All purpose news and politics thread part VI: This Is Not The Time For Posing

[Tami]

Suddenly, the Chinese Threat to Australia Seems Very Real - Aug. 31, 2020

CANBERRA, Australia — A Chinese defector to Australia who detailed political interference by Beijing. A businessman found dead after telling the authorities about a Chinese plot to install him in Parliament. Suspicious men following critics of Beijing in major Australian cities.

For a country that just wants calm commerce with China — the propellant behind 28 years of steady growth — the revelations of the past week have delivered a jolt.

Fears of Chinese interference once seemed to hover indistinctly over Australia. Now, Beijing’s political ambitions, and the espionage operations that further them, suddenly feel local, concrete and ever-present.

“It’s become the inescapable issue,” said Hugh White, a former intelligence official who teaches strategic studies at the Australian National University. “We’ve underestimated how quickly China’s power has grown along with its ambition to use that power.”

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'If you make China the enemy, China will be the enemy': Beijing's fresh threat to Australia - November 18, 2020

Beijing has issued an extraordinary attack on the Australian government, accusing it of "poisoning bilateral relations" in a deliberately leaked document that threatens to escalate tensions between the two countries.

The government document goes further than any public statements made by the Chinese Communist Party, accusing the Morrison government of attempting "to torpedo" Victoria's Belt and Road deal, and blaming Canberra for "unfriendly or antagonistic" reports on China by independent Australian media.

The dossier of 14 disputes was handed over by the Chinese embassy in Canberra to Nine News, The Sydney Morning Herald and The Age in a diplomatic play that appears aimed at pressuring the Morrison government to reverse Australia's position on key policies.

The list of grievances also includes: government funding for "anti-China" research at the Australian Strategic Policy Institute, raids on Chinese journalists and academic visa cancellations, "spearheading a crusade" in multilateral forums on China's affairs in Taiwan, Hong Kong and Xinjiang, calling for an independent investigation into the origins of COVID-19, banning Huawei from the 5G network in 2018 and blocking 10 Chinese foreign investment deals across infrastructure, agriculture and animal husbandry sectors.

Prime Minister Scott Morrison on Wednesday said China should not be threatened by the signing of a landmark defence treaty between Australia and Japan, which paves the way for the two nations to conduct more joint military exercises throughout the Indo-Pacific.

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China Discovers the Limits of Its Power - July 28, 2021

China is now the great power of Asia—or so Beijing believes—but those pesky Australians, mouthing off about human rights and coronavirus investigations, refuse to bend the knee. Beijing has turned to economic pressure to compel Australia to fall in line. “Sometimes you have to find a stone to rub it off,” Hu wrote, of the gum and of Australia. But the Australians have proved impossible to shake, and have instead caused some embarrassment for their image-obsessed tormentor.

The ongoing dispute between Australia and China may seem merely a bilateral affair, fought out in a remote corner of the planet. But it matters around the world.

Australia is a crucial American ally in Asia, so China’s actions toward the country inevitably affect both Washington’s policy and its standing in the region. Australia is representative of many countries: a midsize nation whose economic relationship with Beijing is vital for growth and jobs but, simultaneously, whose politicians and citizens are becoming more concerned about China’s repressive tactics at home and aggression abroad.

[PwrdOn]

Suddenly, the Chinese Threat to Australia Seems Very Real - Aug. 31, 2020





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'If you make China the enemy, China will be the enemy': Beijing's fresh threat to Australia - November 18, 2020







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China Discovers the Limits of Its Power - July 28, 2021

So essentially, the enemy is both strong and weak at the same time. Probably not a cause for introspection or anything.

[Reviresco]

And why wasn't this guy screaming about "incredible damage" when Secretary of State Brian Kemp was running the Governor's election, while running as a candidate for Governor???

So much blatant hypocrisy.

There has been a history of Secretaries of State running for office. Before Kemp, Karen Handel lost a primary for Governor. Before Handel, Democrat Cathy Cox lost a primary for Governor. Before Cox, Democrat Lewis Massey lost a gubernatorial primary. Before Massey, Democrat Max Cleland was elected to the US Senate, trusted enough to be made Secretary of the American Battle Monuments Commission in the Obama administration.

In those cases, the decision was left up to the voters.

There is also an element of hypocrisy in that the same people outraged that a Secretary of State would run for Governor now support a standard politician (former city council President/ candidate for mayor) who is working for a presumptive gubernatorial nominee to be the new leader of an elections committee.

Those were primaries -- purging your own party voters isn't a recipe for success. Second, the key point I made, was Kemp ran for governor WHILE he was secretary of state and in charge of his own election. He didn't resign, like most of those people you named, BEFORE he ran.

There's nothing wrong with a Secretary of State running for Governor, as long as they recuse themselves from any position of authority in the overseeing of that election. Otherwise, it's a huge conflict of interest.

Exactly. Though he should've resigned, IMO, to avoid any semblance of manipulating the voting. But given his shenanigans during the campaign, he clearly didn't care.

A legit question. How many in any state have done this?

Sorry, I don't know. I know about Georgia, because I live here.

[Totoro Man]

This whole submarine debacle just goes to show that, as far as the military industrial complex is concerned, war is just a silly game and the REAL battle is scheming and backstabbing your allies to make sure that the dough keeps rolling in. If poor widdle Australia was really under such dire threat from Chinese expansionism, then you would think that the "free world" would have no problem making sure they had what they needed to defend themselves, and sort out who owes who what later. Of course, if Australia was in any kind of real danger they probably wouldn't have the luxury to set off a public spat between their supposed allies all over some submarines that won't even be completed for another 25 years. It goes without saying that all of this noise about an imminent Chinese takeover is just white colonists' existential fear that somebody will do to them what they did to the aboriginals, which has manifested through the years with such wonderful ideas such as the "White Australia policy" and the "offshore processing" of prospective migrants, which amounts to basically dumping refugees onto some poor island nation that has far fewer resources to care for them than Australia does.

if your buddy in another state offers you a shotgun to defend your house, and another friend from a nearby city offers you a pistol... wouldn't it make sense, if you felt urgently in danger, to make the shorter trip and get the pistol?

while I know that you always love to dismiss concerns about Chinese expansionism... China does have a pretty good track record of invading and conquering people. they invaded Tibet in 1950. they have had numerous armed border skirmishes with India (most of which were started by China). don't forget that China invaded VIETNAM in 1978! (yes, the same people that they helped to win a civil war by fighting the forces of evil capitalist/colonial tyranny)

that's just the 20th Century. if you go back thousands of years... I don't believe you can ignore the conquering aspects of their history. is it worse than what we saw in Europe? probably not... but, if we're going to argue that colonial and territorial ambitions are bad... why limit ourselves to just white people being evil?

maybe Australia doesn't want to end up like Poland in 1939... where Poland ordered weapons from France in the years leading up to WW2. France agreed to sell them weapons, even though they had trouble meeting their own goals and deadlines. French orders were being derailed by frequent labor strikes, lots of vacation time, union negotiations, a low national birth rate, conflicting economic demands, a global recession, and a host of other problems. in the end, Nazi Germany invaded Poland before France had delivered on even a fraction of the technology and weapons that Poland hoped to receive from them... in spite of being in an official alliance of mutual protection.

the submarine "debacle" is probably the smartest move Australia can make.

[PwrdOn]

if your buddy in another state offers you a shotgun to defend your house, and another friend from a nearby city offers you a pistol... wouldn't it make sense, if you felt urgently in danger, to make the shorter trip and get the pistol?

while I know that you always love to dismiss concerns about Chinese expansionism... China does have a pretty good track record of invading and conquering people. they invaded Tibet in 1950. they have had numerous armed border skirmishes with India (most of which were started by China). don't forget that China invaded VIETNAM in 1978! (yes, the same people that they helped to win a civil war by fighting the forces of evil capitalist/colonial tyranny)

that's just the 20th Century. if you go back thousands of years... I don't believe you can ignore the conquering aspects of their history. is it worse than what we saw in Europe? probably not... but, if we're going to argue that colonial and territorial ambitions are bad... why limit ourselves to just white people being evil?

maybe Australia doesn't want to end up like Poland in 1939... where Poland ordered weapons from France in the years leading up to WW2. France agreed to sell them weapons, even though they had trouble meeting their own goals and deadlines. French orders were being derailed by frequent labor strikes, lots of vacation time, union negotiations, a low national birth rate, conflicting economic demands, a global recession, and a host of other problems. in the end, Nazi Germany invaded Poland before France had delivered on even a fraction of the technology and weapons that Poland hoped to receive from them... in spite of being in an official alliance of mutual protection.

the submarine "debacle" is probably the smartest move Australia can make.

So the long history of Chinese expansionism consists of annexing Tibet, a couple of skirmishes with India (in which they didn't take any territory) and a war with Vietnam (in which they also didn't take any territory). China basically has the same borders now that it has had since the 1750s, and is actually somewhat smaller now due to the loss of Outer Mongolia and some other marginal territories. By contrast, by 1750 only a handful of Europeans had even visited what was to become Australia, and indeed that term wasn't even coined until much later. But sure, the fact that China said some mean things to Australia and stopped buying their wine makes this the EXACT same as Poland in 1939.

[Tami]

So the long history of Chinese expansionism consists of annexing Tibet, a couple of skirmishes with India (in which they didn't take any territory) and a war with Vietnam (in which they also didn't take any territory). China basically has the same borders now that it has had since the 1750s, and is actually somewhat smaller now due to the loss of Outer Mongolia and some other marginal territories. By contrast, by 1750 only a handful of Europeans had even visited what was to become Australia, and indeed that term wasn't even coined until much later. But sure, the fact that China said some mean things to Australia and stopped buying their wine makes this the EXACT same as Poland in 1939.

China’s expansionism enters dangerous phase - Aug 25, 2020

Chinese Expansion in Central Asia: Problems and Perspectives - July 14, 2016

How China Used the Pandemic for its Expansionist Pursuits - 13. September 2020

Could this map of China start a war? - June 27, 2014

China's Maritime Disputes

It's more complicated than a few skirmishes.

[PwrdOn]

China’s expansionism enters dangerous phase - Aug 25, 2020

Chinese Expansion in Central Asia: Problems and Perspectives - July 14, 2016

How China Used the Pandemic for its Expansionist Pursuits - 13. September 2020

Could this map of China start a war? - June 27, 2014

China's Maritime Disputes

It's more complicated than a few skirmishes.

Except that for all the talk about the South China Sea being some massive geopolitical fault line, the vast majority of Westerners have no understanding of the issue beyond some vague sense that China is bad, and the minute you start explaining the details to them they just lose interest. But it's pretty obvious when you look at a map what the real issue is - if the South China Sea were to fall into the hands of an American client state like the Philippines, then the US Navy would have free rein to do whatever it wants there while Chinese ships would effectively be blocked from sailing into the Pacific, and so China has been asserting its claim there to prevent that from happening. Whatever you think of the validity of that claim, there has been NO suggestion, even in the articles that you linked, that China intends to use these islands as a staging ground to launch wars of aggression against neighboring countries or to impose harm on any actual people.

And I mean, the ridiculous claims about Chinese expansion don't end there, because now apparently it is "colonization" when China builds railroads and ports overseas, because how dare they do that without our permission, or that China is "colonizing" Hollywood by forcing them to alter the content slightly before they can be screened there. Hell, maybe China has now "colonized" CBR because I'm here spreading insidious CCP propaganda, so if you're reading this Chairman Xi, please PM me so I can tell you where to send the checks.

[Malvolio]

Except that for all the talk about the South China Sea being some massive geopolitical fault line, the vast majority of Westerners have no understanding of the issue beyond some vague sense that China is bad, and the minute you start explaining the details to them they just lose interest. But it's pretty obvious when you look at a map what the real issue is - if the South China Sea were to fall into the hands of an American client state like the Philippines, then the US Navy would have free rein to do whatever it wants there while Chinese ships would effectively be blocked from sailing into the Pacific, and so China has been asserting its claim there to prevent that from happening. Whatever you think of the validity of that claim, there has been NO suggestion, even in the articles that you linked, that China intends to use these islands as a staging ground to launch wars of aggression against neighboring countries or to impose harm on any actual people.

And I mean, the ridiculous claims about Chinese expansion don't end there, because now apparently it is "colonization" when China builds railroads and ports overseas, because how dare they do that without our permission, or that China is "colonizing" Hollywood by forcing them to alter the content slightly before they can be screened there. Hell, maybe China has now "colonized" CBR because I'm here spreading insidious CCP propaganda, so if you're reading this Chairman Xi, please PM me so I can tell you where to send the checks.

Excuse me, "alter content slightly?" I'd call removing any references to homosexuality a wee bit more than "slightly."

[The Cool Thatguy]

Excuse me, "alter content slightly?" I'd call removing any references to homosexuality a wee bit more than "slightly."

Yeah, but holding China to basic human standards is ethno-centric!

[The Cool Thatguy]

Except that for all the talk about the South China Sea being some massive geopolitical fault line, the vast majority of Westerners have no understanding of the issue beyond some vague sense that China is bad, and the minute you start explaining the details to them they just lose interest. But it's pretty obvious when you look at a map what the real issue is - if the South China Sea were to fall into the hands of an American client state like the Philippines, then the US Navy would have free rein to do whatever it wants there while Chinese ships would effectively be blocked from sailing into the Pacific, and so China has been asserting its claim there to prevent that from happening. Whatever you think of the validity of that claim, there has been NO suggestion, even in the articles that you linked, that China intends to use these islands as a staging ground to launch wars of aggression against neighboring countries or to impose harm on any actual people.

And I mean, the ridiculous claims about Chinese expansion don't end there, because now apparently it is "colonization" when China builds railroads and ports overseas, because how dare they do that without our permission, or that China is "colonizing" Hollywood by forcing them to alter the content slightly before they can be screened there. Hell, maybe China has now "colonized" CBR because I'm here spreading insidious CCP propaganda, so if you're reading this Chairman Xi, please PM me so I can tell you where to send the checks.

https://jalopnik.com/highway-to-nowh...ebt-1847204969

Totally not colonization!

[Kirby101]

I for one welcome our Chinese overlords.

[Tami]

I for one welcome our Chinese overlords.

Nearly everything in most American homes has a 'Made in China' tag on it.

[Kirby101]

Nearly everything in most American homes has a 'Made in China' tag on it.

Not my comics, they're from Canada!

[The Cool Thatguy]

Not my comics, they're from Canada!

Canada is real?

[PwrdOn]

I for one welcome our Chinese overlords.

Well if there's not going to be a war, I suppose your only option is to surrender at the first sign of trouble.

Nearly everything in most American homes has a 'Made in China' tag on it.

Should be more properly labeled "Made by Chinese workers for American companies who took home most of the profits from the sale." And as you know, performing basic services for meager pay is really what makes you the boss, that's why everybody who works in your building has to bow and scrape before the janitor and worship the ground he walks on, which coincidentally is the same ground he keeps spotless and sanitized.

Excuse me, "alter content slightly?" I'd call removing any references to homosexuality a wee bit more than "slightly."

Gay marriage has been legal in this country for six whole years, it'd be a bit rich for us to feign shock and horror that some other countries are taking a bit longer to come around on gay rights than others. Besides, the argument is that Chinese is "colonizing" Hollywood by forcing major changes to the films that show up in the international release, not just the version screened in China. The fact that censors are removing references to homosexuality is unfortunate, but hardly evidence of "imperialism" since has no effect on viewers outside of the country.

Yeah, but holding China to basic human standards is ethno-centric!

Standards that have been recognized as "basic" in the West for, what, maybe 10-15 years? Using human rights as cudgel to denigrate other cultures isn't nearly as clever as you think it is and goes all the way back to the times of Columbus, when the savagery of the natives was used to justify all sorts of cruel and inhumane treatment that wouldn't be fit for "civilized" people. And as seen more recently with the likes of the Taliban, this kind of superficial and insincere advocacy ALWAYS backfires on the people they're supposedly trying to help. If the US succeeds in its mission to contain and balkanize China, what, are we gonna make sure we rescue all the gay people first?