All purpose news and politics thread part VI: This Is Not The Time For Posing

[numberthirty]

As you inferring that people reconsider/learn differently/critically evaluate what they learned in school as they grow up?

Well, some do, and some don't. It's rare for it to happen in communities entrenched in a single idea and determined to never teach their children otherwise.

Bottom line, we can't always assume that the truth comes out eventually.

While I guess that what you mentioned is a part of it?

It's more that I tend to have my doubts about just how much education(versus home life/any give kid's social circle...) can really fundamentally turn a kid into something that they never would have been.

Take what seems to be a lot of the conservative angle on LGBT folks and how they should play into any child's education.

Let's say that we could magically create a world where their worst fears had been realized, and schools had carte blanche to try to "Teach..." kids to be gay.

Does anyone actually buy into that education alone would result in even most straight kids not eventually saying "Look, I know what you said I am, but I seriously believe that I am straight..."?

I think that, for the most part, kids are just going to wind up being their individual selves no matter how you attempt to used education to shape what they will wind up believing.

[WestPhillyPunisher]

Children should be taught ALL aspects of American history, including the ugly aspects about how people of color, women, Native Americans, gays and non-Christians were harshly treated and make up their minds about what sort of country we evolved from. Instead, butthurt white conservatives, right wingers, bible thumpers and Qpublicans want to whitewash (pardon the pun) said history to soothe their tender feelings regarding how their ancestors ruthlessly **** on anyone and everyone who wasn't white, male, rich and straight for centuries. Bottom line: ignoring history DOESN'T make it go away, no matter how hard you try.

[kidfresh512]

While I guess that what you mentioned is a part of it?

It's more that I tend to have my doubts about just how much education(versus home life/any give kid's social circle...) can really fundamentally turn a kid into something that they never would have been.

Take what seems to be a lot of the conservative angle on LGBT folks and how they should play into any child's education.

Let's say that we could magically create a world where their worst fears had been realized, and schools had carte blanche to try to "Teach..." kids to be gay.

Does anyone actually buy into that education alone would result in even most straight kids not eventually saying "Look, I know what you said I am, but I seriously believe that I am straight..."?

I think that, for the most part, kids are just going to wind up being their individual selves no matter how you attempt to used education to shape what they will wind up believing.

There is a reason that the GOP have grudges against higher education as "liberal bastions" that corrupt the youth. For many students it is the first time they are afforded freedom to expand their learning and interact with different cultures and ideas. They are exposed to more than some of their sheltered manicured a lot of times poorly educated school experience previously.

You start interacting with kids with backgrounds far different than yourself. You get expanded focused learning rather than perhaps a paragraph or 2 about subjects. Even personally I have worked with people that are extreme trumper GOP that lament about their kids being "liberal" in college etc.

Once you meet these people and learn that they arent some lazy, "other". They have hopes and dreams and stories too not what these kids may have heard growing up in a Fox News house back home with strictly conservative manicured textbooks etc maybe in a not so diverse suburb. Or a rural community school with firey church surmons on Sunday, Fox News etc all day at home and no minorities around really so all you see are BLM are terrorists trying to take over the country with ANTIFA.

Yes curriculum matters, you cant just stop trying to get better education at all aspects and all levels because, they will eventually "figure it out". Colleges get expensive and they arent for all.

[worstblogever]

While I guess that what you mentioned is a part of it?

It's more that I tend to have my doubts about just how much education(versus home life/any give kid's social circle...) can really fundamentally turn a kid into something that they never would have been.

Take what seems to be a lot of the conservative angle on LGBT folks and how they should play into any child's education.

Let's say that we could magically create a world where their worst fears had been realized, and schools had carte blanche to try to "Teach..." kids to be gay.

Does anyone actually buy into that education alone would result in even most straight kids not eventually saying "Look, I know what you said I am, but I seriously believe that I am straight..."?

I think that, for the most part, kids are just going to wind up being their individual selves no matter how you attempt to used education to shape what they will wind up believing.

I'dd add, the lesson isn't teaching kids to be gay, straight or any other orientation... it's to teach kids to accept other kids whether or not they're gay, straight, or whatever, and that heterosexuality might be the most prevailing of the sexualities, but it is not necessarily the "default" or "correct" one.

Like, that's the "controversy" conservatives can't handle, that anything outside of heterosexuality would be accepted.

Which is similar to the "controversy" over Critical Race Theory. They don't want any racial discussion from a point of view that isn't "whites only" at the moment.

Perspectives and representation are important. Even if the perspective involves terrible s*** your ancestors did, or things that you might be doing right now.

[worstblogever]

In 2014, 2015, 2016, 2017, 2018, 2019, as well as 2020, "Crazy/Stupid Republican of the Day" published profiles of David Barton, one of the co-authors of the 2012 and 2016 GOP Platforms, and a conservative historian/exposed fraud. That's right, an Evangelical Republican who teaches history from an alternative timeline that never existed was allowed to lead a group prayer at the 2012 Republican National Convention, and then go in and be one of the bigger influences upon writing the party platform. This, in spite of the fact that he wrote "The Jefferson Lies", a book that falsely claimed Thomas Jefferson intended America to be a Christian nation and was opposed to gay rights. for example. It was such a load of bunk that less than three months after it was released, his publisher had it yanked from bookstores around the country. But none of this has stopped the GOP Fundamentalists from continuing to disseminate whatever falsehoods Barton writes amongst their members, when they should have lanced him like a boil from their ranks before he did further damage to their reputation the past few years of, y'know, rejecting facts. The conservative media has folks like Glenn Beck and the Family Research Council still proudly welcome David Barton as a guest, not just swallowing the tripe he serves up, but lying on his behalf and claiming he has scholarly credentials he doesn't actually have. I mean, it might seem plausible to hear our Founding Fathers were opposed to the theory of evolution, because it was a radical concept when Charles Darwin presented it to folks... but the Founding Fathers were sort of dead by the time Darwin was writing about evolution. (If you believe Barton, though, the theory has been around since 500 B.C.)

We noted, though, that David Barton doesn't just present an alternate history of America... he's apparently living in an alternate reality of the present, where military chaplains are forced to perform gay marriages against their will, that gays are being allowed to "evangelize" to children in schools, that the Obergefell v. Hodges ruling also legalized pedophilia and would outlaw the Bible, that the average American household on welfare gets $61,000 a year (far, far less, actually), that the Bible forbids all government debt and says we will never be able to make an AIDS vaccine (missed that passage, myself), that President Obama aids the Muslim Brotherhood, that Ruth Bader Ginsberg can be impeached for falling asleep during the State of the Union Address (Gee, if Rep. Joe Wilson didn't get anything more than admonished for the crap he pulled...), that the concept of retirement from employment is a "Pagan Concept"... the nuclear treaty between the United States on Iran, claiming that it would force the United States to fight Israel, and bring about "God's Wrath". In February 2016 Barton went on Glenn Beck's show (again) to talk about Black History Month, and asks why whites don't get more recognition for their part in it, because "Blacks were not able to free themselves, whites did" or that “being a True Christian” is a surefire way to avoid getting AIDS, which you get if you “violate God’s standards of sexuality” (Tell that to Ryan White’s mother, you ***hole.), and that there are literally demons running parts of the American government.

Nothing is beyond this man’s notice to be manipulated for ideological purposes… in April 2016, after the release of Disney’s Zootopia, he suggested Disney movies feature anthropomorphized animal characters is an attempt to bring back pagan Gods, because"If you look back at the time of the Bible, a lot of the idols back then were actually animal. Dagon was the fish God…I love Disney, I’ve got all of the collections of Disney, but Disney’s the first one to make animals seem human, and that’s what animation does. Bambi seems human, 'Lady and the Tramp,' a nice romantic dinner for dogs over at an Italian restaurant—I don’t think so—'Beauty and the Beast.' And I love these stories but what they do is they elevate animals to mankind’s status... The Bible tells us that you are to be kind to your animals but you don't worship your animals, you don't make a Dagon god out of them and that's what we've now done."

In our 2017 review of Barton’s activities, we noted that he started claiming that the Founding Fathers put two clauses in the Declaration of Independence that condemned slavery (which is amazing considering all of the Southern delegates OWNED SLAVES), that during World War II, the United States warned Japan which cities we were going to drop atomic bombs on (which of course, is not actually what happened because that bomb was, y’know, TOP SECRET until it was dropped), that “Dixiecrat” Strom Thurmond switched parties because he “had a change of heart on race issues” (Thurmond was opposed to integration, and Democratic President Lyndon Johnson’s opposition to segregation was the reason Thurmond left the Democratic Party), and in April 2017, talked about visiting historical sites of the Holocaust, and how those same evils are manifesting today to assist the “homosexual lifestyle”, before claiming that the Nazis were also pagans (Hint: They were mostly Protestant, some Catholic). As if David Barton being a passionate Donald Trump supporter in spite of him boasting about sexual assault wasn’t enough to make him full of s*** on his supposed Christian morality, he yet again breaks the fifth Commandment to defend a sexual predator, falsely claiming that Bill O’Reilly was fired from Fox News for “complimenting a woman’s hair”, which really undersells the long, sordid history of reports from multiple accusers of O’Reilly making unwanted advances towards them, making grotesque sexual comments at them, and even calling some employees while apparently masturbating. Barton blames rising health care costs on homosexuals, complained in an interview with E.W. Jackson that “white people don’t get enough credit for ending slavery”, and whines that the separation of church and state doesn’t exempt anyone who goes to church from having to pay taxes. Oh, and in 2018, David Barton claimed he has seen nothing that would “indicate a lack of good morals” from anyone in the Trump administration. Y’know, other than the white nationalists who want to lock children in cages or all the people who resigned in disgrace for corruption.

Barton spent most of 2018 and 2019 continuing his revisionist history, homophobia, and of course, now that the electorate is turning away from right-wing Evangelical fascism, paranoid rants about voter fraud carried out by Democrats. Perhaps his worst moment of that stretch was in April of 2019 when he started spreading anti-vaccination conspiracy theories about there being pieces of aborted fetuses in vaccines. Still, he also referred to the Equality Act as “the greatest threat to religious liberty and free exercise of religion ever in American history”, completely misinterpreted the Madison v. Marbury Supreme Court ruling, and commended Donald Trump on his “biblical presidency”, and during his first impeachment, made the ludicrous claim that a president cannot be impeached for criminal behavior, which would ignore the literal part of the Constitution that discusses impeachment for high crimes.

[worstblogever]

What we're getting at is David Barton needs to be put in a goddamned rubber room and the worst part is his brand of insanity is contagious, as he actively promotes it as reality to Evangelicals in and around government. If you're still not convinced he's nuttier than a jar of Planters (How could you not be, at this point already?), we have another year of David Barton baying at the moon to present, and would like to thank the website Right Wing Watch for keeping a close eye on him. We’ll spare you all his lunacy, and just give you his dumbest moments from the past 18 months:

• May 11th, 2020: Inexplicably, David Barton argues that “it’s not the role of the federal government to handle the Covid-19 pandemic”. (You see, it wasn't that Donald Trump is doing a terrible job of stopping the outbreak, it’s that it’s not his job in the first place. Or so says David Barton’s deranged ass.)
• October 5th, 2020: Barton claims that the Third, Fourth, Fifth, Sixth, Seventh, and Eighth Amendments have all been violated by the government during the Covid-19 pandemic’s first nine months. It’s… almost like he has no understanding of the Constitution or reality as we know it.
• October 14th, 2020: David Barton continues misapplying the Third Amendment (which is about the right to not be forced to quarter soldiers in one’s home) to the Covid-19 pandemic, and also claims that ankle-monitoring systems for convicts are somehow a violation of the Third Amendment… which… MAYBE the Fourth Amendment would make more sense for that, but…? Anyway, at no point during the pandemic, have the military commandeered lodgings amongst the American populace.
• October 15th, 2020: Barton claims that any history book written about the Founding Fathers published after 1980 “cannot be trusted”, which is remarkable, because he himself wrote books about them after this date that included a hell of a lot of lies. So maybe… consider the source of the opinion.
• December 9th, 2020: Donald Trump responds to the 1619 Project by proposing a white-nationalist point-of-view in history called “The 1776 Project”, and Congressman Barry Loudermilk immediately thrusts David Barton’s name into the mix for who should be the chairman of the effort.
• June 21st, 2021: David Barton praises Hungarian strongman and Putin ally Viktor Orban for his crackdown on LGBTQ rights, saying that American Christians would do the same but “we’re too scared of getting beat up on by the media and others”.

And we again, remind our readers that David Barton, in spite of being factually wrong more often than correct on the topic he claims to be an expert on, history, is widely respected by Republican leaders, and that he is still not just allowed to help write the Republican Party Platform every four years, but can boast that his influence in the room can make it what he considers “the most biblically-friendly GOP Platform he’s ever seen”.

[babyblob]

I have head a lot about the debate on what kids are taught at home and what they are taught in school and such. I dont understand everything on Critical Race theory that everyone seems to be upset about.

I grew up in a very conservative household. The GOP way was the only way, Blacks and Mexicans were criminals, gays were the Devil's Children (But I will say my parents are amazingly accepting of my sexuality and have never insulted me, tried to change me or treated my boyfriends badly). I lived in a rural area and the schools reflected that. My school had 2 black children and 1 Latino out of 600 students. The Civil War was not about slaves. it was about States Rights, and economics.

I believed all these things. I limited my social circle, bought into the stereotypes (which in my mind were reinforced when I went to prison) Hell I even voted for Trump in 2016.

I cant detail the moment that I started to change and see things differently. All I know is over the last 5 years I have been very fed up and angry at what the GOP is doing and have done. I started to do more research (Part of that are things I have learned from this board by reading posts and links submitted) Part of it also came from my volunteer work with the prison reform group I used to work with. And also my aunt. I look at her and her friends and what they say angers and sickens me. I watch Fox news and I am like I cant believe I bought into this ****.

I am still learning. I still find myself buying into stereotypes at times. And there are some views on crime and criminals that are not very liberal that I doubt I will ever let go of. But I am trying to be more socially aware. It is not always easy. I know others who were raised in a family like mine. Some double down on it and are hardcore GOP some have moved past that and are Dems.

As someone who lived in that type of family and social circle I can 100 percent say the GOP platform is one of racism, hate, and fear mongering. They tell you what to be afraid of and who is to blame for your problems. People can say well im GOP but I am not racist. Fine but they support racism by voting for these people day in and day out. You cant say you are against hate while supporting the people who pass these voting restrictions and bans on gay and trans people.

[Mister Mets]

While I guess that what you mentioned is a part of it?

It's more that I tend to have my doubts about just how much education(versus home life/any give kid's social circle...) can really fundamentally turn a kid into something that they never would have been.

Take what seems to be a lot of the conservative angle on LGBT folks and how they should play into any child's education.

Let's say that we could magically create a world where their worst fears had been realized, and schools had carte blanche to try to "Teach..." kids to be gay.

Does anyone actually buy into that education alone would result in even most straight kids not eventually saying "Look, I know what you said I am, but I seriously believe that I am straight..."?

I think that, for the most part, kids are just going to wind up being their individual selves no matter how you attempt to used education to shape what they will wind up believing.

This question's a bit complicated.

There has been a significant increase in the percentage of people who identify as LGBT. 15.9% of Generation Z identify this way as opposed to 3.8% of Generation X. The main increase is in the percentage of people identifying as bisexual.

https://news.gallup.com/poll/329708/...-estimate.aspx

Obviously, there are multiple factors for people's willingness to identify as bisexual beyond support for LGBT rights in the schools, so it's not education alone. But school policy plays a role.

Education policy is also quite relevant when it comes to American history. There are quite a few people who aren't going to learn about history when they're done with school. School can also shape the narrative of their understanding of the country, the scaffolding for any future understanding. If kids don't learn important things about the past, they may also have a skewed understanding of current events.

[Jack Dracula]

I've said it since the beginning that it's truly a weird move for Conservatives to take an anti-vax stand on this, sure the anti-vax crowd will cheer...but they're just a small part of the conservative vote, the larger sum of voters are white, older and middle age people with poor access to health care which are at a great risk to Covid-19. So by not taking it seriously they are a far greater risk of literally killing off a portion of their voter base.

In the current subculture of Republican representatives an leadership in Washington the amount of social media attention someone is getting may carry as much clout as the ability to raise campaign funds.

[AnakinFlair]

In happier news, a third consecutive venue in California has cancelled and not allowed Matt Gaetz and Marjorie Taylor Greene to host one of their "America First" white nationalist rallies. This one was hours before the scheduled start.

Apparently he went on to speak at a Free Britney rally. Because sure, why not?

Conservative activists in Texas have shaped the history all American children learn - October 19, 2020

What I don't get is, no matter how big the school book market is in Texas, it can't be larger than the combined market in the other 49 states. Or even California alone. The books should show the true history of the country, warts and all. And if Texas doesn't like it, they can have their own books written.

I have head a lot about the debate on what kids are taught at home and what they are taught in school and such. I dont understand everything on Critical Race theory that everyone seems to be upset about.

I grew up in a very conservative household. The GOP way was the only way, Blacks and Mexicans were criminals, gays were the Devil's Children (But I will say my parents are amazingly accepting of my sexuality and have never insulted me, tried to change me or treated my boyfriends badly). I lived in a rural area and the schools reflected that. My school had 2 black children and 1 Latino out of 600 students. The Civil War was not about slaves. it was about States Rights, and economics.

I believed all these things. I limited my social circle, bought into the stereotypes (which in my mind were reinforced when I went to prison) Hell I even voted for Trump in 2016.

I cant detail the moment that I started to change and see things differently. All I know is over the last 5 years I have been very fed up and angry at what the GOP is doing and have done. I started to do more research (Part of that are things I have learned from this board by reading posts and links submitted) Part of it also came from my volunteer work with the prison reform group I used to work with. And also my aunt. I look at her and her friends and what they say angers and sickens me. I watch Fox news and I am like I cant believe I bought into this ****.

I am still learning. I still find myself buying into stereotypes at times. And there are some views on crime and criminals that are not very liberal that I doubt I will ever let go of. But I am trying to be more socially aware. It is not always easy. I know others who were raised in a family like mine. Some double down on it and are hardcore GOP some have moved past that and are Dems.

As someone who lived in that type of family and social circle I can 100 percent say the GOP platform is one of racism, hate, and fear mongering. They tell you what to be afraid of and who is to blame for your problems. People can say well im GOP but I am not racist. Fine but they support racism by voting for these people day in and day out. You cant say you are against hate while supporting the people who pass these voting restrictions and bans on gay and trans people.

I'm curious- have your parents come around on LGBTQ people and issues, or are they just supportive of you? I'd like to think that by having a gay child, your parents would have changed their minds at least on that issue.

[babyblob]

I'm curious- have your parents come around on LGBTQ people and issues, or are they just supportive of you? I'd like to think that by having a gay child, your parents would have changed their minds at least on that issue.

My mom has always been supportive on gay rights which angered her family a great deal. I have an uncle whose son came out as gay ten years ago and he still has issues with it. Doesnt understand how my parents do it.

My dad is supportive of me being gay/bi (Still not sure which as I am mainly attracted to men and have really only dated men but am now seeing a woman) to apoint. He has treated my boyfriends very well, welcomed them into our home and been very friendly and open with them. But he does not in any way agree with gay marriage which I find odd that is his line. I had a guy live with me for over a year and my dad was fine with that and came over twice a month for dinner and even hung out with my BF when I was not around. But if I ever marry a guy he will not call us husbands or attend the wedding.

he doesnt care about strangers being gay he just doesnt want to hear about it. He gets annoyed at gay characters on tv ( like the really over the top stereotypical ones) Which to be honest I kind of do at times as well. He also is not comfortable with the idea of Trans people and gender reassignment surgery. He is not hateful about it. Gets upset when people are being attacked for being trans or gay. Just would rather not talk about the issue.

[skyvolt2000]

So nothing to see in Texas, no attack on voting, or education or Women's rights. Move along, nothing going on there.

YOU mean the state that wanted to remove Hilary Clinton and Helen Keller from textbooks??? Along with the years 2008-2016 there was no President of Untied States.

Odd this is all going when in 2019...

https://www.dallasnews.com/news/educ...rest-of-texas/

A State Board of Education committee voted unanimously Thursday to present the course, which was developed for Dallas ISD, to the full board and members of the public in November. If approved, it would be Texas’ second ethnic studies course and could be offered in schools as soon as fall 2020.

The first ethnic studies course, focusing on Mexican American Studies, was granted statewide approval in April 2018 after four years of controversy over the creation, textbook material and naming of the class.

The curriculum approved for DISD this year was developed with input from scholars from various Texas universities and groups such as the NAACP and the League of United Latin American Citizens.

The curriculum begins by highlighting the contributions of African civilizations to math, science and history before exploring the lives and impact of African Americans throughout history. The hope is that educators talk about African Americans outside of discussions of slavery and the civil rights movement, Thomas said.

And a FYI for everyone.........

https://www.wyomingnews.com/rawlinst...ad15cd35d.html

Texas has been an egregious offender. For years they have reviewed textbooks before buying them. If they find objectionable content, they insist it be removed. Book publishers have been outraged, but Texas is one of the largest customers. And they can’t afford to publish multiple versions.
Consequently, Texas decides the content of most school textbooks.

So guess who you can thank for how your textbooks are done.

[babyblob]

[QUOTE=AnakinFlair;5639531]What I don't get is, no matter how big the school book market is in Texas, it can't be larger than the combined market in the other 49 states. Or even California alone. The books should show the true history of the country, warts and all. And if Texas doesn't like it, they can have their own books written./QUOTE]

I Find this odd Also. i would figure with as large as California school systems are they would have a larger market and therefore more say?

[Gray Lensman]

[QUOTE=babyblob;5639628]

What I don't get is, no matter how big the school book market is in Texas, it can't be larger than the combined market in the other 49 states. Or even California alone. The books should show the true history of the country, warts and all. And if Texas doesn't like it, they can have their own books written./QUOTE]

I Find this odd Also. i would figure with as large as California school systems are they would have a larger market and therefore more say?

California might not buy on a statewide level, or might not review things as heavily as Texas, and certainly hasn't pushed back against what they do. If a few states refuse to buy textbooks that have submitted to Texas's mandated whitewashing, then maybe we will see some changes.

[Robotman]

8 months?!? A slap on the wrist for trying to destroy our democracy.

Capitol rioter gets 8 months in prison in first Jan. 6 felony sentence