1. #50896
    Ultimate Member Kirby101's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hyped78 View Post
    Isn't that Democratic? (see the numbers in my post just above this one) Do a referendum and see what most people want.

    I personally don't understand why in some countries people can still vote without ID, without going into detail on what ID is acceptable etc.
    The point was all the issues with overwhelming support from voters in polls the GOP opposes. So I can't take this Voter ID bullshit from them seriously. Considering all voting laws they pass are meant to suppress the vote.
    There came a time when the Old Gods died! The Brave died with the Cunning! The Noble perished locked in battle with unleashed Evil! It was the last day for them! An ancient era was passing in fiery holocaust!

  2. #50897
    Mighty Member hyped78's Avatar
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    The UK is one of the few European countries where voter ID isn't (well, wasn't) required to vote. The law has been changed this year, voter ID will now be required:
    https://commonslibrary.parliament.uk...ings/cbp-9187/

    "The Elections Act 2022 will introduce the requirement to show photo ID at UK Parliamentary elections, police and crime commissioner elections and at local elections in England."

  3. #50898
    Mighty Member hyped78's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kirby101 View Post
    The point was all the issues with overwhelming support from voters in polls the GOP opposes. So I can't take this Voter ID bullshit from them seriously. Considering all voting laws they pass are meant to suppress the vote.
    I won't argue against that, I see your point and I'm obviously not in favor of voter suppression.

    All I'm saying is that I believe voter ID should be required to vote, generally speaking (forgetting about the GOP, the US, I mean as a general principle). As a result, it should also be easy for everyone to have access to ID.
    Last edited by hyped78; 08-15-2022 at 03:22 AM.

  4. #50899
    Mighty Member hyped78's Avatar
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    Russia and North Korea should work together more closely, says Putin:

    https://news.sky.com/story/vladimir-...orces-12673422

    Strange bedfellows! Or maybe not.

  5. #50900
    Ultimate Member Mister Mets's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by thwhtGuardian View Post
    But the voter ID laws in place don't have that distinction, which is what people mean when they disagree with voter ID laws.
    It generally seems that people who disagree with voter ID laws don't want them in place under any circumstances.

    Quote Originally Posted by JackDaw View Post
    How has it got to this stage?

    US wealth is enormous. US media output via films, books, some newspapers often champions humane ideals. Education (by most international standards) is good. US constitution and overall framework is an excellent Democratic model.

    It all ought to add up to an unswerving commitment to democracy, with both main parties having fairly liberal values.

    So why isn’t it like that?
    In this context, do you mean "liberal" as "classically liberal" (IE- commitment to rule of law and freedom of speech)?

    Part of it is a belief that the other side will cheat.

    Part of there are too many incentives to be maximalist and uncompromising. It keeps the base happy.
    Sincerely,
    Thomas Mets

  6. #50901
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    Quote Originally Posted by hyped78 View Post
    Russia and North Korea should work together more closely, says Putin:

    https://news.sky.com/story/vladimir-...orces-12673422

    Strange bedfellows! Or maybe not.
    Its dangerous. Imagine Russia, North Korea and China start working together?

  7. #50902
    Ultimate Member Kirby101's Avatar
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    And is it surprising that after decades of misinformation about voter fraud from the GOP, that so many Americans are concerned about something that is not a problem.
    It's what they do, it's what they always do.
    There came a time when the Old Gods died! The Brave died with the Cunning! The Noble perished locked in battle with unleashed Evil! It was the last day for them! An ancient era was passing in fiery holocaust!

  8. #50903
    Mighty Member CaptainEurope's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DanMad1977 View Post
    Its dangerous. Imagine Russia, North Korea and China start working together?
    It will be like when supervillains team-up: they will betray each other.

  9. #50904
    Ultimate Member Kirby101's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hyped78 View Post
    Russia and North Korea should work together more closely, says Putin:

    https://news.sky.com/story/vladimir-...orces-12673422

    Strange bedfellows! Or maybe not.
    I can't get past the cookie request. But isn't Sky News more Murdoch propaganda?
    There came a time when the Old Gods died! The Brave died with the Cunning! The Noble perished locked in battle with unleashed Evil! It was the last day for them! An ancient era was passing in fiery holocaust!

  10. #50905
    Extraordinary Member thwhtGuardian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mister Mets View Post
    It generally seems that people who disagree with voter ID laws don't want them in place under any circumstances.

    In this context, do you mean "liberal" as "classically liberal" (IE- commitment to rule of law and freedom of speech)?

    Part of it is a belief that the other side will cheat.

    Part of there are too many incentives to be maximalist and uncompromising. It keeps the base happy.
    I don't think that's true, it's always seemed like opposition to the voting laws actually in place which are purposefully restricting rather than voting laws in general. If voting ID's were free and easy to get with mass sign up sites in commonly trafficked areas with big media pushes advertising sign ups and the ability to receive a temporary card that day, and if already readily available ID's like school ID's were also acceptable then you'd find little push back...but that's not included in any of the laws in place or that have been put forward.
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  11. #50906
    Astonishing Member JackDaw's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mister Mets View Post
    It generally seems that people who disagree with voter ID laws don't want them in place under any circumstances.

    In this context, do you mean "liberal" as "classically liberal" (IE- commitment to rule of law and freedom of speech)?

    Part of it is a belief that the other side will cheat.

    Part of there are too many incentives to be maximalist and uncompromising. It keeps the base happy.
    Yes…I was using “liberal” in that sort of sense (i.e. commitment to rule of law and freedom of speech).

    And to my mind being liberal implies a commitment to being tolerant of lifestyles that are different to your own…that you want other people to be free to get on with their life in the way they chose…unless it’s very clear that is materially damaging to other people.

  12. #50907
    Mighty Member hyped78's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kirby101 View Post
    I can't get past the cookie request. But isn't Sky News more Murdoch propaganda?
    No, that's Sky News Australia, which is basically right-wing propaganda and sensationalism like Fox News.

    Sky News UK is reputable (it operates under Ofcom broadcasting regulations, which require impartial/ unbiased coverage), like CNN.

    Here's another link/ source:
    https://www.reuters.com/world/putin-...na-2022-08-14/

  13. #50908
    Ultimate Member Kirby101's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hyped78 View Post
    No, that's Sky News Australia, which is basically like Fox News. Sky News UK is reputable, like CNN.

    Here's another link/ source:
    https://www.reuters.com/world/putin-...na-2022-08-14/
    Thanks. Headline: Isolated Putin growing more desperate.
    There came a time when the Old Gods died! The Brave died with the Cunning! The Noble perished locked in battle with unleashed Evil! It was the last day for them! An ancient era was passing in fiery holocaust!

  14. #50909
    Ultimate Member Kirby101's Avatar
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    I imagine since Mets tells us the GOP is following the Americans' lead on voting, they will fully endorse and push to expand mail in voting in all States they control..

    I mean if they don't want to look like the anti-democratic fascists they are.

    https://www.cnn.com/2020/09/11/polit...and/index.html

    And of course they will make sure every registered voter is provided with ID.
    Last edited by Kirby101; 08-15-2022 at 05:05 AM.
    There came a time when the Old Gods died! The Brave died with the Cunning! The Noble perished locked in battle with unleashed Evil! It was the last day for them! An ancient era was passing in fiery holocaust!

  15. #50910
    Astonishing Member CSTowle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JackDaw View Post
    How has it got to this stage?

    US wealth is enormous. US media output via films, books, some newspapers often champions humane ideals. Education (by most international standards) is good. US constitution and overall framework is an excellent Democratic model.

    It all ought to add up to an unswerving commitment to democracy, with both main parties having fairly liberal values.

    So why isn’t it like that?
    Because demographics are shifting and while Republicans have had the problem of being the less popular (by vote total, not land represented) Party they're now seeing a very real future where if they choose to continue to embrace a white/hetero/christian majority-rule standard they're going to be the permanent minority Party. Given that, there are a few choices:

    1. Work on outreach to minority groups. Religion is a powerful drug, and if they'd get their head out of their a##es they'd find a lot of common ground on everything from abortion to suppression of LGBTQ+ rights among minorities (popular Democratic opinion aside, white people are not the only ones with regressive views on a variety of subjects).

    2. Ignore historic norms and rule of law and grasp and cement power among your traditional power base. This seems to be the tactic they're employing currently. Whether they can succeed in the short or long term is to be determined, but it seems to be preferable to minority outreach.

    3. (Perhaps a next step to #2, whether or not it's successful) Balkanization. Splitting off into 50 or fewer (or more?) mini-countries with regional interests and governments. Could be a result of violence, could be a result of popular mandate that we no longer have the stomach as a country to fight back against and so let them go.

    If things turn around economically (and things are looking up generally) this is far less likely. But it's interesting/depressing to see that we're really just a few bad years from the whole thing falling apart.
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