All purpose news and politics thread part VI: This Is Not The Time For Posing

[Spike-X]

Anyone who wins a swing state by 20 points is typically capable of getting the votes of moderate Republicans.

Anyone who would even consider voting for that goddamn Nazi isn't a moderate. They're a fascist in denial.

I don't think DeSantis is guiding the country to genocide.

He's denying literally life-saving health care to a vulnerable, marginalized community. He's doing everything he can to stir up hatred and violence against that community. Does he have to start herding them into railway cars before you'll acknowledge what's going on right in front of your face?

[CaptainEurope]

Two of Donald Trump’s employees moved boxes of papers the day before an early June visit by FBI agents and a prosecutor to the former president’s Florida home to retrieve classified documents in response to a subpoena — timing that investigators have come to view as suspicious and an indication of possible obstruction, according to people familiar with the matter.

Trump and his aides also allegedly carried out a “dress rehearsal” for moving sensitive papers even before his office received the May 2022 subpoena, according to the people familiar with the matter who spoke on the condition of anonymity to describe a sensitive ongoing investigation.

Prosecutors in addition have gathered evidence indicating that Trump at times kept classified documents in his office in a place where they were visible and sometimes showed them to others, these people said.

Big time criming.

Trump workers moved Mar-a-Lago boxes a day before FBI came for documents

[Dalak]

My discussions are on a nonpartisan political forum.

We are hobbyists but this doesn't mean we shouldn't treat one another with respect, or strive to be correct. On this particular message board, we should insist on being held to a higher standard. We like comic books, and follow characters who are supposed to be role models who don't mislead, who make good-faith arguments and who would point out when someone on their side is wrong.

An unfortunate reality of modern politics is that it's largely driven by negative polarization. Instead of making arguments in favor of policies, people go and highlight the flaws of the other side. And this means that if you're on a public forum representing yourself as being on the left, if you're a jerk, it may end up driving people the other way, just like Republican assholes elsewhere drive people to the Democratic party (and there are plenty of discussions about conservative civilians.) This is why it's best to treat the other side the way you want them to treat everyone on your side.

Who are you talking about? I rate Trump on the bottom, but if I prefer someone to him it doesn't mean that person is my top choice.

Though I also am unaware of anyone close to Hitler or even Putin-level evil on the Republican side. And that honestly includes Trump.

Then why would you consider voting for someone who seems very keen on heading in that direction? Do you really hate poor people and minorities that much?

The fact that you're even entertaining the possibility of voting for someone like that absolutely destroys any credibility you might think you have as some kind of 'moderate' Republican. There's no such thing any more. Your party is the party of bigotry and intolerance and hate. You either support that or you don't. And you've just declared that you do. So to hell with you.

To be clear on my views on the Republican presidential primary, I prefer DeSantis to Trump and would consider voting for DeSantis in a general election. I prefer Sununu, Scott, Haley and Hutchinson over DeSantis, but New York is one of the later states, so I'm not sure who is going to be in the race at that point. I might very well vote for DeSantis if his performance in New York would affect Trump's odds of winning the nomination, or send any kind of anti-Trump signal.

I prefer DeSantis to Pence because Pence seems like an intellectual lightweight and too much of a holy-roller.

I kinda figured "never again" referred to genocide. I am against genocide.

Now THIS is a DAMN good question:

If Ron DeSantis Cares So Much About ‘Grooming’ Children, Why is Florida the Capital of Child Beauty Pageants?

Anyone who wins a swing state by 20 points is typically capable of getting the votes of moderate Republicans.

I don't think DeSantis is guiding the country to genocide. This seems like the left-wing version of the most extreme claims against Democrats like Gavin Newsom.

Those aren't moderate Republicans then, because he is SUPER anti-lgbtq. You literally can't be a moderate and tolerate those policies. He doesn't even try to hide it.

Once again...

Anyone trying to compare the nonsense conservatives cook up in their delusions against the left to the outright evil, real, and yes genocidal actions scumbags like DeSantis and the rest of his ilk take is either a total idiot or just lying to everyone's faces.

Mets, your stance on DeSantis shows to me and many others that your refusal to vote for Trump is more about his potty mouth than anything else, considering how often GoP politicians still do what he says & does. You must have ignored the dozens of stories about DeSantis' disregard for the truth, enacting bigotry against anything LGBT the State can send him, his focus on schools and private companies not teaching about the prevalent racism still shown in America, his petty attempts for revenge on anyone & anything that defies him, and the corruption he allows to flourish here in Florida that have been posted in this thread over the years. The LastWeekTonight youtube video shows his extremism in no uncertain terms. He doesn't debate in good faith, he doesn't respect anyone that disagrees with him, and he misleads whenever he can get away with it, and you're willing to vote for him when you wouldn't vote for Trump. Hell, the GoP are demonstrably towing the Putin line amid showing support and admiration for him & other authoritarians across the planet.

We should hold ourselves up to the same standard that we hold the other side to.

We should be careful when enacting laws and policies for multiple reasons. First, if a bad law is passed, it can be exploited by bad people when they get power; the sloppier the law, the easier it gets for them to exploit it. Second, the laws may end up being abused by zealots who have much looser standards than the average voter or even you. Third, a sloppy law will be less likely to pass since it'll be easier for the other side to mobilize their base against it. There may be all sorts of unintended consequences which have their own effects. Finally, there may be a backlash to the laws if sloppiness leads to unpopular penalties. Sometimes waiting for cooler heads to prevail is the right solution, since doing something for the hell of it can always make things worse.

You clearly don't actually care about any of what you said here or you'd apply the same standards to DeSantis and other GoP officials across the country that you apply to posters here, as there have been numerous stories showing the abuse of the sloppy laws DeSantis champions which several other states have copied/are trying to copy.

Anyone who would even consider voting for that goddamn Nazi isn't a moderate. They're a fascist in denial.

He's denying literally life-saving health care to a vulnerable, marginalized community. He's doing everything he can to stir up hatred and violence against that community. Does he have to start herding them into railway cars before you'll acknowledge what's going on right in front of your face?

Considering how many conservatives are wearing/collecting literal Nazi paraphernalia and the lengths he's gone to downplay that and the obvious affect they have on GoP leadership, I'm not sure he'd acknowledge it then.

[Mister Mets]

Anyone who would even consider voting for that goddamn Nazi isn't a moderate. They're a fascist in denial.



He's denying literally life-saving health care to a vulnerable, marginalized community. He's doing everything he can to stir up hatred and violence against that community. Does he have to start herding them into railway cars before you'll acknowledge what's going on right in front of your face?

He's not a Nazi. There seems to be a chasm between his policies and herding minorities into railway cars leading to death camps.

Those aren't moderate Republicans then, because he is SUPER anti-lgbtq. You literally can't be a moderate and tolerate those policies. He doesn't even try to hide it.

What makes his policies go so far that a moderate member of his party should not even consider voting for him (at least against Biden, who is a straightforward Democrat)? That's a pretty high bar.

[CaptainEurope]

He's not a Nazi. There seems to be a chasm between his policies and herding minorities into railway cars leading to death camps.

Don't make me tap the sign.

Auschwitz museum: Important to remember Holocaust ‘did not start from gas chambers’

[Spike-X]

He's not a Nazi. There seems to be a chasm between his policies and herding minorities into railway cars leading to death camps.

Going by history, that 'chasm' is probably about 2-5 years wide. Which is why Obergruppenführer DeSantis doesn't want it taught.

What makes his policies go so far that a moderate member of his party should not even consider voting for him (at least against Biden, who is a straightforward Democrat)? That's a pretty high bar.

We're already well aware of the kind of deplorable actions and policies so-called "moderate" Republicans are willing to overlook, if not support outright, in order to make sure their team is the one in charge. That's how that orange shitgibbon you claim to despise so much ended up in the White House.

[thwhtGuardian]

He's not a Nazi. There seems to be a chasm between his policies and herding minorities into railway cars leading to death camps.



What makes his policies go so far that a moderate member of his party should not even consider voting for him (at least against Biden, who is a straightforward Democrat)? That's a pretty high bar.

All of his policies concerning the LGBTQ community. It's not some obscure thing here.

A moderate Republican is one who fully supports equality for the gay and minority communities and is against marginalizing them and limiting their rights but differs with Democrats on such issues as taxes and social spending.

Ron Desantis does not align with those views. It's very simple.

[CaptainEurope]

The White House and G.O.P. have closed in on a deal to raise the debt ceiling.

Here are the details:

While the deal is yet to be finalized, but negotiators are discussing a compromise that would allow Republicans to point to spending reductions and Democrats to say they had protected against large cuts.

The compromise, if it can be agreed upon and enacted, would raise the government's borrowing limit for two years, past the 2024 election.



More details below

https://twitter.com/CalltoActivism/s...88482334081025

[godisawesome]

What makes his policies go so far that a moderate member of his party should not even consider voting for him (at least against Biden, who is a straightforward Democrat)? That's a pretty high bar.

His policies are Trump’s, and he’s fully invested in Trumpism Minus Trump - as Trumpism has become the governing power and voting bloc of GOP at this time. The only real difference between him and Trump in substance is that he offers it be mildly less of a personal sideshow while still pursuing the same types of cruel but weakening policies Trump pursued.

DeSantis is in no way a moderate in actual policy and substance - he’s merely a moderate in presentation. Like Trump, he enacts persecution of others as the raison d’etre of his politics, uses a weak, regressive approach to international thought, treats sabotage of the education system as a major priority, and supports the most harmful and un-pragmatic aspects of current “conservative” thought regarding business and personal liberty.

His supporters are not “moderate” Republicans… and neither are you. They and you are more “quid pro quo” Republicans, willing to tacitly approve of and allow the same horrible and wasteful abuses of power that Trump does, just as long as a handful of policies that he and Trump both support get taken care of.

Like, I don’t usually read your stuff on this thread, because your posting style isn’t so much deceitful as it is painfully myopic and fantasist - you usually write things that basically go “If my personal selection of a small handful of hard right beliefs get policy support, isn’t it worth the cost of trading away every other policy to hard right ones as long as they’re quieter about it?” and an inability to analyze or empathize with facts that don’t comport with that fantasy, reflected in intellectually vacant and ethically dubious obfuscation and self-deception.

[Tendrin]

Like, I don’t usually read your stuff on this thread, because your posting style isn’t so much deceitful as it is painfully myopic and fantasist - you usually write things that basically go “If my personal selection of a small handful of hard right beliefs get policy support, isn’t it worth the cost of trading away every other policy to hard right ones as long as they’re quieter about it?” and an inability to analyze or empathize with facts that don’t comport with that fantasy, reflected in intellectually vacant and ethically dubious obfuscation and self-deception.

You forgot pedantry.

But I'd argue DeSantis isn't even a moderate in presentation. His campaign announcement was painfully online right-wing radical.

[Vakanai]

Desantis isn't a moderate, he just doesn't throw out insults and name calling like Trump does and actually presents himself in a "normal" politician-type manner. But his interests in politics through what he has said and what he has done all points to the interests and deeds of a committed and determined fascist. The difference between DeSantis and Nazis is this - DeSantis doesn't have the power (yet) to actually push towards the genocide he craves for publicly, and unlike Hitler he doesn't have his party's love and support, Trump does. Just because he doesn't have Hitler-esque power and doesn't have much chance of gaining that power (yet - he'll lose this election, but there's always future elections...) doesn't mean he wouldn't gladly pick up where Hitler left off - especially considering how his "war on woke" targeting the LGBTQ+ community has many parallels with the early days of the Nazis rise to power and first horrid actions, and we all know what that led to. The fact that early part of Germany's history is being repeated in the US should have people concerned it might lead to repeating the rest of it down the road.

To conservatives who don't believe there should be any concern over this, I offer this challenge - slap a Trans Pride Flag sticker on your car or truck and wear a Trans Flag button on your shirt for a month, and see how comfortable you feel around certain loud and aggressive people.

[thwhtGuardian]

In other troubling news the Conservative majority in the Supreme Court just started gutting the EPA

It's starting with the end of protection for wetlands but it won't stop there and they're not even saying that quietly as Clarence Thomas said it out right, "The wetlands are just the beginning of the problems raised by the agencies' assertion of jurisdiction in this case."

[Vakanai]

In other troubling news the Conservative majority in the Supreme Court just started gutting the EPA

It's starting with the end of protection for wetlands but it won't stop there and they're not even saying that quietly as Clarence Thomas said it out right, "The wetlands are just the beginning of the problems raised by the agencies' assertion of jurisdiction in this case."

I'm going to miss Mother Nature when she's gone. Always knew the greed for profits was going to do away with protections for wilderness areas eventually, just always assumed it would come under a Republican administration - turns out they didn't need the White House, they just needed the Court House.

[thwhtGuardian]

I'm going to miss Mother Nature when she's gone. Always knew the greed for profits was going to do away with protections for wilderness areas eventually, just always assumed it would come under a Republican administration - turns out they didn't need the White House, they just needed the Court House.

It'll be okay in blue states as they tend to have their own state laws that were aligned with the EPA's regulations but yeah red states could very well turn into hellscapes. And when that happens the people there will cry, "Why didn't the government protect us?" with out any sense that they are responsible for their plight.

[Malvolio]

Well,yes. The Capitalism that made the US wealthy and powerful explicitly included people as property.

The foundation of our economic system is not one that just had unequal wealth distribution between people, but one that said some are not even people, but property that contributes to the wealth of others. This exploitation did not magically end with the Civil War, and at this point, the upper echelons have had well over a century to perfect disenfranchising and exploiting people without calling it slavery, or even Jim Crow.

Corporations are now legal people, who realistically have a lot more rights and power than your average nobody with their almost symbolic vote.

Well, yes. The U.S. Constitution has been called the greatest document of freedom of all time. Yet it enshrined enslaving a significant portion of the population. So even on our best day, human beings are still saying it's okay for some of us to enslave some of us. What does that say about human nature?