All purpose news and politics thread part VI: This Is Not The Time For Posing

[Tendrin]

Wonder how long it'll be before one of our mags guys drops by again?

[ChangingStation]

Wonder how long it'll be before one of our mags guys drops by again?

If they do, I want to ask everyone to leave them to me. Or rather not engage in the first place. It will only entrench them in their position. I've been doing some reading up and it looks increasingly clear to me that their critical thinking skills have been suppressed.

[Mister Mets]

A) A candidate conceding governor results while noting irregularites with colossal evidence of malfeasance practised by the winner, who then spends the remained two years undoing voter suppression and registering the disenfranchised, all entirely in the legal and lawful manner.

B) An incumbent who refuses to accept results, falsely claims he's won, sends moronic lawsuits, is abandoned by his own party, is sub rosa and actual rosa inciting violence and is openly trying to stop the vote count and sending people to disturb voting stations to the extension that Election Workers are fearing for their lives.

Can you solve this riddle?

Hint, what's the difference between "Getting even" and "Getting mad"?

Abrams is noteworthy for not actually conceding.

https://news.yahoo.com/why-stacey-ab...194648579.html

Yes. But take Mr Mets for example...he made it clear a long time ago he was voting for Joe mainly because he disliked The Donald. Give him a more like-able candidate and he will be back to his normal routine of voting Republican.

I really don’t think Mets is on his own on taking that line.

One can only hope.

Could what the Donald did to the Republican Party (grab their Presidential nomination without any real political background) be done by some one else to the Democrats?

It's possible, but difficult.

Republicans have generally liked businessman outsiders. Herman Cain briefly led in 2012, and Romney talked more about being a businessman or running the Salt Lake City Olympics than he did about being a former Governor.

Democrats tend to like people with political backgrounds. However, the media environment has allowed for greater publicity for people who don't have the traditional qualifications for the presidency (Pete Buttigieg is a small city mayor, Stacey Abrams was the minority leader of a state legislature) so it's conceivable that someone like that will catch fire at the right moment.

In theory yes. In practice...

The problem with the GOP is that they haven't had a real national level candidate since Reagan. Reagan's legacy propelled HW, but then he became a one-termer.

Then came W. who beat Ann Richards in TX and that propelled him over John McCain (similar issue as HRC, never won a competitive election against a Blue Candidate in a contestible seat). W. himself remember lost the popular vote in 2000 (by an admittedly small margin) and in 2004 he won (with also a small margin) and he ended his Presidency with low approval ratings and was unpopular with his own base offering no legacy for McCain in '08. Romney in 2012 also failed.

So Trump's candidacy was as much a condition for the GOP's situation in 2015-16 as his own unique nature. No other party would have been transformed that way by such a candidate.

The Democratic party has won popular votes consistently for the last 20 years -- Gore, Obama, HRC, Biden -- so it doesn't have problems of fielding national level candidates the way GOP does. So there's not really much need for an outsider without political backgrounds to find purchase there.

Political outsiders who can win a presidential nomination aren't necessarily going to be less likely to win the national vote.

A version of Donald Trump without his biggest scandals would probably have won the popular vote in 2016, and been reelected this year.

While I ain't about to say that Graham doesn't deserve the name calling, not cool.

Don't you know homophobia is fine when used against a Republican?

[Kusanagi]

reports are Biden's lead is now +1000 in Georgia

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/...e-2020-updates

[ChangingStation]

Abrams is noteworthy for not actually conceding.

https://news.yahoo.com/why-stacey-ab...194648579.html

One can only hope.

It's possible, but difficult.

Republicans have generally liked businessman outsiders. Herman Cain briefly led in 2012, and Romney talked more about being a businessman or running the Salt Lake City Olympics than he did about being a former Governor.

Democrats tend to like people with political backgrounds. However, the media environment has allowed for greater publicity for people who don't have the traditional qualifications for the presidency (Pete Buttigieg is a small city mayor, Stacey Abrams was the minority leader of a state legislature) so it's conceivable that someone like that will catch fire at the right moment.

Political outsiders who can win a presidential nomination aren't necessarily going to be less likely to win the national vote.

A version of Donald Trump without his biggest scandals would probably have won the popular vote in 2016, and been reelected this year.

Don't you know homophobia is fine when used against a Republican?

I'm more angered about (most but not all of) the Republicans refusal to speak up against these attempts to undermine Democracy, aren't you? Accusing the other side of voter fraud without evidence is incredibly dangerous, I mean unless you count all those stories that are being spread online which are incredibly unlikely if only due to the fact that the Republicans under Trump won more.

I mean I'm not against you because of your politics (I disagree with you but I can respect your positions), I'm against the Republicans because they are clearly a shadow of what they once were. It's all about hating Libs now (one of those elected literally started insulting people) and that's not how a healthy political party should act.

As for the miss comment, that wasn't just homophobia, it was toxic masculinity, which we've seen quite enough of.

[babyblob]

I think the GOP will be in panic mode after this. They are going to have the duel problem of trying to distance themselves from Trump while at the same time trying to keep his hardcore followers happy so they come out to vote for other GOp in the 2022 midterms. I dont know who they would even think of running in 2024 because they backed Trump so hard they havnt even looked past him or at the possibility that he would lose to Biden.

One thing I am getting a huge kick out of is all The Trumpers bitching about Voter supression and talking about how their votes dont count and it is not fair that a whole group would not be aloowed to vote or have their votes not count just because of who they are and where they were cast.

While at the same time being happy with the idea and fighting for thousands of legal votes to be thrown out. My aunt donated 100 bucks to Trumps legal fund this morning. Sigh.

[babyblob]

Wonder how long it'll be before one of our mags guys drops by again?

Yea I kind of wonder where that guy with the Spidey username has been the last few days. he came on here and talked like crazy about a huge Trump win. or that guy who was laughing about the election while saying he is selling his polling model that predicted Trump as a winner in a landslide.

[kidfresh512]

Yea I kind of wonder where that guy with the Spidey username has been the last few days. he came on here and talked like crazy about a huge Trump win. or that guy who was laughing about the election while saying he is selling his polling model that predicted Trump as a winner in a landslide.

Oh yeah the polling model guy!

[Steel Inquisitor]

See, this is what political discussions should be about. But again 2024 is way ahead.

In the case of Kamala, if she runs in 2024, her platform will be continuity with Biden's administration...but that would be hard to sell if the Republicans win 2022 because the substantial legislation and reform of the Biden-Harris is likely to happen between 2022-2024 if at all. In that scenario, she'd have to run a '48 Harry Truman style campaign in 2024. That was a President with low popularity running against a candidate who had the house and senate and somehow through sheer gumption and gusto snatching victory from the jaws of defeat and putting himself and the Dems back in office, "Give 'em hell, Harris". Harris has gumption so she has those qualities.

But again it's way in the future.

True.

If Plain Moderate Joe is gonna be called a socialist, then I think the Dems should let that slide and ignore it. Bernie Sanders highlighting the "socialism of the rich" is a great point, and you know in Florida a large chunk of Trump voters voted to increase the minimum wage of $15, so everyone wants socialism for themselves and capitalism for the rest (which by the way Karl Marx himself pointed out, he said that a capitalist always wants his rival company to pay their workers higher wages so that they can buy more of his products, while underpaying their own workforce).

Except Dems can't afford to ignore how poisoned being socialist is, it's a very effect smear and being called a socialist with no proof will hit harder when that's actually true and that's not getting into things like candidates endorsing left wing dictatorships, a line of attack available to Bernie but not Biden. It's not simply about Florida, they're just a bellwether and they're a swing state. It's true socialism is popular but it has to be packaged right, embracing socialism up front is a weakness to the electorate during presidential elections.

[Tendrin]

Oh yeah the polling model guy!

Polling model xD xD xD

[ChangingStation]

I think the GOP will be in panic mode after this. They are going to have the duel problem of trying to distance themselves from Trump while at the same time trying to keep his hardcore followers happy so they come out to vote for other GOp in the 2022 midterms. I dont know who they would even think of running in 2024 because they backed Trump so hard they havnt even looked past him or at the possibility that he would lose to Biden.

One thing I am getting a huge kick out of is all The Trumpers bitching about Voter supression and talking about how their votes dont count and it is not fair that a whole group would not be aloowed to vote or have their votes not count just because of who they are and where they were cast.

While at the same time being happy with the idea and fighting for thousands of legal votes to be thrown out. My aunt donated 100 bucks to Trumps legal fund this morning. Sigh.

https://freedomofmind.com/the-cult-o...ked-questions/

I've been meaning to show you this. It has some advice on why Trump supporters act the way they do as well as how to get through to them.

[Tami]

reports are Biden's lead is now +1000 in Georgia

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/...e-2020-updates

I hope Biden gets PA, but even if he doesn't if he can keep GA, NV, and AZ he's won. NV might take forever to finish counting, so getting PA will be a quicker way to conclude this.

Actually, even just GA and AZ is enough to give Biden 270. Just enough.

[Tami]

https://freedomofmind.com/the-cult-o...ked-questions/

I've been meaning to show you this. It has some advice on why Trump supporters act the way they do as well as how to get through to them.

I read through this, and one thought that it left me with is that, unlike other cult leaders, I suspect (no proof of course, just from my own observations) that Trump himself is as much a Cult Member as his followers are.

Trump, in the way he talks and acts, the way he espouses conspiracy theories and from other clues, gives off the vibe of someone who is part of the cult of someone else, like Putin. Or maybe of himself, as if he has a detached reality view of himself that verges on something.

Perhaps there is more than one types of cult leader, the kind that believes their own propaganda to the point of believing they are the 2nd coming of something. Then there are the more pragmatic cult leaders who may say something tot heir followers but are fully aware of the truth, of their actions, and of the consequences.

I think Trump may have started out as the first, but then fell down his own rabbit hole and now believes his own lies about himself to the point of irrationality.

I could be wrong about this.

[KOSLOX]

Oh yeah the polling model guy!

I was wondering the same thing. It's a pretty bad year to be shopping around a polling model. That industry is going to need to be rebuilt from the ground up.

[babyblob]

https://freedomofmind.com/the-cult-o...ked-questions/

I've been meaning to show you this. It has some advice on why Trump supporters act the way they do as well as how to get through to them.

Thank you I will check this out today.