All purpose news and politics thread part VI: This Is Not The Time For Posing

[WestPhillyPunisher]

Remember when Ted Cruz led a bunch of Tea Party Yokels to throw things on the White House lawn and Pastor Larry Klayman demanded Obama "put down the Koran and come out with his hands up"?

Didn't hear about Obama becoming a BunkerBitch that day. And those people were armed.

Hell, even Richard Nixon had the stones to meet with anti-war protestors. Half a century later, Trump hid behind the Secret Service like a frightened child behind the skirts of his mother.

[WestPhillyPunisher]

As cities burned, Trump stayed silent — other than tweeting fuel on the fire

In cities across America on Sunday, people awoke to see shattered glass, charred vehicles, bruised bodies and graffiti-tagged buildings. Demonstrators gathered again in peaceful daytime protest of racial injustice. By evening, thousands had converged again in front of the White House, where people had rioted and set fires the night before.

President Trump stayed safely ensconced inside and had nothing to say, besides tweeting fuel on the fire.

Never in the 1,227 days of Trump’s presidency has the nation seemed to cry out for leadership as it did Sunday, yet Trump made no attempt to provide it.

That was by design. Trump and some of his advisers calculated that he should not speak to the nation because he had nothing new to say and had no tangible policy or action to announce yet, according to a senior administration official. Evidently not feeling an urgent motivation Sunday to try to bring people together, he stayed silent.

Trump let his tweets speak for themselves. One attacked the Democratic mayor of Minneapolis; another announced that his administration would designate the antifa movement a terrorist organization; a third accused the media of fomenting hatred and anarchy; and in yet another, he praised himself for the deployment of the National Guard and denigrated former vice president Joe Biden.

In one of his missives, Trump wrote, “Get tough Democrat Mayors and Governors. These people are ANARCHISTS. Call in our National Guard NOW. The World is watching and laughing at you and Sleepy Joe. Is this what America wants? NO!!!”

The United States is visibly, painfully broken by the unprecedented confluence of health, economic and social crises, any one of which alone would test a president. It was extraordinary then to hear some in the public arena suggest Sunday that this president ought stay in the background, arguing that Trump lacked the moral authority and credibility necessary to heal the country.

“He should just stop talking. This is like Charlottesville all over again,” Atlanta Mayor Keisha Lance Bottoms (D) said Sunday on CNN’s “State of the Union,” referring to Trump’s equivocations following a deadly white-supremacist rally in 2017. “He speaks, and he makes it worse. There are times when you should just be quiet. And I wish that he would just be quiet.”

This weekend exemplified many of the characteristics that have defined Trump’s five years as a presidential candidate and president — chaos and unrest, fear and anger, division and disruption. Some of these themes and qualities helped draw Trump’s supporters to him and keep them faithful, giving him a chance at reelection in November despite the carnage on his watch this spring.

Yet these same attributes make it challenging if not impossible for him to inspire unity, according to officials and strategists in both political parties.

It is an open question, too, whether Trump aspires to unite. There is ample evidence that he does not, as he built a political strategy around pitting groups against one another and declaring winners and losers.

[Mister Mets]

It should be noted that not many people had a negative view of his protest until Trump started tweeting about it. My personal theory is that he did it to cover for the news that Jared and Ivanka had been caught using a private email server for official business, basically what Hillary Clinton had been vilified for by Trump himself.

You think people would have had a positive view of burning down pharmacies if Trump hadn't said anything?

NY Police union doxxes Mayor's daughter

How big is this apple tree?

The Gizmodo reporter behind the tweet has clarified means that doxxing referred to publicly available information, such as that the mayor's family lives in Gracie Mansion.

https://twitter.com/dellcam/status/1267310781290381313

Okay, for clarification, I'm told: The address they provided was Gracie Mansion, the mayor's residence. (They used the wrong zip code). It did include an apartment number (?) The address was also not the only personally identifiable information (PII) included.

When you apply a very narrow definition of "voter" (all registered voters, not actual voters on voting day) and a very narrow definition of "majority" (just absolute majorities, no pluralities) and a very narrow definition of "is" Mets can conclusively prove that Hillary Clinton was a bad candidate.

Hillary Clinton lost to a guy who was a flawed and unpopular candidate before he was caught on tape bragging about grabbing women by the pussy. A non-terrible candidate would have won comfortably in those situations.

In countries without a two-party system, everybody considers a plurality a kind of majority. But we actually do run-off elections in most countries, which leads to real majorities. Your presidential election system is very broken, and it's not just the Electoral College. It's the spoilers.

If people are saying that Trump's failure to win a majority demonstrates a lack of legitimacy, this doesn't confer legitimacy to the other candidate, who still had 51.9% of the population voting for someone else. In this case, the spoiler was a ticket with two former Republican governors.

[babyblob]

Hillary Clinton lost to a guy who was a flawed and unpopular candidate before he was caught on tape bragging about grabbing women by the pussy. A non-terrible candidate would have won comfortably in those situations.

I dont like Hilary. I never really did. But the fact is she was America's choice. She did not lose to Trump He lost the popular vote by nearly 3 million votes. She did not lose. She won by a decent margine. It was the Electoral College that got Trump the White House. Not the people. So for people to say that Trump is the choice of the people and that America wanted him is very flawed and ignoring the facts. As much as I dont like Hilary she should be in the White House right now not Trump.

[Steel Inquisitor]

Hillary Clinton lost to a guy who was a flawed and unpopular candidate before he was caught on tape bragging about grabbing women by the pussy. A non-terrible candidate would have won comfortably in those situations.

Not when the other guy has Russia in his pocket and an FBI director breaking the Hatch act at the last moment. Trump's popularity says more about his supporters and the GOP than Hillary as a candidate. No candidate could win under those circumstances all working for Trump. You have an issue with Trump, look at the people who elected and enabled him, not Democrats.

If people are saying that Trump's failure to win a majority demonstrates a lack of legitimacy, this doesn't confer legitimacy to the other candidate, who still had 51.9% of the population voting for someone else. In this case, the spoiler was a ticket with two former Republican governors.

Trump's lack of legitimacy is more about Russian's interference, and it isn't the first time a Republican won by cheating.

[Mister Mets]

I dont like Hilary. I never really did. But the fact is she was America's choice. She did not lose to Trump He lost the popular vote by nearly 3 million votes. She did not lose. She won by a decent margine. It was the Electoral College that got Trump the White House. Not the people. So to say that Trump is the choice of the people and that America wanted him is very flawed and ignoring the facts. As much as I dont lie Hilary she should be in the White House right now not Trump.

I'm not saying that Trump is the choice of the people. It's more that Hillary isn't either. It was a close election in which one of two major candidates without majorities won by established and well-known rules.

[babyblob]

I'm not saying that Trump is the choice of the people. It's more that Hillary isn't either. It was a close election in which one of two major candidates without majorities won by established and well-known rules.

Maybe you are not saying he is the choice of the people. But she did get a majority of the votes that were cast. Just because she didnt get above a certain percent is a moot point.

[Mister Mets]

Maybe you are not saying he is the choice of the people. But she did get a majority of the votes that were cast. Just because she didnt get above a certain percent is a moot point.

A majority is literally 50% plus one.

She had a plurality.

Not when the other guy has Russia in his pocket and an FBI director breaking the Hatch act at the last moment. Trump's popularity says more about his supporters and the GOP than Hillary as a candidate. No candidate could win under those circumstances all working for Trump. You have an issue with Trump, look at the people who elected and enabled him, not Democrats.

The Hatch act restricts political campaign activities by federal employees. That wasn't what Comey did.

While I have an issue with Trump, I do also have an issue with the media and others for giving him outsized publicity in the primaries, which helped be the only alternative to Hillary Clinton.

I suspect Democrats greatly exaggerate the effect of Russian interference, which ended up being a fraction of total election spending.

Trump's lack of legitimacy is more about Russian's interference, and it isn't the first time a Republican won by cheating.

That one's probably exaggerated.

https://www.cnn.com/2015/10/31/polit...sults-studies/

[babyblob]

A majority is literally 50% plus one.

She had a plurality.]

Who cares if she didnt get over 50 percent of the vote. I dont care about percentage. I care about the number of votes counted. And when they were counted she got a majority of the votes cast. Maybe not a majority because it was not over 50 percent but a majority of the votes cast. That is what matters. Trump didnt get a majority either. Yet I hear several of his supporters and the MAGA crowd going on how he is Amewricas choice.
You are not one of them that is fine. I mistook what you said and I am sorry for that. To be honest both candidates were so flawed and bad I doubt anyone would have gotten 50 percent. More popular and less flawed candidates would have gotten over 50 percent I give you that. But that is not how it went t and in the end that is not what matters. I am honestly surprised voter turn out was as high as it was. You dont have to get over 50 percent to be president just get the most votes. And in the end even that didnt matter as the Electoral College told America your voice does not matter.

I hear a lot of Conservatives saying the Electoral College is needed so they are not voted down by more populous liberal states and their voices can be heard. But I dont hear these people saying how it is not fair the liberal votes dont matter. I voted for Trump in 2016 a mistake I will not make again. The fact is I and other Trump supporters at the time were out voted and we lost. That is how it should have went.

[Kirby101]

I was responding to someone who said Trump hadn't won the majority, so it's relevant that no one did.

Not really, when Trump lost the popular vote to Hillary by over 3 million votes.

[Jekyll]

Why are people just blindly going "He's a buisnessman" as uf thats a good thing ? Its a job title. Actually check his record, you can see he is indeed a buisnessman, a bad one.

The same reason people blindly support and vote for Republicans and Democrats.

[A Small Talent For War]

I don't see how anyone can really support a protest during a pandemic anyway. A few weeks ago people were making fun of the protestors insisting governments reopen businesses, churches and schools. How are these protests any less dangerous when it comes to spreading a deadly disease even if they were entirely peaceful?

[XPac]

I don't see how anyone can really support a protest during a pandemic anyway. A few weeks ago people were making fun of the protestors insisting governments reopen businesses, churches and schools. How are these protests any less dangerous when it comes to spreading a deadly disease even if they were entirely peaceful?

I think that's an aspect that's being overlooked here. Arguing that lives, black or otherwise, matter is somewhat undercut when you're endangering lives to make that point. Lives matter period... whether they are being endangered by corrupt police officers or the coronovirus, dead is dead either way. To act in a manner which suggest that lives lost to the coronovirus is somehow secondary to lives lost from corrupt police officers I think is a problematic stance.

If you're angry and frustrated enough, I suppose I can understand people saying screw social distancing guidelines. But I don't necessarily think that makes it the right or the smart thing to do. Not for the protestors, and not for the families of the protestors who may have to deal with the consequences of their actions.

I said this earlier in the thread but if not for the pandemic and the riots, I'd probably be out there myself. But I've got an 85 year old mother to take care of, so as much as I might sympathize with the movement I'm not about to put her at risk. I support the underlying principals behind the peaceful prosting (looting is a different matter), but I can't entirely support the act itself at this time.

[kidfresh512]

I don't see how anyone can really support a protest during a pandemic anyway. A few weeks ago people were making fun of the protestors insisting governments reopen businesses, churches and schools. How are these protests any less dangerous when it comes to spreading a deadly disease even if they were entirely peaceful?

If you are one of the minorities that are routinely targeted and killed with hardly ever any justice or real repercussions for the murderers. And are constantly told that "now isn't the time", or that this way or that way isn't the "right kind" of protest. If "they" would only do as they are told.

With an important election later this year, yet another slaughter in the streets of a black man and a hesitant arrest AFTER protesting began of a murdering cop I certainly cant criticize the anger and need to protest. Again not condoning violent protest at all.

I think that's an aspect that's being overlooked here. Arguing that lives, black or otherwise, matter is somewhat undercut when you're endangering lives to make that point. Lives matter period... whether they are being endangered by corrupt police officers or the coronovirus, dead is dead either way. To act in a manner which suggest that lives lost to the coronovirus is somehow secondary to lives lost from corrupt police officers I think is a problematic stance.

If you're angry and frustrated enough, I suppose I can understand people saying screw social distancing guidelines. But I don't necessarily think that makes it the right or the smart thing to do. Not for the protestors, and not for the families of the protestors who may have to deal with the consequences of their actions.

Whats the right way to handle it then? I am not arguing its safe to congregate in groups. I am not arguing its the best thing to combat the virus. But, people are fed up. Do they just offer "thoughts and prayers" once again? IF they didn't start protesting would the murdering officer even be charged with anything yet?

[Godzilla2099]

I don't see how anyone can really support a protest during a pandemic anyway. A few weeks ago people were making fun of the protestors insisting governments reopen businesses, churches and schools. How are these protests any less dangerous when it comes to spreading a deadly disease even if they were entirely peaceful?

There is a huge difference between protesting and rioting/looting.

This one I'm really nervous about. First my wife has to work the front lines in NYC finishing her residency now she has to move to Philly (University City) to complete her fellowship for one year. I'm trying my best to support her since she worked so hard for this but we're fighting a lot because I'm worried about her safety. I hate Philly and these riots aren't helping her case.