1. #34681
    Astonishing Member Panfoot's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2015
    Posts
    2,335

    Default

    It doesn't matter that you aren't going to go out and attack a transwoman, someone else might(as that has happened since transpeople have suffer from a disproportional high rate of violence), the bigger issue is the continued othering of a minority, the more Chappelle "jokes" we get, the easier it is for people to generalize transpeople into some other negative box like other minorities have dealt with in the past, it's much easier to discriminate against someone if you can just picture them in your mind as some sort of negative caricature (IE like Trump did with Mexican people early on in his campaign). This is already a minority that faces disproportional violence, a very high suicide rate, and are still dealing with equal rights issues in the US(remember the bathroom bill from years ago? It didn't go away when it was defeated, it's come back in other states and is actually getting passed).

    Nobody is asking you to to become the next Harvey Milk, they are literally just asking when a minority feels like they are being unfairly attacked, to not immediately come to the defense of the attacker. Your reaction to being called out on this by saying that it "doesn't endear me to their cause" is quite telling though.

  2. #34682
    Astonishing Member Panfoot's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2015
    Posts
    2,335

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by JackDaw View Post
    So itís okay to rip off an artist, musician, or writer if you dislike some of their views?
    Used albums, DVDs, and books still exist.

  3. #34683
    Invincible Member numberthirty's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Posts
    21,940

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Hellion View Post
    While I know that renown and popular personages like Chappelle and Rowling can influence people with their words/opinions, I think the bigger problem here is how easily influenced a lot of people are. Your point about Chappelle's trans comments is valid. But I watched that special, I heard what he said. I'm hardly going to pose a danger to a trans woman of color should I encounter such a person when I'm out on the town. I harbor no malice at all towards that group of people, and Chappelle's bit didn't instill any malice into me. Maybe more people should have my mental fortitude against "influencers."

    It's not that I don't care about transphobia. It's just that it's not one of the end-all, be-all issues that I devote my time and energy towards. Those would be poverty, lack of social mobility, and the mental health crisis that is at least informed by the other two things that has caused 9 teen suicides in my community over the past 18 months. Those are umbrella issues that aren't exclusive to the trans community, and I focus on them because that's where I can do the most good in my day-to-day. The fact that I get nothing but hostility for not being 100% in the trans rights camp does nothing to endear me to their cause.
    (Without trying to get too judgemental...)

    If a group of people are openly being assaulted and stomped in the street with almost zero consequences?

    Nothing should have to endear you to their cause. They are just trying to get to the level where they can go on with their lives being able to walk down the street unharmed.

    Someone putting their own feathers being ruffled over supporting that very basic level of "Rights..." is just hard to wrap my mind around.

  4. #34684

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by JackDaw View Post
    So itís okay to rip off an artist, musician, or writer if you dislike some of their views?
    "Some of their views" is a no.

    This instance we're talking about "borderline hate speech", so I wouldn't feel too bad if somebody views a borrowed DVD from someone else and Rowling or Chapelle don't get the green for it.

    In any aspect, if people have reprehensible and intolerant views, you boycott them. Whatever it takes to make sure they don't profit while using their platform for hate.


    I'd view someone partaking getting the product for free with the same lack of admonishment as I would someone protesting civil rights who "broke the law" in doing that. It would be "good trouble", really.
    X-Books Forum Mutant Tracker/FAQ- Updated every Tuesday.

  5. #34685
    Ultimate Member Tendrin's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Posts
    11,255

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Panfoot View Post
    It doesn't matter that you aren't going to go out and attack a transwoman, someone else might(as that has happened since transpeople have suffer from a disproportional high rate of violence), the bigger issue is the continued othering of a minority, the more Chappelle "jokes" we get, the easier it is for people to generalize transpeople into some other negative box like other minorities have dealt with in the past, it's much easier to discriminate against someone if you can just picture them in your mind as some sort of negative caricature (IE like Trump did with Mexican people early on in his campaign). This is already a minority that faces disproportional violence, a very high suicide rate, and are still dealing with equal rights issues in the US(remember the bathroom bill from years ago? It didn't go away when it was defeated, it's come back in other states and is actually getting passed).

    Nobody is asking you to to become the next Harvey Milk, they are literally just asking when a minority feels like they are being unfairly attacked, to not immediately come to the defense of the attacker. Your reaction to being called out on this by saying that it "doesn't endear me to their cause" is quite telling though.
    Ayep. /10char

  6. #34686
    Astonishing Member JackDaw's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Posts
    3,449

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by worstblogever View Post
    "Some of their views" is a no.

    This instance we're talking about "borderline hate speech", so I wouldn't feel too bad if somebody views a borrowed DVD from someone else and Rowling or Chapelle don't get the green for it.

    In any aspect, if people have reprehensible and intolerant views, you boycott them. Whatever it takes to make sure they don't profit while using their platform for hate.


    I'd view someone partaking getting the product for free with the same lack of admonishment as I would someone protesting civil rights who "broke the law" in doing that. It would be "good trouble", really.
    I’ll have a brood on this…I can sort of see the logic of it.

    I think I’ll probably continue doing what I do now…simply don’t access the material if I find the “originator” exceptionally repugnant.

    But must admit I avoid finding out the views of favourite writers on unrelated subjects!

  7. #34687
    Ultimate Member Tendrin's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Posts
    11,255

    Default

    Lesbian, gay, bisexual, transgender, queer, and questioning (LGBTQ) students are more than four times as likely to attempt suicide compared to their straight and cisgender peers (Johns et al., 2019; Johns et al., 2020). Negative treatment by others, such as bullying, is a strong and consistent risk factor for youth suicide (Koyanagi et al., 2019), and LGBTQ youth experience bullying at significantly greater rates than their straight and cisgender peers (Reisner et al., 2015; Webb et al., 2021). A recent study revealed that between 2011–2019, an average of 20% of U.S. high school students reported in-person bullying and 15% reported electronic bullying, with no significant changes in prevalence rates over time (Li et al., 2020). Affirming schools may be protective of suicide risk not only by providing direct identity support to LGBTQ youth but also by creating an environment where LGBTQ youth are less likely to experience bullying. Using data from The Trevor Project’s 2021 National Survey on LGBTQ Youth Mental Health, this brief explores bullying among LGBTQ middle and high school students including how experiences of bullying are associated with suicide risk and LGBTQ-affirming schools.
    https://www.thetrevorproject.org/***...g-lgbtq-youth/

  8. #34688
    Amazing Member Adam Allen's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2017
    Location
    Minneapolis, MN
    Posts
    635

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Panfoot View Post
    It doesn't matter that you aren't going to go out and attack a transwoman, someone else might(as that has happened since transpeople have suffer from a disproportional high rate of violence), the bigger issue is the continued othering of a minority, the more Chappelle "jokes" we get, the easier it is for people to generalize transpeople into some other negative box like other minorities have dealt with in the past, it's much easier to discriminate against someone if you can just picture them in your mind as some sort of negative caricature (IE like Trump did with Mexican people early on in his campaign). This is already a minority that faces disproportional violence, a very high suicide rate, and are still dealing with equal rights issues in the US(remember the bathroom bill from years ago? It didn't go away when it was defeated, it's come back in other states and is actually getting passed).

    Nobody is asking you to to become the next Harvey Milk, they are literally just asking when a minority feels like they are being unfairly attacked, to not immediately come to the defense of the attacker. Your reaction to being called out on this by saying that it "doesn't endear me to their cause" is quite telling though.
    Seriously.

    Personally, I'm not even asking anyone to boycott anything. Watch what you want, read what you want, like what you want, whatever.

    But look, Dave spent the majority of his special talking about some people who dared to think some of his jokes were not funny. Honestly, where is the humor in that?

    He couldn't just think to himself, "Hey, humor is subjective, not everybody laughs at everything, it's all good!" and move on to something else?

    Apparently not, because he's been going on about this for a while. I think, in this special, he said he first got flack about some comments about trans folk in 2005. 2005. Sixteen years ago, and he's still talking about it? Has devoted a good chunk of all of his Netflix shows to talking about it? For fuck's sake, where's his sense of humor? Why couldn't he just let it go?

    Just saying, I don't think the issue is him being too "edgy", or others not having a sense of humor. There's a whole world of things he could have chosen to talk about, and I would have loved to laugh along with him about them. Unfortunately, he seemed more interested in using his massive audience to talk about how his feelings were hurt, that some people don't like some things he's said.

    I mean, he's entitled to his feelings, just like we all are. But being mad that trans folk don't think you're funny -- sorry, that's just not very funny.
    Be kind to me, or treat me mean
    I'll make the most of it, I'm an extraordinary machine

  9. #34689
    Extraordinary Member babyblob's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2018
    Location
    New Richmond Ohio
    Posts
    5,752

    Default

    The thing is a boycott will really I think be the only thing that works. Dave clearly does not care. Every time he is called out for his hate speech he doubles down, laughs it off and calls it part of his bit. So he aint going to change. Companies do not care about some one being outraged at them. The world we live in it happens all the time. But they care about the bottom line and thier profits. it is not enough for people to be upset and say "Hey take Chappelle off the air." because they will not. He makes them money and I am sure people have signed up just to watch his special and see what the anger is about.

    How many Gay or trans people watch Netflix? I do. All my friends who are gay do as well. As do my friends who say they support the gay and Trans community. I am pretty sure a lot of gay and Trans watch Netflix. So instead of saying "Take Chappelle off the air." They need to say "Take him off the air. We are going to cancel our membership until you do." if they lose even 10 percent of their membership they will take notice. And they may at the end of the day do something. They will listen to the bank more then random angry people on a message board or on Twitter.

    Lots of people called for a boycott of Twitter and Face book till they got rid of Trump and cracked down on the platforms that gave hate speech a place to post. Yet I really havnt heard the same calls against Netflix which is odd.
    Last edited by babyblob; 10-17-2021 at 10:52 AM.
    Favorite teams. Alpha Flight, Avengers, Fantastic Four, West Coast Avengers, Justice Society of America, Legion of Superheroes.

  10. #34690
    Old school comic book fan WestPhillyPunisher's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Location
    Philadelphia, PA
    Posts
    25,819

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Allen View Post
    Seriously.

    Personally, I'm not even asking anyone to boycott anything. Watch what you want, read what you want, like what you want, whatever.

    But look, Dave spent the majority of his special talking about some people who dared to think some of his jokes were not funny. Honestly, where is the humor in that?

    He couldn't just think to himself, "Hey, humor is subjective, not everybody laughs at everything, it's all good!" and move on to something else?

    Apparently not, because he's been going on about this for a while. I think, in this special, he said he first got flack about some comments about trans folk in 2005. 2005. Sixteen years ago, and he's still talking about it? Has devoted a good chunk of all of his Netflix shows to talking about it? For fuck's sake, where's his sense of humor? Why couldn't he just let it go?

    Just saying, I don't think the issue is him being too "edgy", or others not having a sense of humor. There's a whole world of things he could have chosen to talk about, and I would have loved to laugh along with him about them. Unfortunately, he seemed more interested in using his massive audience to talk about how his feelings were hurt, that some people don't like some things he's said.

    I mean, he's entitled to his feelings, just like we all are. But being mad that trans folk don't think you're funny -- sorry, that's just not very funny.
    In an offhanded way, Chappelle seems like Donald Trump: thin skinned and unable/unwilling to let go of slights, be they real or imagined. Because his humor was challenged by someone who didn't find what he had to say as funny, Chappelle got his back up and is hellbent on harping on/making fun of/insulting transpeople until he's gotten his pound of flesh, regardless of how long it takes. That's just my opinion.
    Avatar: Here's to the late, great Steve Dillon. Best. Punisher. Artist. EVER!

  11. #34691
    Astonishing Member mathew101281's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Posts
    2,964

    Default

    Ladies and gentlemen I present to you that creepy Black mirror episode with the robot dogs, but in real life.

  12. #34692
    Ultimate Member Malvolio's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2014
    Location
    Freeville, NY
    Posts
    10,375

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by babyblob View Post
    The thing is a boycott will really I think be the only thing that works. Dave clearly does not care. Every time he is called out for his hate speech he doubles down, laughs it off and calls it part of his bit. So he aint going to change. Companies do not care about some one being outraged at them. The world we live in it happens all the time. But they care about the bottom line and thier profits. it is not enough for people to be upset and say "Hey take Chappelle off the air." because they will not. He makes them money and I am sure people have signed up just to watch his special and see what the anger is about.

    How many Gay or trans people watch Netflix? I do. All my friends who are gay do as well. As do my friends who say they support the gay and Trans community. I am pretty sure a lot of gay and Trans watch Netflix. So instead of saying "Take Chappelle off the air." They need to say "Take him off the air. We are going to cancel our membership until you do." if they lose even 10 percent of their membership they will take notice. And they may at the end of the day do something. They will listen to the bank more then random angry people on a message board or on Twitter.

    Lots of people called for a boycott of Twitter and Face book till they got rid of Trump and cracked down on the platforms that gave hate speech a place to post. Yet I really havnt heard the same calls against Netflix which is odd.
    People don't want to cancel all the other programming that they enjoy on Netflix in order to cancel Dave Chappelle. If his show were still on Comedy Central, people could boycott their sponsors, but still watch other programs on the channel. It's the same reason why Bill Maher got canceled from ABC, but doesn't get canceled from HBO.
    Watching television is not an activity.

  13. #34693
    Old school comic book fan WestPhillyPunisher's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Location
    Philadelphia, PA
    Posts
    25,819

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by mathew101281 View Post
    Ladies and gentlemen I present to you that creepy Black mirror episode with the robot dogs, but in real life.
    Rover haz a rod! Modern technology on the march!
    Avatar: Here's to the late, great Steve Dillon. Best. Punisher. Artist. EVER!

  14. #34694
    Ultimate Member Mister Mets's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Posts
    14,197

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Panfoot View Post
    This, so much, I mean shit Chapelle is bragging about being "cancelled", he'll just retire for a couple of years until he gets bored again/needs another 20 million dollars.
    The issue with cancel culture isn't about someone like Chapelle who is in a relatively secure position (he's a wealthy man with multiple platform to reach his plans, who doesn't need to collaborate with anyone in particular) and unlikely to be affected by the people advocating for him to lose his livelihood. The concerns are more about people who do not have that level of power, and face professional penalties for absurd situations.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hellion View Post
    As the one who started the Dave Chappelle line of discussion a few pages back, I'll answer with "I'm okay with comedy."

    What a person considers funny or not, and what crossed lines are too far for them, will vary. I happen to find humor in just about anything, and usually that's just a coping mechanism for dealing with existing in a world that, to me, is utterly ridiculous. And if I don't laugh, the only other alternatives are to be depressed or to reach a level of anger that is exhausting and does nothing for anyone around me. Sure, just about all the comedians I enjoy have some jokes or bits that I find bothersome, but is that cause for me to "cancel" them? They also have plenty of jokes that make me laugh, and in the world we live in today, I'm not about to limit my opportunities for laughter.

    In my opinion, I thought Chappelle's trans material in his new special was more directed at insulting the woke Twitter mob that doesn't seem to distinguish between genuine Big Bad threats and their own allies rather than punching down at trans individuals. Some responses on here seem to underline my point about the mob, and I'm sure this post will cause me to get torn a new arsehole by some posters on this thread.

    I support most liberal social causes and I vote Democrat 90% of the time at this point (the 10% is trying to primary out or vote against the more harmful of Republican candidates here in Montana). But because I enjoy the creative output of Dave Chappelle and J.K. Rowling and I refuse to type "folx" instead of "folks" because the former just looks ridiculous and the latter is not and has never been an inherently gender-exclusive word, I guess that makes me okay with transphobia. I guess that makes me a transphobe. Jesus Christ.
    It seems that Chappelle's target is scolds, rather than trans individuals.

    Quote Originally Posted by Panfoot View Post
    Used albums, DVDs, and books still exist.
    These are a limited way to get a product without rewarding an artist. It often helps the artist if you buy something used, lowering the overall supply, which may lead to new printings of their work.
    Sincerely,
    Thomas Mets

  15. #34695
    Extraordinary Member babyblob's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2018
    Location
    New Richmond Ohio
    Posts
    5,752

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Malvolio View Post
    People don't want to cancel all the other programming that they enjoy on Netflix in order to cancel Dave Chappelle. If his show were still on Comedy Central, people could boycott their sponsors, but still watch other programs on the channel. It's the same reason why Bill Maher got canceled from ABC, but doesn't get canceled from HBO.
    Then to be honest there will not be any change. Netflix I very much doubt is going to cancel Chappelle ny time soon. I see it going the Chappelle saying he is taking time off. but Netflix will not remove his current special.
    Favorite teams. Alpha Flight, Avengers, Fantastic Four, West Coast Avengers, Justice Society of America, Legion of Superheroes.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •