All purpose news and politics thread part VI: This Is Not The Time For Posing

[babyblob]

And that makes his superiors accessories to the crime.
Any who reviewed those complaints and could've prevented this officer from interacting with the public carries part of the blame.

IMO the service records of any officer receiving complaints should come under review by some sort of independent citizen committee. Police unions be damned. If they won't stand for scrutiny by the public the supposedly protect and serve, they can quit. The fucking "Blue Wall" needs to come down.

I agree with this. It amazes me that so many people are shocked that this man could do such a thing. it was only a matter of time. The IA division does not just need to be staffed with police who investigate their own. They need to have a citizen review board attached to them. because police investigating police does not work when you only have 2 letters in your file after 18 complaints.

[PaulBullion]

Super rich, better doctors then any of us can hope to get.

I don't know. Medicine is not THAT advanced.

I think a deal with an elder demon is more likely. It would explain a lot.

[JamesonAnders]

People will back organizations like the NRA without believing that they're making things worse.

Agreed. That should not be supposed to mean they are not, actually, making things worse. People will back organizations like the American Nazi Party without believing they are making things worse.

It's up to the rest of us to stand up against these people. I would hope you agree.

These things are controversial because there are no easy solutions.

Mostly, at the political level, there is controversy because there is so much money involved.

What more do we need to do in order to hold law enforcement accountable?

We need to enforce that law enforement, because of their position, are much more accountable for their actions than anyone not in their position. We need to understand that the Mark Furmans of the world are not acceptable, and we nee to acknowledge that charge brought by people with racist or other bigoted beliefs are not admissible in court.

That is why I added the alternative "don't believe merit the attention they receive." In this case, most people broadly believe that bad cops should be investigated. The main disagreement would be about how a big problem bad cops are, and how much attention should be devoted to it.

The main disagreement would be what is the problem, not how large it is. There are far too may people who think what happened to Trayvon Martin was justified.

However, whatever policy we want for the response to protesters shouldn't be based on whether we agree with them. Otherwise, it gives intellectual cover for officeholders to go after protesters they disagree with, and reward the ones on their side.

In order to show that someone is wrong, there does need to be some kind of alternative presented. Otherwise, there is the potential argument that a deeply flawed outcome is the least-bad of several terrible choices.

Wow. Just...wow. "In order to show that someone is wrong, there does need to be some kind of alternative presented." I cannot begin to imagine being able to sleep with such a sick mindset. I hope you meant something different than you implied.

A complicating factor that people will rarely admit is that sometimes the right thing to do is not popular. In these cases, Democrats would be loathe to say what their policy would be. There are also situations in which Republicans would prefer criticism to offering a clear alternative (witness the failure to come up with an alternative to the Affordable Care Act) so it's not a matter of one party having the moral high road on this. But in the mid-1990s, it would have been politically difficult for Democrats to offer an alternative to tough on crime policies, and win elections. Especially in Texas.

Democrats have largely been consistent in what their policies would be. How dare you suggest otherwise. There are rare, extremist exceptions, as there are on the Republican side, but there can be little logical argument based on the last 40 years that Democratic policies have been more favorable to America and the world than Republican policies.

[babyblob]

Victim blaming. Predictable. I think I read somewhere that the coroner found no basis for Floyd having died as a result of Chauvin’s actions, leading the Floyd family to seek a second, outside opinion.

The coroner says its not the cops fault. If the second opinion for Floyds family says it it the cops fault who are you going to believe?

[PaulBullion]

The coroner says its not the cops fault. If the second opinion for Floyds family says it it the cops fault who are you going to believe?

I saw a video of a man, for what felt like an eternity, telling the cops that he cannot breathe, begging for his life.

If it comes out that he had some kind of preexisting condition, does that really matter? He told them he was dying. They continued to keep him from breathing.

[babyblob]

I saw a video of a man, for what felt like an eternity, telling the cops that he cannot breathe, begging for his life.

If it comes out that he had some kind of preexisting condition, does that really matter? He told them he was dying. They continued to keep him from breathing.

I agree I just meant my statement as a way to say some people may be swayed by conflicting opinions despite the video. One of the people is in a position of authority whose opinions are routinely used as fact to put killers behind bars. I mean there was video in the King case and they were acquitted.

[Tami]

FBI's top lawyer, Dana Boente, ousted amid Fox News criticism for role in Flynn investigation


So, it's true. Fox News is running the country.

[The Cool Thatguy]

FBI's top lawyer, Dana Boente, ousted amid Fox News criticism for role in Flynn investigation


So, it's true. Fox News is running the country.

Was this a secret?

[babyblob]

Another lie by Trump. he tweeted that the mayor of DC refused to send the police. But as Cnn is reporting his own Secret Service has told them that the DC police were there in a small number and that they were asked not to send a lot of officers because of overlap. And that The DC police had more then one team of officers standing by in case things went bad at the White House.

[jetengine]

The drug thing is bullshit. Toxicology takes 2 weeks to return. This is a coroner throwing a suggestion out and a rather obvious one at that.

[Electricmastro]

The deployment of 1,700 National Guard soldiers would apparently be the largest national deployment in the Minnesota’s history: https://www.news.com.au/world/breaki...f81a43a49c4310

I‘m reminded of when Christians killed Jews in the year 1096 during the Crusades in the Middle Ages, even though Christians are ideally meant to love their neighbors as themselves. It’s a perversion of a good intention, and the corrupt police officers, however few, remind me of that. The types of cops that choose to project their scapegoating assumptions onto black people, even though black people are just trying to make themselves heard in their lives mattering and wanting to improve their quality of life. And instead of helping to improve their quality of life, those cops decide to militarize and further terrorize innocent black people, extending the chaotic cycle. A suggestion would be towards someone with enough power and influence announcing to actively reorganize police departments and improve black peoples’ lives, but it seems that hasn‘t happened yet.

Constantly deploying more soldiers and militarized police simply shouldn’t be the way, and black lives definitely matter to the point that more productivity should be had in figuring out what solutions could be actively carried out, and how the good-intentioned non-blacks and blacks can also work together to achieve that and improve their quality of life.

[Mister Mets]

Agreed. That should not be supposed to mean they are not, actually, making things worse. People will back organizations like the American Nazi Party without believing they are making things worse.

It's up to the rest of us to stand up against these people. I would hope you agree.

I agree that we should stand up to people who we think are making things worse, be they in the American Nazi Party, NRA, the Young Democratic Socialists of America, police unions, Black Lives Matter, or whatever organization.

Mostly, at the political level, there is controversy because there is so much money involved.

I suspect there's money at stake in most controversies.

We need to enforce that law enforement, because of their position, are much more accountable for their actions than anyone not in their position. We need to understand that the Mark Furmans of the world are not acceptable, and we nee to acknowledge that charge brought by people with racist or other bigoted beliefs are not admissible in court.

What does it mean for cops to be more accountable? Do you mean that cops should be prosecuted in situations in which we would not prosecute civilians, because the police are expected to have more training?

As for the idea that charges brought by people with bigoted beliefs should not be admissible in court, there are going to be some tough questions. How would you expect the justice system to determine whether someone is a bigot? Does this apply to every situation? If a racist man is mugged, does this mean he can't file charges?

Wow. Just...wow. "In order to show that someone is wrong, there does need to be some kind of alternative presented." I cannot begin to imagine being able to sleep with such a sick mindset. I hope you meant something different than you implied.

I'm curious what you think is implied.

My basic point is that if you think a policy or action is wrong, you should be able to recommend some kind of alternative. In disgusting situations, there is going to be something else that could have been done. With the death of George Floyd, we could certainly agree that there were ways cops could have handled the situation without anyone kneeling on his neck.

Democrats have largely been consistent in what their policies would be. How dare you suggest otherwise. There are rare, extremist exceptions, as there are on the Republican side, but there can be little logical argument based on the last 40 years that Democratic policies have been more favorable to America and the world than Republican policies.

I do disagree with the idea that Democrats have been entirely consistent, or that they all think the same, especially to the extent that any hint otherwise merits a response of "how dare you."

In the recent primary, Biden, Sanders and Harris were criticized for past votes and positions.

OK, if it upsets you I will stop trying to broaden your horizons in the future.

America, **** yeah!

I'm not upset, although you do seem unaware of a potential difference in perspective if you think the only thing you could have done that someone might object to is attempt to broaden their horizons.

In a response to one of my posts, you said "Stop pretending that the world ends at our beaches and that we are doomed to being the shithole country we are." That certainly leaves the impression I said something that would suggest that we can't consider policies from other countries.

There's nothing wrong with attempting to broaden the horizons of people reading this discussion, perhaps with a link to a good source of information about how other countries handle law enforcement. But if you leave an incorrect impression about me, i will point it out.

[The Cool Thatguy]

The drug thing is bullshit. Toxicology takes 2 weeks to return. This is a coroner throwing a suggestion out and a rather obvious one at that.

I guess we're supposed t believe that having a two hundred pound man pressing down on someone's throat for 9 minutes is otherwise harmless

[Tami]

Russia Trying to Stoke U.S. Racial Tensions Before Election, Officials Say

WASHINGTON — The Russian government has stepped up efforts to inflame racial tensions in the United States as part of its bid to influence November’s presidential election, including trying to incite violence by white supremacist groups and to stoke anger among African-Americans, according to seven American officials briefed on recent intelligence.

Russia’s lead intelligence agency, the S.V.R., has apparently gone beyond 2016 methods of interference, when operatives tried to stoke racial animosity by creating fake Black Lives Matter groups and spreading disinformation to depress black voter turnout. Now, Russia is also trying to influence white supremacist groups, the officials said; they gave few details, but one official said federal investigators are examining how at least one neo-Nazi organization with ties to Russia is funded.

Other Russian efforts, which American intelligence agencies have tracked, involve simply prodding white nationalists to more aggressively spread hate messages and amplifying their invective. Russian operatives are also trying to push black extremist groups toward violence, according to multiple officials, though they did not detail how.

Russia’s more public influence operations, like state-backed news organizations, have continued to push divisive racial narratives, including stories emphasizing allegations of police abuse in the United States and highlighting racism against African-Americans within the military.

[babyblob]

It is going to be another hard night. It is still daylight and protesters are already vandalizing police cars and throwing bottles at police in Chicago. What is going to happen when night comes?