12. #21582
    Astonishing Member babyblob's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PaulBullion View Post
    Nobody could have known that people who said on social media that they would march on the Capitol would actually march on the Capitol.
    No one did. At least no one without a time machine. Even Trump and Rudy were shocked I bet. Did you see the shocked look on the faces of these terrorists as they destroyed the place and ran wild. The look on there face was not joy. it was confusion as if saying how did we get here?
    Favorite teams. Alpha Flight, Avengers, Fantastic Four, West Coast Avengers, Justice Society of America, Legion of Superheroes.

  13. #21583
    Extraordinary Member Robotman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PaulBullion View Post
    Nobody could have known that people who said on social media that they would march on the Capitol would actually march on the Capitol.
    Yeah no one could have known or prepared.

    tweet.jpg

  14. #21584
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  15. #21585
    Spectacular Member MacrossPlus's Avatar
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    They really forgot all about the Stringer Bell rule didn’t they?

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