1. #17521
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    Quote Originally Posted by The no face guy View Post
    As a liberal, I am concerned with how liberal governments can maintain power and stay in power, not debating AOC fanboys who are but hurt that her political views don't line up with the mainstream.

    Democrats made gains in the House in 2018 because it was a referendum on a President who swung way too far to the right, and is now out of power because he lost the center of the country than leans Democrat in the popular vote.

    Biden won in 2020 because he was able to mobilize the African American vote, something neither Sanders, or Warren could do during the primaries. African Americans as a whole are moderate voters, and you can not win an election without them, Stacey Abrams, not Cortez gets the final say.

    https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tan...ack-democrats/
    This is half correct. You still lose the election if white voters in MI/WI/PA don’t come back to the Democrat side. That completely guts you regardless of how they perform in GA and those are still the 3 must win states. Likewise Arizona was a state that was mostly won on Hispanic votes in Maricopa and in Nevada they won in areas that has been very responsive to progressive policies.

    It’s a hard election to say “this delivered it”. In the state’s Biden really needed he got the right combinations. But he pretty much underperformed in aggregate. He lost significant minority support outside of a handful of two key states and the House races were a complete disaster.

    It was more of a team effort in 5 key states.
    Last edited by KNIGHT OF THE LAKE; 11-19-2020 at 08:25 AM.

  2. #17522
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    Quote Originally Posted by Revolutionary_Jack View Post
    ...The House of Representatives is a big organization, and a lot of stuff can be done side-by-side...
    Yeah, that's not the way a Trump prosecution is going to go down. There are enough publicity whores on The Hill that too many will want to rush in front of the cameras to be their side's champion on the issue.

  3. #17523
    Extraordinary Member Revolutionary_Jack's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KNIGHT OF THE LAKE View Post
    Likewise Nevada was a state that was mostly won on Hispanic votes in Maricopa in an area that has been very responsive to progressive policies.
    Hmm...Maricopa County is in Arizona, not Nevada.

    And Arizona was won with a big coalition, but it's the Navajos who tipped things decisively in Biden's favor.

    https://www.lawyersgunsmoneyblog.com...ts-won-arizona

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  5. #17525
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    Quote Originally Posted by Revolutionary_Jack View Post
    Hmm...Maricopa County is in Arizona, not Nevada.

    And Arizona was won with a big coalition, but it's the Navajos who tipped things decisively in Biden's favor.

    https://www.lawyersgunsmoneyblog.com...ts-won-arizona
    Yeah I noticed I wrote Nevada, I edited like 5 seconds after

  6. #17526

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    Quote Originally Posted by KNIGHT OF THE LAKE View Post
    This is half correct. You still lose the election if white voters in MI/WI/PA don’t come back to the Democrat side. That completely guts you regardless of how they perform in GA and those are still the 3 must win states. Likewise Arizona was a state that was mostly won on Hispanic votes in Maricopa and in Nevada they won in areas that has been very responsive to progressive policies.

    It’s a hard election to say “this delivered it”. In the state’s Biden really needed he got the right combinations. But he pretty much underperformed in aggregate. He lost significant minority support outside of a handful of two key states and the House races were a complete disaster.

    It was more of a team effort in 5 key states.
    African Americans, alongside the loss of the women's vote for Trump look like they played a key role in Biden securing the three big rust belt states. Clinton wasn't able to get those votes mobilized.

    I'm not sure the white working class can be won back in significant numbers to the Democrats at this point, (Though Biden will try) they've been the net losers of globalization, it's Trump's nationalist policies that appeal to them because they feel protected, not Trump himself, his instability makes him a net minus in the long run.

    Before AOC sneaked into the conversation, the discussion was largely about how Democratic progressive/moderate views didn't affect the outcome of the House of Representatives this election, because both sides were able to fully maximize their voting base in what was an historic turnout of an election.

  7. #17527
    For honor... Madam-Shogun-Assassin's Avatar
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    *Majority of Americans vote for Democrats. Republicans maintain an oversized presence in the government solely b/c of gerrymandering, suppression & disenfranchisement

    * Democratic leadership: We need to be more like Republicans!

  8. #17528
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    Quote Originally Posted by The no face guy View Post
    As a liberal, I am concerned with how liberal governments can maintain power and stay in power, not debating AOC fanboys who are but hurt that her political views don't line up with the mainstream.

    Democrats made gains in the House in 2018 because it was a referendum on a President who swung way too far to the right, and is now out of power because he lost the center of the country than leans Democrat in the popular vote.

    Biden won in 2020 because he was able to mobilize the African American vote, something neither Sanders, or Warren could do during the primaries. African Americans as a whole are moderate voters, and you can not win an election without them, Stacey Abrams, not Cortez gets the final say.

    https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tan...ack-democrats/
    Black boomers are probably moderate voters and true believers. Younger Black voters aren't as monolithic under the "moderate" label. Also, More than anything Black voters are pragmatic, which might comes off as moderate.

  9. #17529
    Astonishing Member PwrdOn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Madam-Shogun-Assassin View Post
    Black boomers are probably moderate voters and true believers. Younger Black voters aren't as monolithic under the "moderate" label. Also, More than anything Black voters are pragmatic, which might comes off as moderate.
    If we had a multi-party system, most likely there would be a black party and a Latino party and an assortment of other minor parties that are primarily concerned about issues relevant to their own communities and are mostly agnostic on the general left vs. right conflict, and will try to position themselves as swing blocs on important votes to try and maximize their leverage. And frankly, I feel like we are headed in that direction anyway despite the fact that our electoral system makes it hard for third parties, because this idea of having a big tent Democratic party that is meant to include everyone who's not a rabid white nationalist hasn't actually worked in terms of delivering policies that benefit any of its constituent blocs. Black people right now are forced to vote for Democrats because the Republicans are openly hostile towards them, but their interests don't really align with those of suburban moderates or progressives, and being a captive audience means that the party will always push their issues to the backburner to try and appeal more to white swing voters, who tend to be hostile to anything that hints at radical change.

  10. #17530
    Extraordinary Member Malvolio's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Madam-Shogun-Assassin View Post
    *Majority of Americans vote for Democrats. Republicans maintain an oversized presence in the government solely b/c of gerrymandering, suppression & disenfranchisement

    * Democratic leadership: We need to be more like Republicans!
    I don't want Democrats to be more like Republicans in policy, but I wouldn't mind them being more like Republicans in strategy. Politics is a dirty game, and you'll usually lose if you refuse to get your hands dirty.
    Watching television is not an activity.

  11. #17531
    Formerly Blackdragon6 Emperor-of-Dragons's Avatar
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    There are black progressives tho, my theory regarding the democratic party is thus; After the Southern Strategy where republicans courted white racists to their side, democrats just sort of failed to respond.

    Republicans are so reprehensible that, for many, democrats are the party of default. They've never really tried to move in a direction to oppose republicans, they just let out one massive shrug as they watched their base melt away. Now they have all this diversity but have no idea what to do about it.

    A lot of young, active democrats actively loath the party. It's a bit funny and sad to watch AOC attack the democratic party despite "technically" being a part of it, but it makes an unfortunate amount of sense. Anyone not part of the Old Democrats needs to take the party over. It's so far to the right that the only thing distinguishing them from republicans is that they aren't *literal* fascists.

  12. #17532
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    I wonder if these election fraud donations trump is asking for is just to fleece more money from his supporters one last time.

  13. #17533
    Fighting Injustice on CBR SUPERECWFAN1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by shooshoomanjoe View Post
    I wonder if these election fraud donations trump is asking for is just to fleece more money from his supporters one last time.
    Well according to reports Rudy is banking $20 grand a day. So you know some of that is going to pay him. lol
    "The story so far: As usual, Ginger and I are engaged in our quest to find out what the hell is going on and save humanity from my nemesis, some bastard who is presumably responsible." - Sir Digby Chicken Caesar.

  14. #17534
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    Quote Originally Posted by Emperor-of-Dragons View Post
    There are black progressives tho, my theory regarding the democratic party is thus; After the Southern Strategy where republicans courted white racists to their side, democrats just sort of failed to respond.

    Republicans are so reprehensible that, for many, democrats are the party of default. They've never really tried to move in a direction to oppose republicans, they just let out one massive shrug as they watched their base melt away. Now they have all this diversity but have no idea what to do about it.

    A lot of young, active democrats actively loath the party. It's a bit funny and sad to watch AOC attack the democratic party despite "technically" being a part of it, but it makes an unfortunate amount of sense. Anyone not part of the Old Democrats needs to take the party over. It's so far to the right that the only thing distinguishing them from republicans is that they aren't *literal* fascists.
    The Democratic Party is neither too far left nor is it too far right, it is where it needs to be at the time it is needed. Just as false assumptions are made that any one voting block [Male, female, Black, White, Hispanic, Asian, etc.] is monolithic, so too is it a false assumption that the Democratic Party is monolithic or worse, that it is inflexible.

    Assuming she stays in office, in 15-20 years or so, AOC and her Crew will be the leaders of the Democratic Party, then the next, younger generation will be complaining that they are establishment and that the party is monolithic and inflexible.

    Change happens from within and it happens gradually and it happens in response to the times and the needs and circumstances.
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  15. #17535
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    Quote Originally Posted by SUPERECWFAN1 View Post
    Well according to reports Rudy is banking $20 grand a day. So you know some of that is going to pay him. lol
    I dunno about that, keep in mind he's billing Donald "Doesn't Pay For Anything" Trump

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