All purpose news and politics thread part VI: This Is Not The Time For Posing

[seismic-2]

The fundamental rule of firearms safety is normally that the person firing a gun must inspect it before using it. But this was a prop gun. The armorer is supposed to load it carefully with a blank, and no one else is supposed to touch it (except maybe the prop master) until the actor fires it. The last thing they want is for the actor to try to inspect the prop gun, poking inside the barrel and the chamber or taking out the blank, inspecting it, and replacing it, since he is likely to mess up what the armorer did with the blank and thereby possibly cause a dangerous misfire. Preparing and inspecting a prop gun should be left to professionals, and actors should leave the props alone. The assistant director had no business handling the gun at all. It should have been the prop master who gave it to Baldwin. My question is - why was any live ammunition on the set in the first place?

[WestPhillyPunisher]

THe GOP here in Ohio is all in on the Trump Train. In the JD Vance race He is being blasted by other GOP members and they are running ads where he bad mouthed and insulted Trump and claim he is not at all a real Republican or a Republican who will represent their values. Meanwhile JD Vance is trying to jump on the Trump train saying he deeply regrets those comments and Trump was a great President.

Sigh!

More proof the GQP belongs lock, stock and barrel to Trump, hell, Qpublicans don’t even bother hiding that fact anymore. It’s like the 1930’s when Germany collectively bent over backwards to give Hitler everything he wanted, including complete and uncontested power. We are watching a political party slide into full blown authoritarianism, if not outright fascism at warp speed, and it’s downright frightening.

[MacrossPlus]

Yea it can. But with Biden's approval rating dropping and the Dems infighting in public and the press giving the GOP so many talking points, they are making it hard on themselves. Not to mention what was talked about above the groups who voted for the promise of change and feel like it was not delivered and taking a "Why bother." attitude for next time. I just dont see the Dems doing well in the Midterms. I wish that was not the case but I just dont see it. I mean they control the house, Senate, and White House and they cant even pass their own bills. That is the narrative tat the GOP is taking and running with right now. And a lot of people sadly are listening.

So I guess the only solution is to simply give up and learn to live with it

[Xheight]

So I guess the only solution is to simply give up and learn to live with it

Or Steal another Presidency.

[numberthirty]

Or Steal another Presidency.

You're saying "Another..." like an American Presidency has actually been stolen at some point in US history...

[thwhtGuardian]

Or Steal another Presidency.

How can there be "another" theft if there wasn't a first?
I checked my history book...but I don't see where it mentioned a presidential election ever being stolen in the United States.

[achilles]

The fundamental rule of firearms safety is normally that the person firing a gun must inspect it before using it. But this was a prop gun. The armorer is supposed to load it carefully with a blank, and no one else is supposed to touch it (except maybe the prop master) until the actor fires it. The last thing they want is for the actor to try to inspect the prop gun, poking inside the barrel and the chamber or taking out the blank, inspecting it, and replacing it, since he is likely to mess up what the armorer did with the blank and thereby possibly cause a dangerous misfire. Preparing and inspecting a prop gun should be left to professionals, and actors should leave the props alone. The assistant director had no business handling the gun at all. It should have been the prop master who gave it to Baldwin. My question is - why was any live ammunition on the set in the first place?

That there was live ammo on set is a sign that this was a troubled production with no care at all for safety, and multiple failures on the line. If any one of them had not happened, the whole tragedy wouldn't have. had the crew not been plinking, evidently with the same gun, (a real, unmodified gun by all accounts), had the armorer been halfway competent and careful, (which didn't happen because the producers, presumably including Baldwin, cheaped out and scared off the good armorers), had the AD not been a massive tool apparently with no concern whatsoever for safety, and finally had Baldwin taken a few seconds to check his gun, (it should have been handed to him with the cylinder open---with the only thing required of him being to simply verify himself that the gun was empty), none of this would have happened. And yes, it should have been the prop master to handle the gun, though that seems to be a bit more fluid practice in the US than in say the UK.

Note that the bolded part is standard practice. It isn't just guns, either. The industry has had deaths and injuries from trains, helicopters, cars, water in tanks...you name it, they've managed to mess it up badly at some point. They need to take safety seriously in every production. And for that to happen, I'm afraid there might need to be a high profile person held legally accountable. Here, there seems to be a perfect candidate, in that he did legitimately help cause the death through negligence.

[SUPERECWFAN1]

That there was live ammo on set is a sign that this was a troubled production with no care at all for safety, and multiple failures on the line. If any one of them had not happened, the whole tragedy wouldn't have. had the crew not been plinking, evidently with the same gun, (a real, unmodified gun by all accounts), had the armorer been halfway competent and careful, (which didn't happen because the producers, presumably including Baldwin, cheaped out and scared off the good armorers), had the AD not been a massive tool apparently with no concern whatsoever for safety, and finally had Baldwin taken a few seconds to check his gun, (it should have been handed to him with the cylinder open---with the only thing required of him being to simply verify himself that the gun was empty), none of this would have happened. And yes, it should have been the prop master to handle the gun, though that seems to be a bit more fluid practice in the US than in say the UK.

Note that the bolded part is standard practice. It isn't just guns, either. The industry has had deaths and injuries from trains, helicopters, cars, water in tanks...you name it, they've managed to mess it up badly at some point. They need to take safety seriously in every production. And for that to happen, I'm afraid there might need to be a high profile person held legally accountable. Here, there seems to be a perfect candidate, in that he did legitimately help cause the death through negligence.

The above post details why they don't want actors messing with prop guns. Baldwin has been filming movies for 40+ years. He's been handed a great number of prop guns and trusts the professionals there. We have to remember ...Baldwin is one of 6 producers on this film. He could be a producer in name only who only comes to the set , films his scenes and leaves. Its very doubtful he handled on set issues and people behind the scenes. To know these folks were clueless idiots with firing real live ammunition on set.

[achilles]

In general firearm safety yes individuals should be responsible. But, there are child actors who have used guns in performances etc. I don't know enough about movie/entertainment in general processes for weapons. But, I would think actors just trust that the people who hand them weapons for a scene whose job it was to make sure of that type thing actually "did their job". Maybe this will be a Lesson Learned moment. And one of the takeaways will be anyone even if the weapon is fake or supposed to have blanks checks it or fires it a couple times whatever at some object before starting the scene

Here's the fundamental rule in question stated in the way I first heard it, "All guns are ALWAYs loaded". It doesn't mean that literally of course, but rather that you must treat every gun that way. Phrasing it that way underscores that you are dealing with an item that can kill...it is always absolutely serious, (Jon-Erik Hexum died playing around with a gun on set after the take, which is why it is now standard practice to take the gun away from the actor the instant the scene is over, and only giving it to the actor just before the scene).

But there's another, equally serious violation of gun safety rules that Baldwin did here, pointing the gun AT people. It is apparently industry standard to NEVER do that. There's even a word for it, but I don't recall what. But they use camera angles and screens to make the action look real.

There doesn't seem to have been a culture of safety on that set by all accounts.

One other point; there was NO reason for Baldwin to be given a REAL, FUNCTIONING gun, as he was, for a REHEARSAL, which this was.

[Gray Lensman]

How can there be "another" theft if there wasn't a first?
I checked my history book...but I don't see where it mentioned a presidential election ever being stolen in the United States.

The closest we have is actually JFK - there were allegedly places in Texas with more votes cast than voters. Nixon wasn't willing to have an election decided in court, despite being urged to do so.

And here we are folks, the Republican Party lacks even the integrity of Richard Nixon. Somehow, I put those words down without it being intended as a punchline.

[seismic-2]

finally had Baldwin taken a few seconds to check his gun, (it should have been handed to him with the cylinder open---with the only thing required of him being to simply verify himself that the gun was empty), none of this would have happened.

Except that the gun wasn't supposed to be empty. It was supposed to have been loaded - carefully - with a blank cartridge. Had Baldwin removed the cartridge and seen that it wasn't a blank, then the accident would have been averted. But on the 99.99% of movies where prop guns are used the way that they are supposed to be, the act of having an amateur fumble around with the loaded pistol, handling the blank that had already been loaded carefully into it. and then re-loading it, would in fact introduce a significant new source of danger into a process that had already been performed in a manner to optimize safety. It would be like letting the actors check the scaffolding, wiring, overhead lighting, and other dangerous items that are a part of every movie set. Lets the pros do their jobs and don't let the actors try to re-do them. As for Baldwin's job as a producer, that's an ambiguous job title that can mean just about anything. Generally speaking, though, it is the producer's job to raise the financing for the movie and to post a "completion bond" showing that the movie's budget has been assured. The producer hires a director to make the movie, and often that's all he does. Some producers micro-manage, but generally spending the money (including hiring the crew) is the first thing a director does.

[Billy Batson]

How can there be "another" theft if there wasn't a first?
I checked my history book...but I don't see where it mentioned a presidential election ever being stolen in the United States.

You're saying "Another..." like an American Presidency has actually been stolen at some point in US history...

2000 in Florida

[seismic-2]

How can there be "another" theft if there wasn't a first?
I checked my history book...but I don't see where it mentioned a presidential election ever being stolen in the United States.

That happened once, in 1876. Rutherford B. Hayes, who had lost the popular vote to Samuel Tilden, won the vote of the Electoral College when what amounted to a deal was struck among the electors, resulting in 20 disputed electoral votes from 4 States all being awarded to Hayes as a <i>quid pro quo</i> in exchange for an understanding that Congress would vote to abolish post-Civil War Reconstruction in the South. You can read about the shenanigans here. As for the 2020 election, not only wasn't it stolen, it wasn't even close enough to steal. The Democratic ticket defeated the Republican ticket by a popular vote of 81M to 73M and by an Electoral vote of 306 to 232, the exact same Electoral College margin by which Donald Trump had defeated Hillary Clinton in 2016, a margin of victory that Trump had termed a "landslide".

[thwhtGuardian]

That happened once, in 1876. Rutherford B. Hayes, who had lost the popular vote to Samuel Tilden, won the vote of the Electoral College when what amounted to a deal was struck among the electors, resulting in 20 disputed electoral votes from 4 States all being awarded to Hayes as a <i>quid pro quo</i> in exchange for an understanding that Congress would vote to abolish post-Civil War Reconstruction in the South. You can read about the shenanigans here. As for the 2020 election, not only wasn't it stolen, it wasn't even close enough to steal. The Democratic ticket defeated the Republican ticket by a popular vote of 81M to 73M and by an Electoral vote of 306 to 232, the exact same Electoral College margin by which Donald Trump had defeated Hillary Clinton in 2016, a margin of victory that Trump had termed a "landslide".

That's not a theft either, just the poor electoral rules of the time.

[Mister Mets]

Elias isn't some nobody nor is he alone in cooking up all Kinds of BS and working with the Left insurgency. A quick look up will show his work with the Cole Perkins firm where the the whole russiagate confab came out of and was under FBI investigation.
There are a host of Left PACs that do all kinds of dirty work, one of the latest was involved in the VA race making impersonating phone calls to Right leaning voters or mailings https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/n...mp-mail-tricky or fake websites https://1010wcsi.com/fox-politics/mc...igation-finds/. Yes both sides.

https://www.opensecrets.org/news/202...per-pacs-2020/

for every American Action Network there is a Sixteen Thirty Fund

Sketchiness is non-partisan.

I'm remembering a Republican state senate primary in New York where one candidate tried to suggest his opponent was too close to gay people.

https://www.nbcnewyork.com/news/loca...lrich/1958033/

War Gamed or planning that must hide its sedition? You are being far too generous as I got word election day from a anarchist friend in DC about street organizing already happening. Under reported is that the "grassroots" .orgs used the same app, Zello, to communicate with people as the Jan. 6 people did later. MSM didn't and doesn't care to report.

As to Elias that - quote is an excerpt from his filing on behalf of the Abrams project demonstrating his involvement and hypocrisy about election integrity.

but thanks yes the Bill of rights says freedom "of" not "from" and the legal history is about how to protect it for everyone by not having an official one.

lastly that Sanders gets along with Biden is no indication of the political goals being the same only Senatorial history. Biden came up in a conservative blue collar base and internalized that to his detriment as that has mostly moved on to Trump and his alliance with the left is and will be one of calculation as we have seen in the BBB and BIF. Looking at the primaries the one thing you neglect to note is the African American vote he brought/bought with Clyburn that under cut every Left candidate not just Bernie. If it is one thing we know about Democratic politics the machine still has greater hold than ideology.

Anecdotal evidence is really hard to evaluate in any discussion. If I uncritically accept what your interpretation of what your anarchist friend said, it allows someone else to make up bullshit, or at least to be careless with the facts.

I have no idea who was doing the organizing for your anarchist friend, what they were ready to do, etc. As for the lack of reporting from the mainstream media, if it is relatively well-documented, this would be an astounding opening for independent conservative media outlets. OAN or Newsmax would love to report that story.

The Clyburn endorsement was significant, but Biden was already well-positioned among African-American voters because he was a powerful white guy who served loyally as Obama's #2. It's also perfectly legal and moral for a politician to endorse another. Most presidential candidates are going to get a lot of endorsements on the way.