All purpose news and politics thread part VI: This Is Not The Time For Posing

[Kirby101]

Russia was as much responsible for the defeat of Hitler as America was.

Japan on the other hand was mostly us.

[Revolutionary_Jack]

I'm not quite sure why Newsom is getting such bad press.

The huffpost article cited above explains why fairly well.

The meltdown in California has been more gradual. A month after Cuomo released his coronavirus book, an embarrassed Newsom was apologizing for attending a lobbyist’s birthday party at the posh French Laundry restaurant, even as he was telling Californians to avoid gatherings.

The restaurant scandal came as California’s image as a model of COVID response began to fade. Rising cases and shrinking capacity at hospitals prompted Newsom to reinstate stay-at-home orders between Thanksgiving and Christmas. Republicans had circulated recall petitions against Newsom months before, complaining about his handling of homelessness and the economy, but they shifted to include his COVID-19 response in their complaints and began racking up signatures.

In January, Newsom abruptly lifted the stay-at-home orders, sparking accusations he was abandoning science. He was then forced to retool the state’s vaccine distribution system. Now the state’s coronavirus numbers are dropping. His job approval rating has also.

Stutzman said Newsom is suffering for failing to provide the smooth, efficient government he promised when elected. But part of his fall, and Cuomo’s, was inevitable because they are no longer being compared to Trump and his often hands-off approach to the virus response.

“Any of these Democratic governors are going to come off these initial highs they got that were better than Republican governors,” Stutzman, a Republican, argued. “Democrats across the country got a false boost out of this because of Trump, but when it all nets out it looks the same.”

Newsom is basically achieving peak centrism...with Republicans to the right of him, backed by Silicon Valley tech barons, wanting to remove him so they can prolong their oligarchy, while the Left-Democrats and others are taking him to task for being a hypocrite and a coward, throwing people under the bus all for the sake of "electability" (which is a dead end since he's obviously going to be primaried anyway). These early reopenings in California at a time when LA had to lower its pollution control rules because of the crematoria clocking overtime with human remains smoke...is just cowardly.

To anyone wondering what Kimberly Guilfoyle ever saw in him, or he in her...this is your answer.

World War 2 was almost more of a war against the left and various social movements it has caused during that time.

The Nazis were fiercly anti-communist and anti-leftist but it was also German Supremacist, which meant that it declared war on and fought the British and French Empires, and to do so, Hitler was willing to sign a pact with USSR, and Stalin signed that to buy additional time to stave an invasion. So no, World War 2 wasn't a simplistic war against the left, especially since so many conservatives of various stripes were important in the French Resistance, chief among them Charles de Gaulle who issues a defiant call for resistance at a time when French Communists toeing the party line from Moscow kept their mouths shut.

Conservatives are more than capable of fighting and killing each other out of nationalism or racism. World War 1 was a battle between various authoritarian and autocratic and imperialist regimes on both sides. The British and French Empires were allied to Tsarist Russia which was by every concievable metric a far worse government and place to live in than Imperial Germany. USA when it entered the war was led by an extremely white supremacist President of the United States who oversaw and extended the nadir of race relations.

If it wasn't for America we could very well be living currently in some type of communist or socialist type society

Hahaha...no.

USSR and 20th Century Communist states largely came to power in declining empires (Russia, China) as well as backward states like Vietnam and Cuba looking to modernize fast to protect itself from imperialism. If not USA, the British Empire and the French Empire and the Japanese Empire would be there to stamp out Communism, and many of them did stamp out communism often without support from, and in opposition to America.

It tends to be forgotten that FDR's call for decolonization which included independence for Vietnam and Algeria was outright rejected by the French after World War 2, and DeGaulle and others continued to advocate holding on to these regimes. Had the French got on board with their enlightened American overlords then, we could have avoided the Vietnam War entirely, the Algerian crisis of terrorism that happened later. Likewise, Eisenhower refused to intevene during the Suez Crisis to bail out the French and British Empires, and that was a Republican conservative refusing to come and help an ally governed by a Conservative British PM (Anthony Eden).

So this is a very simplistic look at Cold War politics, also World War 2 politics...and for that matter politics in sum.

[RisingForce]

Um.... Hitler may have thrown socialists into concentration camps and attacked Russia, but he also murdered gays, Romani and Sinti people, Jews and more, and attacking France, England, the Netherlands and Belgium was at least as important to him as Russia.


Your view of what WW 2 was is... odd.

I was saying that it wasn't really a clear case of "Axis powers versus allied powers" there were numerous social plights and prevailing leftist movements in and around the time of WW2 and then some time afterwards, and likewise the resulting cold war between the Soviet Union and America was quite notorious as well.

Germany also considered themselves socialist, wore arm bands just like many socialist movements had in the past, some of the Nazis had black and red uniforms which were colors often combined and had come associate to socialism and Marxism in general, the Nazis considered themselves a Socialist party, originated from the "National Workers socialist party" and likewise as well Mussolini was a socialist previously to becoming the Prime minister of Italy. "Red armbands were a status symbol of the radical Red Guards during the frantic and deadly 1966-1976 Cultural Revolution when youngsters purged intellectuals, officials and other politically condemned groups. ... On an ordinary day in the capital, red armbands are still common, as they are in the countryside"

Likewise the uniforms in general the Nazis wore were actually based on and symbolized workers uniforms quite interestingly enough.

There was also the war between Europe, Poland and the Soviet Union not too long prior and likewise in general I do not think the U.S.S.R were outright considered huge allies of the Western powers. There were many social movements in Germany, Italy and Japan at the time which eventually somehow transformed into the Nazi parties, and not to mention the whole while Germany had a non-aggression treaty with Russia during 1939, and shared a secret airforce and military base between them and Russia.

It was all because of leftist social movements, and then afterwards they were routinely squelched by Western forces around the globe, likewise the peasant communist movement in Italy prior to WW2 had subsisted and continued afterwards and it took the combined forces of Britain, Germany and America to apparently "stop" them, whatever that meant.

Wars were fought for completely different reasons prior to WW2, and then afterwards that all changed and what you see is this on going conflict seemingly between the left and right side of the political spectrum it seems like.

[Kirby101]

What WWII enabled Russia to do is keep the countries it's troops occupied. America had no taste for another devastating war. Without the war, Russia would have most likely stayed within it's borders and exerted influence over eastern Europe without the outright control it was able to get after WWII. It would have been a very different map of Europe. Of course many other things would be different as well.

[CaptainEurope]

Sorry, I always stop reading when I see somebody accused of "Centrism".

The numbers in California are not as bad as in 24 other states, mostly run by Republicans.

[Tendrin]

I was saying that it wasn't really a clear case of "Axis powers versus allied powers" there were numerous social plights and prevailing leftist movements in and around the time of WW2 and then some time afterwards, and likewise the resulting cold war between the Soviet Union and America was quite notorious as well.

Pretty sure it was, in fact, a clear case of the Axis Powers versus the Allied Powers.

Germany also considered themselves socialist, wore arm bands just like many socialist movements had in the past, some of the Nazis had black and red uniforms which were colors often combined and had come associate to socialism and Marxism in general

This was a deliberate choice on Hitler's part but those colors meant different things to him and he elaborated on this at length.

the Nazis considered themselves a Socialist party, originated from the "National Workers socialist party"

Some of them believed the 'socialist' part in the title. They were called Strasserites and they were very wrong. Why do people keep falling for this bit of political propaganda? It's a hundred years old at this point. The 'socialist' party of the NDSAP was a entirely a ploy.

and likewise as well Mussolini was a socialist previously to becoming the Prime minister of Italy. "Red armbands were a status symbol of the radical Red Guards during the frantic and deadly 1966-1976 Cultural Revolution when youngsters purged intellectuals, officials and other politically condemned groups. ... On an ordinary day in the capital, red armbands are still common, as they are in the countryside"

Mussolini loudly rejected his socialist views and declared his opposition to bolshevism.

Likewise the uniforms in general the Nazis wore were actually based on and symbolized workers uniforms quite interestingly enough.

Uhh....

There were many social movements in Germany, Italy and Japan at the time which eventually somehow transformed into the Nazi parties, and not to mention the whole while Germany had a non-aggression treaty with Russia during 1939, and shared a secret airforce and military base between them and Russia.

This is incredibly inaccurate. The Nazis never enjoyed broad support, the parties did not 'transform' into the nazi party. Hitler banned and murdered the socialists and communists.

It was all because of leftist social movements, and then afterwards they were routinely squelched by Western forces around the globe, likewise the peasant communist movement in Italy prior to WW2 had subsisted and continued afterwards and it took the combined forces of Britain, Germany and America to apparently "stop" them, whatever that meant.

No. No, it was not. This is utterly wrong.

Wars were fought for completely different reasons prior to WW2, and then afterwards that all changed and what you see is this on going conflict seemingly between the left and right side of the political spectrum it seems like

I'm not even sure where you could draw this as a conclusion. Anyway, blaming the Left for WW2 is just absurd, not to mention disgusting. The Nazis were not a left wing party by any stretch of the imagination. You have much to learn.

[RisingForce]

Pretty sure it was, in fact, a clear case of the Axis Powers versus the Allied Powers.



This was a deliberate choice on Hitler's part but those colors meant different things to him and he elaborated on this at length.



Some of them believed the 'socialist' part in the title. They were called Strasserites and they were very wrong. Why do people keep falling for this bit of political propaganda? It's a hundred years old at this point. The 'socialist' party of the NDSAP was a entirely a ploy.



Mussolini loudly rejected his socialist views and declared his opposition to bolshevism.


Uhh....


This is incredibly inaccurate. The Nazis never enjoyed broad support, the parties did not 'transform' into the nazi party. Hitler banned and murdered the socialists and communists.


No. No, it was not. This is utterly wrong.



I'm not even sure where you could draw this as a conclusion. Anyway, blaming the Left for WW2 is just absurd, not to mention disgusting. The Nazis were not a left wing party by any stretch of the imagination. You have much to learn.

Ah yes, about Western imperial colonial oppression it would seem, I am learning increasingly every day.

It is not uncommon for communism or socialist regimes to murder it's dissidents or whom so whatever reason, undesirable citizens. This has happened with China and Russia, it is not only unique to Germany. They basically felt they had established a socialist regime and afterwards if you did not accept the parties mandates and terms then they basically murdered dissenters whatever their alliances or loyalties lay.

It's almost not really worth arguing and almost simply becomes a part of some decisive tactic to deride or waste time and is simply a case of semantics when arguing what really is "socialist" what the Nazi party could adequately be termed or defined as correctly.

I often hear that the Nazi party was basically a meeting and combination of the right and left wing politics, and any attempts to understand or define after that or not really necessary. Hitler basically explains and says that he considers himself a socialist in his memoir or book that he wrote as well. It is just not really worth arguing.

Also,
Black Nazis
https://d1w7fb2mkkr3kw.cloudfront.ne...1453812693.jpg
Antifa flag, red and black

[RisingForce]

It's supposed to just be the opposite of red and white I am sure, the "crusaders" lol.

It has numerous connotations and meaning I suppose, you don't really want to point out that the nazis likewise wore red and black uniforms because it would probably ruin socialism and the colors altogether. They have some long standing historical associates as well, which I suppose, you probably have to figure out and may or may not altogether be worth pointing out.

[Kirby101]

Do you somehow think Red and Black signify anything?

Russian Flag:



American Flag:



The same colors, meaning nothing.

[RisingForce]

Trosky's armoured train and on board with him his red 100 guard.

[Tendrin]

Ah yes, about Western imperial colonial oppression it would seem, I am learning increasingly every day.

Or, you know, territorial aggression to build a greater Germany, a greater Japan.

It is not uncommon for communism or socialist regimes to murder it's dissidents or whom so whatever reason, undesirable citizens. This has happened with China and Russia, it is not only unique to Germany. They basically felt they had established a socialist regime and afterwards if you did not accept the parties mandates and terms then they basically murdered dissenters whatever their alliances or loyalties lay.

They did not feel they had established a 'socialist' regime. Hitler hated Bolshevism, which is what he labelled socialists. Arguing 'well, commie regimes kill their own people all the time', is not the own you think it is from reading entirely too many right-wing sources looking to escape the inescapable blame and fact that Naziism, and fascism writ large, are right-wing phenomenons.

It's almost not really worth arguing and almost simply becomes a part of some decisive tactic to deride or waste time and is simply a case of semantics when arguing what really is "socialist" what the Nazi party could adequately be termed or defined as correctly.

Ah, yes. 'It's not worth arguing'. Here we go.

I often hear that the Nazi party was basically a meeting and combination of the right and left wing politics, and any attempts to understand or define after that or not really necessary.

Horseshoe theory was real, but one tactic engaged in by fascists is trying to co-opt the more authoritarian leaning axis of the left-wing. They can have some success at this through economic nationalism and populism.

Hitler basically explains and says that he considers himself a socialist in his memoir or book that he wrote as well. It is just not really worth arguing. [/QUOTE]

You've got no idea what you're talking about, so it is.

Here's Hitler on his 'socialism'.

“Socialism is the science of dealing with the common wealth. Communism is not Socialism. Marxism is not Socialism. The Marxians have stolen the term and confused its meaning. I shall take Socialism away from the Socialists.

Socialism, unlike Marxism, does not repudiate private property. Unlike Marxism, it involves no negation of personality, and unlike Marxism, it is patriotic... We are not internationalists. Our socialism is national. We demand the fulfillment of the just claims of the productive classes by the state on the basis of race solidarity. To us state and race are one.”

Hitler was a fascist. He used the name 'socialism' to draw support, then governed as a hard-line conservative authoritarian who murdered the trade unionists and empowered capital to the greatest extent possible. Capitalists loved the guy. He redefined socialism to suit him and did not govern as a socialist. You're pretty gleefully falling for one hundred year old talking points because it suits your 'blame the left' talking points.

Also,
Black Nazis
[url]https://d1w7fb2mkkr3kw.cloudfront.net/assets/images/book/lrg/9781/4538/9781453812693.jpg[/url

]

uhhh....

Good lord.

[babyblob]

Once Rising Stars, Cuomo And Newsom Sink By Their Own Failings

Andrew Cuomo of New York and Gavin Newsom of California are embroiled in distinct political woes for their handling of the COVID-19 pandemic.

I wonder when they are going to take back his emmy.

[Jack Dracula]

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/polit...?ocid=msedgntp

Trump is planning his revenge tour. It's also reported that he will speak at CPAC in Orlando next weekend. It'll be interesting to see who will and won't show up. I expect Q, Oathkeepers and Proud Proudboys will all be in attendance.

Is there anything more Conseratives could do to demonstrate they have no remorse for the people and officers who died in the Capitol riot than to invite Trump to speak in public again? These fuckers have no shame at all.

[RisingForce]

Or, you know, territorial aggression to build a greater Germany, a greater Japan.



They did not feel they had established a 'socialist' regime. Hitler hated Bolshevism, which is what he labelled socialists. Arguing 'well, commie regimes kill their own people all the time', is not the own you think it is from reading entirely too many right-wing sources looking to escape the inescapable blame and fact that Naziism, and fascism writ large, are right-wing phenomenons.



Ah, yes. 'It's not worth arguing'. Here we go.





Horseshoe theory was real, but one tactic engaged in by fascists is trying to co-opt the more authoritarian leaning axis of the left-wing. They can have some success at this through economic nationalism and populism.

Hitler basically explains and says that he considers himself a socialist in his memoir or book that he wrote as well. It is just not really worth arguing.

You've got no idea what you're talking about, so it is.

Here's Hitler on his 'socialism'.



Hitler was a fascist. He used the name 'socialism' to draw support, then governed as a hard-line conservative authoritarian who murdered the trade unionists and empowered capital to the greatest extent possible. Capitalists loved the guy. He redefined socialism to suit him and did not govern as a socialist. You're pretty gleefully falling for one hundred year old talking points because it suits your 'blame the left' talking points.



]

uhhh....

Good lord.[/QUOTE]

Yes, they had their own idea of socialism that derived from the Weimar republic, you are just arguing semantics. They were national socialist and thus the reason why the murdered trade unionists, it was because they were opposed to international socialism.

What do you consider "socialism" then in essence? they had virtually achieved that in Germany, though arguably in a very ethno-centric manner.

Socialism=giving out food stamps while the recipients live in public housing blocks while being unemployed without much career prospects? I do not meet many socialists who are not in fact neo-liberals masquerading as the former.

[RisingForce]

Do you somehow think Red and Black signify anything?

Russian Flag:



American Flag:



The same colors, meaning nothing.

It's basically the French Revolution and the Crusades with the Western countries.

What about this flag?

Oh yeah, the Union jack, why is it that conservatism is often associated with blue in most countries except in America where it's red? and yet, America fought for their independence from the U.K. but yet the British royal guards often wear red and black uniforms? America is totally weird in that sense.