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  1. #5191
    Ultimate Member Mister Mets's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The no face guy View Post
    I was talking about people on this forum, who speak glowingly of China and Communist countries, not people stuck in developing countries.

    Pwrdon, I'm really curious about something, where are you getting your information from? Who and what are you reading that has helped shape your views on western colonialism. In short, who are the authors I should be reading if I wanted to understand your viewpoints? and what would be your recommended reading list?




    Thankfully, when I came on here I thought I would be debating a bunch of avatar people like "Mister Mets" (who I appreciate his courage of continually providing an adversarial right wing vewpoint, as it's always healthy to debate and question your own political credo)

    I never imagined though, that I'd be continually engaged in conversations with people who see the United States less favourably than a country like Venezuela.
    Regarding my adversarial right wing viewpoint, I'm not that right-wing. I'm curious about how many here (note: I'm not making an accusation about you as an individual since you do seem more comfortable having civil discussions with people you disagree with politically) would believe it's healthy to debate an actual Trump supporter, let alone someone as far to the right as some of the regulars here are to the left.
    Sincerely,
    Thomas Mets

  2. #5192
    Latverian ambassador Iron Maiden's Avatar
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    In other news, The Rolling Stones have threatened legal action against the Trump campaign for using their music without permission at his rallies. Trump's rallies usually end with the Stones "You Can't Get What You Want" and even the BMI is getting involved in this. The Stones are threatening legal action if the Trump campaign continues. For those interested in the legal aspects, BMI usually works with large venues and allows them to have a blanket license for events held at their facility. But 10 years ago they created a separate Political Entities License to cover situations where the artists does not want their work used during a political event. This was clarified in a statement by the BMI

    “BMI’s Political Entities License was implemented about ten years ago to cover political campaigns,” Thomas says. “Since many political events and rallies are often held at places that don’t typically require a music license, such as airport hangars or community fields, a Political Entities License ensures that wherever the campaign stops, it is in compliance with copyright law. A venue license was never intended to cover political campaigns. So if a campaign attempts to rely on a venue license to cover its music use, there’s risk involved.”

    There have been a number of recording artists and performers that have objected to Trump using their music going back to 2015

    From Forbes Magazine:

    June 16, 2015 On the same day he announced his candidacy, Trump was denounced by Canadian-born singer-songwriter Neil Young, who put out a statement saying Trump was “not authorized” to play ‘Rockin’ In The Free World’ at his announcement and noting that Young was a supporter of Vermont Senator Bernie Sanders.

    September 9, 2015 Rock band R.E.M. said they “do not authorize or condone” Trump playing ‘It’s the End of the World as We Know It’ at a rally to oppose the Iran deal, with bassist Mike Mills telling Trump to, “cease and desist,” and lead singer Michael Stipe tweeting, “Go fuck yourselves, the lot of you—you sad, attention grabbing, power-hungry little men. Do not use our music or my voice for your moronic charade of a campaign."

    October 14, 2015 Trump begrudgingly agreed to stop using the music of 70’s rock band Aerosmith, tweeting that lead singer Stephen Tyler “asked me not to,” and declaring he’d “have better one to take its place,” later claiming in a follow-up tweet that Tyler “got more publicity on his song request than he’s gotten in ten years.”

    February 1, 2016 A spokesperson for Adele decried Trump’s use of her songs ‘Skyfall’ and ‘Rolling in the Deep’ at his rallies, saying in a statement that the British pop singer “has not given permission for her music to be used for any political campaigning.”

    February 2, 2016 British singer Elton John, a staple of the Trump presidency whose song ‘Rocketman’ was the inspiration for Trump’s eponymous nickname for North Korean dictator Kim Jong Un, slammed Trump for using his music, later saying it was “nothing personal” and that he doesn’t want his music used in American elections.

    July 19, 2016 British rock band Queen persistently hit Trump and the GOP over their use of their use of ‘We Are The Champions’ at the 2016 Republican National Convention, saying in a statement that they were “frustrated by the repeated unauthorized use of the song after a previous request to desist,” and that the band “does not want its associated with any mainstream or political debate in any country.”

    July 20, 2016 R&B groups Earth, Wind & Fire and The O’Jays echoed Queen’s complaints about the Republican Convention over the GOP’s use of ‘September’ and ‘Love Train,’ with Earth, Wind & Fire tweeting “Another unauthorized use (September) at the Republican Convention, against our wishes,” and the O’Jays saying Trump “may be the anti-Christ.”

    July 22, 2016 British bands The Beatles and The Rolling Stones both decried the use of their music at the Republican Convention as well, with the estate of the late Beatles singer George Harrison stating, “The unauthorized use of ‘Here Comes the Sun’ at the RNC is offensive & against the wishes of the George Harrison estate,” joking that they may have approved the use of ‘Beware of Darkness.’
    The list goes on to include Twisted Sister, Rihanna, Pharrell Williams, Guns N' Roses along with the estates of Prince and Tom Petty. Bruce Springsteen had the same issue with Republicans like Reagan and Pat Buchanan using "Born in the USA, a song whose irony apparently escaped them.

    Would love to see the Stone take the Trump campaign to court over this and get a judgment.....not that they need the money. I wondered if his mobs ever thought about the lyrics to "You Can't Always Get What You Want" are saying.

  3. #5193
    Invincible Jersey Girl Tami's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mister Mets View Post
    Regarding my adversarial right wing viewpoint, I'm not that right-wing. I'm curious about how many here (note: I'm not making an accusation about you as an individual since you do seem more comfortable having civil discussions with people you disagree with politically) would believe it's healthy to debate an actual Trump supporter, let alone someone as far to the right as some of the regulars here are to the left.
    I do it at least once a week, it's not fun. We usually end up agreeing to disagree then move on to other discussions.
    Original join date: 11/23/2004
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  4. #5194
    Extraordinary Member PaulBullion's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by InformationGeek View Post
    *Long stare* Ummmmmmm, this seems oddly suspicious. The pricing?

    It's only a nazi dog whistle until you add the sales tax, though!
    "How does the Green Goblin have anything to do with Herpes?" - The Dying Detective

    Hillary was right!

  5. #5195
    Astonishing Member PwrdOn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mister Mets View Post
    Regarding my adversarial right wing viewpoint, I'm not that right-wing. I'm curious about how many here (note: I'm not making an accusation about you as an individual since you do seem more comfortable having civil discussions with people you disagree with politically) would believe it's healthy to debate an actual Trump supporter, let alone someone as far to the right as some of the regulars here are to the left.
    The thing is, most Trump voters are at least honest about what they believe and who they support, and so while a lot of them can be pretty annoying to talk to, at least you know where they stand. You, on the other hand, are always trying to pretend like you're "just asking questions" and weaseling out of taking a stance on controversial issues you obviously support but don't want to admit that you support. But people aren't idiots, and we've all been on the internet long enough to be familiar with these kinds of cheap and disingenuous debate tactics, so you'd really be better off just engaging with us in good faith rather than resorting to "gotcha" tactics that never actually work anyway.

  6. #5196
    Ultimate Member Gray Lensman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PaulBullion View Post
    It's only a nazi dog whistle until you add the sales tax, though!
    So it still counts in New Hampshire.
    "Theory: The Phoenix doesn't corrupt the characters, it corrupts the authors." Gambit, King of Thieves

  7. #5197
    Extraordinary Member Malvolio's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mister Mets View Post
    If someone's been voting for Republicans up until 2016, they probably like Kavanaugh. Their problem with Trump is the things that would not apply to a generic Republican President.
    I wasn't talking about people who voted for Republicans. I was talking about people who say they won't vote at all or will vote for a third party candidate because they say that Biden is just as bad as Trump. So my point is that Biden's potential Supreme Court picks would not be even a fraction as bad as Trump's Supreme Court picks.
    Watching television is not an activity.

  8. #5198
    Extraordinary Member Malvolio's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PaulBullion View Post
    It's only a nazi dog whistle until you add the sales tax, though!
    And the shipping. Don't forget the shipping cost.
    Watching television is not an activity.

  9. #5199
    Extraordinary Member PaulBullion's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Malvolio View Post
    And the shipping. Don't forget the shipping cost.
    I'm totally shipping Trump and Eva Braun.
    "How does the Green Goblin have anything to do with Herpes?" - The Dying Detective

    Hillary was right!

  10. #5200
    Incredible Member The no face guy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mister Mets View Post
    Regarding my adversarial right wing viewpoint, I'm not that right-wing. I'm curious about how many here (note: I'm not making an accusation about you as an individual since you do seem more comfortable having civil discussions with people you disagree with politically) would believe it's healthy to debate an actual Trump supporter, let alone someone as far to the right as some of the regulars here are to the left.
    I see, I admit that I have not been reading all your posts, but I assumed you were a traditional moderate Republican who was concerned about the growing intolerance of identity politics on the left, and therefore poking the hornet's nest, aka Sam Harris style.

    Civil discussion is simply a sign of maturity and political moderation. Many younger people have trouble with this because they feel if the right wing of the spectrum would disappear, their lives would dramatically improve, and while there might be some truth in this from my perspective, at the end of the day, evolution is not so kind, the history of humanity's nature would dictate that new forms of oppression, inequality, and barbarity would arise.

    Political extremists on the other hand, often have challenges in debating the other side, because they ultimately view the other side as the enemy or being either willingly or unwillingly complicit in supporting a system of oppression or a system that will lead to their nation's conquest, depending if their on the left or the right.

  11. #5201
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    Quote Originally Posted by The no face guy View Post
    I see, I admit that I have not been reading all your posts, but I assumed you were a traditional moderate Republican who was concerned about the growing intolerance of identity politics on the left, and therefore poking the hornet's nest, aka Sam Harris style.

    Civil discussion is simply a sign of maturity and political moderation. Many younger people have trouble with this because they feel if the right wing of the spectrum would disappear, their lives would dramatically improve, and while there might be some truth in this from my perspective, at the end of the day, evolution is not so kind, the history of humanity's nature would dictate that new forms of oppression, inequality, and barbarity would arise.

    Political extremists on the other hand, often have challenges in debating the other side, because they ultimately view the other side as the enemy or being either willingly or unwillingly complicit in supporting a system of oppression or a system that will lead to their nation's conquest, depending if their on the left or the right.
    Id say, a lot of us marginalized folks are sick and tired of having "civil discussions" and being asked to do emotional labor for those on the other side who choose to remain ignorant

  12. #5202
    Ultimate Member Mister Mets's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PwrdOn View Post
    The thing is, most Trump voters are at least honest about what they believe and who they support, and so while a lot of them can be pretty annoying to talk to, at least you know where they stand. You, on the other hand, are always trying to pretend like you're "just asking questions" and weaseling out of taking a stance on controversial issues you obviously support but don't want to admit that you support. But people aren't idiots, and we've all been on the internet long enough to be familiar with these kinds of cheap and disingenuous debate tactics, so you'd really be better off just engaging with us in good faith rather than resorting to "gotcha" tactics that never actually work anyway.
    If you ask me a question in good faith (IE- no loaded questions), I'll do my best to answer.

    The idea that I dodge offering controversial opinions is pretty ridiculous. I will say things that can piss off Republicans and Democrats simultaneously, like expressing preferences that some Republicans win and some Republicans lose in crucial elections in the midterms.

    https://community.cbr.com/showthread...ke#post3979337

    Left-wing posters have called for me to be banned, and some right-winger did a youtube video about how much he hates me.

    I do try to be precise, and focus on a question at hand, rather than viewing every issue as a proxy for which side is right. The main time I might seem evasive is when I'm working out a controversial question myself and/ or do not know the answer. As a general principle, I do think it is better to acknowledge uncertainty and to take care to avoid saying things that may turn out to be untrue.
    Sincerely,
    Thomas Mets

  13. #5203
    Ultimate Member Mister Mets's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Malvolio View Post
    I wasn't talking about people who voted for Republicans. I was talking about people who say they won't vote at all or will vote for a third party candidate because they say that Biden is just as bad as Trump. So my point is that Biden's potential Supreme Court picks would not be even a fraction as bad as Trump's Supreme Court picks.
    It depends on whose perspective.

    If you're trying to talk a Jill Stein voter into backing Biden, they will likely find Biden's court picks superior to Trump's.

    The context of the comments on persuading people was SUPERECWFAN1 talking about discussions with someone who consistently voted for Republicans. From that person's perspective, the court is not a great argument for Biden.

    The focus would have to be on things that make Trump unique, rather than on the things that would be the case in any Republican administration.

    Quote Originally Posted by The no face guy View Post
    I see, I admit that I have not been reading all your posts, but I assumed you were a traditional moderate Republican who was concerned about the growing intolerance of identity politics on the left, and therefore poking the hornet's nest, aka Sam Harris style.

    Civil discussion is simply a sign of maturity and political moderation. Many younger people have trouble with this because they feel if the right wing of the spectrum would disappear, their lives would dramatically improve, and while there might be some truth in this from my perspective, at the end of the day, evolution is not so kind, the history of humanity's nature would dictate that new forms of oppression, inequality, and barbarity would arise.

    Political extremists on the other hand, often have challenges in debating the other side, because they ultimately view the other side as the enemy or being either willingly or unwillingly complicit in supporting a system of oppression or a system that will lead to their nation's conquest, depending if their on the left or the right.
    Even the typical traditional moderate Republican probably ended up voting for Trump, and will vote for him this time. I didn't vote for Trump last time, and have been in favor of Biden since before he was an announced candidate.

    I am still concerned about the growing intolerance of identity politics on the left and the implications of the policy proposals. However, among United States voters, there are going to be a lot of people to my right.
    Sincerely,
    Thomas Mets

  14. #5204
    Ultimate Member Gray Lensman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MiddleMan View Post
    Id say, a lot of us marginalized folks are sick and tired of having "civil discussions" and being asked to do emotional labor for those on the other side who choose to remain ignorant
    I'd also note that number of people who say they are "just asking questions" and "merely trying to have a civil discussion" when they have no intention of honestly doing either. There are people who mean those words when they say them, but there is an increasing number of people who use those words and then undermine any attempt at discussion. It's the people who "merely want to have an honest debate" about whether or not the holocaust ever actually happened, only spreading out to other topics.
    "Theory: The Phoenix doesn't corrupt the characters, it corrupts the authors." Gambit, King of Thieves

  15. #5205
    Incredible Member The no face guy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mister Mets View Post
    It depends on whose perspective.

    Even the typical traditional moderate Republican probably ended up voting for Trump, and will vote for him this time. I didn't vote for Trump last time, and have been in favor of Biden since before he was an announced candidate.

    I am still concerned about the growing intolerance of identity politics on the left and the implications of the policy proposals. However, among United States voters, there are going to be a lot of people to my right.
    Yes, it should be noted that identity politics is growing problem on the left and right. The growth of reactionary right wing populism/nationalism is troubling, particularly in Eastern Europe and developing nations where it seems to be undermining the growth of democracy.

    As for your country, I think it's hit its peak with Trump, ultimately it will probably be incorporated into the mainstream of the Republican Party now to placate their base, but ultimately I do not see another Trump, demographics do not favour their lot in the long term.

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