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  1. #5341
    Invincible Jersey Girl Tami's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rosa Luxemburg View Post
    Any sort of unity between the Democratic party and Republicans only opens up the Democrats to becoming even more like the Republicans.
    Or Republicans becoming more like the Democrats. Glass half empty, glass half full, be thankful to have a glass to argue over.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tami View Post
    Or Republicans becoming more like the Democrats. Glass half empty, glass half full, be thankful to have a glass to argue over.
    They aren't becoming more like the Democrats if they still call themselves Republicans.

  3. #5343
    Incredible Member The no face guy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PwrdOn View Post
    The Philippines is actually a great example of American foreign policy at work, being a former US colony they actually have a much greater imprint of Western culture and government than any of the other countries you named. For example, English proficiency among Filipinos is hands down the best outside of the Anglosphere itself, whereas "Westernized" Japan and Korea rank near the bottom in that regard. Ever since independence, the country has remained quite a loyal ally of the US with the population still overwhelmingly pro-American in outlook despite some bad blood from the colonial period. And in return for this, they have gotten what exactly? Americans hardly pay attention to them at all unless we need them as a stick to poke China with, and there has been little interest in serious development projects, and they are largely regarded as a basket case with no hope of ever joining the ranks of the wealthy nations. This is the one and only reason why Duterte pivoted toward China, he believed that trying to play both sides against each other would help him gain a bit more leverage in terms of securing investment and territorial concessions, though that hasn't really been successful.
    Duterte like many populists and autocrats came to power largely because of the economic shockwave that was caused by the great recession, and he has been sliding the country towards autocracy ever since. Yes he's been playing both sides off against each other, but it should be noted that he's rejected aid packages from the West on several occasions, because they try to enforce human rights concerns in return. No such strings are attached from autocratic countries.

    As for the greatest imprint of the West in the far East, it doesn’t matter who implemented it first, what matters if there is a system of western democracy that provides wealth and freedom. If you want to play that game though, than you may want to look at Japan whose constitution was written by the United States and overseen by General MacArthur, or allow the people of Hong Kong to vote if they want to go back to being a British colony, it's not hard to predict what would happen.

  4. #5344
    Astonishing Member PwrdOn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The no face guy View Post
    Duterte like many populists and autocrats came to power largely because of the economic shockwave that was caused by the great recession, and he has been sliding the country towards autocracy ever since. Yes he's been playing both sides off against each other, but it should be noted that he's rejected aid packages from the West on several occasions, because they try to enforce human rights concerns in return. No such strings are attached from autocratic countries.

    As for the greatest imprint of the West in the far East, it doesn’t matter who implemented it first, what matters if there is a system of western democracy that provides wealth and freedom. If you want to play that game though, than you may want to look at Japan whose constitution was written by the United States and overseen by General MacArthur, or allow the people of Hong Kong to vote if they want to go back to being a British colony, it's not hard to predict what would happen.
    Imagine if every country who was negotiating a trade deal with the US demanded that we abolish our racist police departments first, you think any president would accept a deal like that? Western democracy provides wealth and freedom for a small minority of countries by exploiting the resources and labor of everyone else on the planet. The fact that a handful of countries in Asia have managed to join the ranks of the exploiters doesn't really stack up when you compare that to the utter failure of democratic experiments in South Asia, the Middle East, Latin America, Africa, and even parts of Europe. How did spreading democracy in Iraq, Libya, and Syria work out? What about Bolivia after the coup that ousted the "dictator" Morales? Some of the worst autocrats like Duterte, Modi, and Bolsonaro all won elections fair and square. And the fact that some Hong Kong people see themselves as British rather than Chinese is hardly a point in favor of imperialism, it just means that the British were particularly good at using identity politics to divide and conquer, just like they did in India, Ireland, Palestine, and everywhere else they ruled. Don't you think that if just letting people vote and opening up your markets to trade actually worked the way that the West claims it does, that more countries would have just done that by now? Why bother with all these fringe political movements and ideologies if you can just copy what works for America and get the same results?
    Last edited by PwrdOn; 07-01-2020 at 05:06 PM.

  5. #5345
    Mighty Member Mecegirl's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rosa Luxemburg View Post
    Any sort of unity between the Democratic party and Republicans only opens up the Democrats to becoming even more like the Republicans.
    Considering the recent growth of the left side of the Democratic party I wouldn't worry that much. Any one giving into right leaning demands would get primaried.

  6. #5346
    Latverian ambassador Iron Maiden's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rosa Luxemburg View Post
    Any sort of unity between the Democratic party and Republicans only opens up the Democrats to becoming even more like the Republicans.
    Since when is unity a bad thing? I'm old enough to recall there were times when it actually happened. A GOP President was in office when the EPA was created, the draft ended and the voting age was lowered to 18. Yeah, that was Nixon. At least the jerk was good for something.

  7. #5347
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    Quote Originally Posted by Iron Maiden View Post
    Since when is unity a bad thing?
    Since the Republicans became ideologically opposed to the continued existence of life on Earth.

  8. #5348
    Horrific Experiment JCAll's Avatar
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    The GOP only ever cedes power when they need someone to clean up their messes. They know they shit the bed quicker than usual this time.

  9. #5349
    Incredible Member The no face guy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PwrdOn View Post
    Imagine if every country who was negotiating a trade deal with the US demanded that we abolish our racist police departments first, you think any president would accept a deal like that? Western democracy provides wealth and freedom for a small minority of countries by exploiting the resources and labor of everyone else on the planet. The fact that a handful of countries in Asia have managed to join the ranks of the exploiters doesn't really stack up when you compare that to the utter failure of democratic experiments in South Asia, the Middle East, Latin America, Africa, and even parts of Europe. How did spreading democracy in Iraq, Libya, and Syria work out? What about Bolivia after the coup that ousted the "dictator" Morales? Some of the worst autocrats like Duterte, Modi, and Bolsonaro all won elections fair and square. And the fact that some Hong Kong people see themselves as British rather than Chinese is hardly a point in favor of imperialism, it just means that the British were particularly good at using identity politics to divide and conquer, just like they did in India, Ireland, Palestine, and everywhere else they ruled. Don't you think that if just letting people vote and opening up your markets to trade actually worked the way that the West claims it does, that more countries would have just done that by now? Why bother with all these fringe political movements and ideologies if you can just copy what works for America and get the same results?
    Hi PwrdOn I think it's about time you PwrdOff.

    There is no point debating you, because your such an ideologue that you just hunker down even deeper into your beliefs that the west is evil incarnate, I wasn't even going to respond to your interjection, but you made a rather crass racial statement that I was not going to let slide. This has become so far removed from the person I was originally responding to, so I will leave you with this....

    Ask the people of Japan if they would rather adopt China's Marxist government or keep their western democracy....see how that works for you.

    Ask the people of South Korea if they would rather leave their country to live in North Korea...see how that works for you.

    Ask the people of Singapore and Malaysia if they would rather adopt the government of Laos...see how that works for you.

    but more importantly, ask the people of Hong Kong if they would rather remain under Chinese rule or be placed in the hands of Taiwan or the British, because sadly it's lights out for democracy in Hong Kong...something I know you will cheer.

  10. #5350
    Ultimate Member Mister Mets's Avatar
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    Over a third of the Toledo City Council has just been arrested on bribery charges.

    Four members of the Toledo City Council have been accused of accepting bribes while in office, according to court documents obtained by 13abc on Tuesday.

    At least three of those council members have been placed into federal custody. 13abc crews were on the scene as council members Larry Sykes and Yvonne Harper were placed into custody. Federal documents also implicate council members Gary Johnson and Tyrone Riley.

    According to a criminal complaint filed with the U.S. District Court, Councilman Sykes faces complaints of "Reciept of Bribe by Agent of Organization Receiving Federal Funds" and "Hobbs Act Extortion Under Color of Official Right." In the affidavit filed along with the complaint, council members Harper, Riley, and Jonson are also named as subjects.

    According to the affidavit, in early 2018, the FBI began an investigation into members of Toledo City Council, suspecting members of accepting or soliciting bribes in exchange for votes.

    The documents reveal an unnamed source who owns several commercial properties, primarily gas stations and convenience stores in Toledo, pointed the finger at councilman Tyrone Riley.

    The alleged pay for votes scheme then unraveled over the next two years and according to the feds involved Yvonne Harper, Larry Sykes, and Gary Johnson.

    The court documents detail how each of the council members allegedly accepted payments in the range of five hundred to five thousand dollars for 'yes' votes on zoning requests to internet cafes.

    Additionally, Councilwoman Harper is accused of using a local attorney, Keith Mitchell, to solicit and accept bribe payments on her behalf.

    Council members are not banned from engaging in city business, but are prohibited from private communications with those involved in this case.

    If convicted the council members could face 10 years for bribery and 20 years for extortion along with 250-thousand dollars in fines.

    "These allegations reveal greed, sure and simple. They also reveal a violation of public trust."

    In a statement released on Tuesday, Toledo mayor Wade Kapszukiewicz said he was "shocked and heartbroken" by the arrests, calling it a "terrible day for Toledo — and for everyone who believes in the good that can be accomplished through public service"
    Sincerely,
    Thomas Mets

  11. #5351
    Ol' Doogie, Circa 2005 JDogindy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tami View Post
    Or Republicans becoming more like the Democrats. Glass half empty, glass half full, be thankful to have a glass to argue over.
    God, I miss when people actually did engage in talks instead of aiming for each other's throats. We managed to get stuff done!

    Now, if you want to be considered "moderate", you're viewed as wishy-washy or rooting for the other team. Granted, there are still people on both the Democratic and Republican parties that absolutely don't belong (Collin Peterson is the most obvious Republican in Democrat's Clothing, while Ruben Diaz Jr., well-known for New Yorkers, is only becoming more known for national audiences for the exact same reasons), but the idea of extreme partisanship makes it difficult to feel like anything can be productive.

  12. #5352
    Ol' Doogie, Circa 2005 JDogindy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Iron Maiden View Post
    We can't be choosey these days darlin'. This is why Democrats could lose to the worst POTUS ever.....stupid purity tests. Trump has a huge war chest and Biden has some catching up to do since he wasn't able to campaign like Trump was doing. Because that was all those nightly pandemic updates were all about. He got his mug on TV every night.
    Problem is, she's clearly a leftist that firmly believes all Democrats are centrist at best and conservative at worst. I've seen this. Leftism goes beyond liberalism to where even the most left-wing members of the Democratic Party aren't good enough; no, you want Green and Socialist Party people elected.

    Unfortunately, I've taken several political evaluation tests, and I'm clearly on that leftist/liberal fringe, but even I know those parties are nothing but pitiful, do-good losers. If you want results, you're gonna have to stick to the Democratic Party. You can't just be that ideologically pure and keep arguing that, and I have seen this from people on YouTube like PhilosophyTube, Biden will be worse than Trump; we have seen Trump's America, and not the warped, fantasy version Dinesh D'Souza is going to make in a few years to defend the asshole.

    And, yes, I know I voted for Johnson in 2016. I won't make that mistake again.
    Last edited by JDogindy; 07-01-2020 at 08:47 PM.

  13. #5353
    Ol' Doogie, Circa 2005 JDogindy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PwrdOn View Post
    If the worst thing you can accuse Asian people of doing is buying up property then I don't think anyone would mind that stereotyping, not to mention that, last I checked, being a capitalist country and those properties don't belong to a collective "us" anyway. And I do love how you admit that racism is the greatest problem that humanity faces, but then on the other hand claim that superior Western culture is solely responsible for all of the successes of Asian countries. Though I would like you to further enlighten me about how Japan and Korea welcomed American soldiers into their countries peacefully and voluntarily, and how our relationship with these countries is totally based in mutual respect and trust.
    Well, you pretty much pissed him off by highlighting the fact those cultures live their own way, and we're not allowed to just barge right in and do what we want. I've communicated with several Japanese people in the past, and culturally, you can't just be American to them; it doesn't work that way.

    But, since you went and pushed his buttons, have a Coke on me.

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  14. #5354
    Invincible Jersey Girl Tami's Avatar
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    Alabama students throwing 'COVID parties' to see who gets infected: Officials

    Students in Tuscaloosa, Alabama, who have been diagnosed with COVID-19 have been attending parties in the city and surrounding area as part of a disturbing contest to see who can catch the virus first, a city council member told ABC News on Wednesday.

    Tuscaloosa City Councilor Sonya McKinstry said students have been organizing "COVID parties" as a game to intentionally infect each other with the contagion that has killed more than 127,000 people in the United States. She said she recently learned of the behavior and informed the city council of the parties occurring in the city.

    She said the organizers of the parties are purposely inviting guests who have COVID-19.

    "They put money in a pot and they try to get COVID. Whoever gets COVID first gets the pot. It makes no sense," McKinstry said. "They're intentionally doing it."

    Tuscaloosa Fire Chief Randy Smith told the City Council on Tuesday that he has confirmed the students' careless behavior.
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  15. #5355
    Ol' Doogie, Circa 2005 JDogindy's Avatar
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    Here in Indiana, we're waiting until August before tempting fate, what with the Indy 500 (still blacked out, so you gotta come to see it live, unfortunately!) and something called the "Fairgrounds Fun Fest" that replaced the Indiana State Fair.

    In the South, they're not even trying to stop it with the sickness.

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