1. #23431
    Invincible Member numberthirty's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BeastieRunner View Post
    It just makes him look like a douche to the vets.

    They know the score and savvy people do, too.

    It also hurts the GOP's ability about attacking other's service records while not going against their own.

    Makes them a bunch of hypocrites, don't you think?

    Trump's words are really going to haunt this party for the next 12 years.
    The whole thing sort of hinges on the assumption that the general public know the guy by name and give a rip, no?

    In a country where there is still a pandemic in third gear and folks out of work?

    I'm not so sure that I would put a name brand box of jellybeans on that actually being the case.

  2. #23432
    Silver Sentinel BeastieRunner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by numberthirty View Post
    The whole thing sort of hinges on the assumption that the general public know the guy by name and give a rip, no?

    In a country where there is still a pandemic in third gear and folks out of work?

    I'm not so sure that I would put a name brand box of jellybeans on that actually being the case.
    Right wing news tells me the neocons care when it is a Dem, regardless of pandemic. Hence why suddenly Blumenthal is being drug up again like it was in 2018 and now 2021 when one of their own lied.

    But I think your first statement stands because back in 2010 with Blumenthal it was, "Who!?" ... followed by ... "Oh, a Democrat! Get rid of the SOB!"

    I would assume some Reagan-like jelly beans as well that this will get a similar reaction until debate time, when the vets and savvy people whom already knew about it and made up their mind.

    Lying about service records is like cheating on your spouse anymore, it happens so much in US politics that nobody really cares anymore.

    You may have a point.
    "Always listen to the crazy scientist with a weird van or armful of blueprints and diagrams." -- Vibranium

  3. #23433
    Old school comic book fan WestPhillyPunisher's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robotman View Post
    Democrats make federal election standards a top priority

    This is the type of legislation I was hoping for. So many steps need to be taken to stop the next Trump from truly destroying democracy. As many have already said, the next authoritarian president will be much smarter/craftier. Trumpís stupidity, impatience, and irrational behavior is the only thing that saved us.
    You can bet the mortgage and the kidís college fund the GOP will fight this legislation tooth and nail. Itís no secret Republicans want to rule, not govern, they enjoyed the authoritarianism under Trump and are not about to return to sharing power with Democrats.
    Avatar: Here's to the late, great Steve Dillon. Best. Punisher. Artist. EVER!

  4. #23434
    Invincible Member numberthirty's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BeastieRunner View Post
    Right wing news tells me the neocons care when it is a Dem, regardless of pandemic. Hence why suddenly Blumenthal is being drug up again like it was in 2018 and now 2021 when one of their own lied.

    But I think your first statement stands because back in 2010 with Blumenthal it was, "Who!?" ... followed by ... "Oh, a Democrat! Get rid of the SOB!"

    I would assume some Reagan-like jelly beans as well that this will get a similar reaction until debate time, when the vets and savvy people whom already knew about it and made up their mind.

    Lying about service records is like cheating on your spouse anymore, it happens so much in US politics that nobody really cares anymore.

    You may have a point.
    Don't get me wrong. I think that it's probably an issue to a degree among active military.

    That said?

    Not so long ago, a group of folks in Congress had to step down because victims they had sexually harassed had been paid settlements with taxpayer money.

    If you went out and asked John/Jane Public to name any one of them today? How many would even be able to give you one name correctly?

    Not that it's not an issue. Just that there are far more pressing issues for regular folks, and the news cycle turns over at a pretty good clip.

  5. #23435

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    Quote Originally Posted by WestPhillyPunisher View Post
    You can bet the mortgage and the kid’s college fund the GOP will fight this legislation tooth and nail. It’s no secret Republicans want to rule, not govern, they enjoyed the authoritarianism under Trump and are not about to return to sharing power with Democrats.
    Yup - State Republicans push new voting restrictions after Trump’s loss

  6. #23436
    "Comic Book Reviewer" InformationGeek's Avatar
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    OH WBE, prepare for a depressing future. Good luck pulling out all the lows from this person's past. >_<

    Republican Sarah Sanders, a former White House spokeswoman, is running for Arkansas governor, a campaign official told AP. The daughter of former Gov. Mike Huckabee, Sanders has been laying groundwork for her candidacy in recent months.

  7. #23437
    Silver Sentinel BeastieRunner's Avatar
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    7 of Ted Cruz's Senate colleagues call for probe into his potential role in Capitol insurrection.

    And they are starting with looking at his campaign finances with a fine tooth comb.
    "Always listen to the crazy scientist with a weird van or armful of blueprints and diagrams." -- Vibranium

  8. #23438
    Astonishing Member CSTowle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steel Inquisitor View Post
    It's not just about this meme, this meme is just the latest meme Bernie's had. This meme is not an isolated incident. It's been a thing with Bernie ever since a bird came down when he had a speech, and it's the behaviour around the memes which is dangerous.



    You want to know how Trump became a god-king among the insurrections and his followers? This is part of the answer, he became an idea not a man to his followers. It's why the Bernie Bros became a thing which the left has been desperately trying to erase from history because it makes the movement look bad.



    True, but not all popularity is good for society. When someone stops being a politician and starts being a deity to their followers something has gone horribly wrong. No, Bernie is not anyone's "cool uncle" to his followers, they are not related to him. He doesn't know who these people are. This ins't about likability, this is not the same thing as having a beer with a candidate this is celebrity worship which risks harming people around them who aren't in the group. That was bad, this is worse. Bernie's not their friend, they want him to be their family when he's neither - he's a politician. Especially when it's combined with stubborn contrariness and conspiracy theories about rigged elections against the "establishment" - a worrying trend among both Bernie's and Trump's supporters which this feeds. I know why this are to be, the problem is it shouldn't be accepted as something we should encourage in society.



    Sure, but that's not the complaint. It's the reactions to Bernie's rise which are the problem. Hillary's popularity is debatable, if she truly was as hated as the left would believe she'd have been Bloomberg'd out of the race.



    Minority voters chose other candidates more than Bernie, this is a big reason why Biden won in '20. They're also in a coalition, all factions who don't win have to do that and do it again next time, that's the process. It's incredibly rich that Bernie's supposed to be the champion of minority voters when he couldn't be bothered going to the anniversary of Bloody Sunday.

    https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/01/u...andidates.html

    Bernie has a problematic history among minority voting blocs, if they were so behind hm as we're supposed to be believed he'd have been president years ago. "Party elite" - vernacular the far left and far right have in common in disparaging anyone who won't step into line when they say jump, despite failing to achieve things like winning elections. That's their candidates one job, if that candidate fails they need to ask more questions about why they're losing then blaming the nebulous "establishment" which includes organisations like Planned Parenthood.

    https://www.vox.com/2016/1/20/108014...-establishment

    It's disingenuous to suggest other candidates followers aren't genuinely supporting their politicians, it's dangerous close to "fake news" to my liking. People have valid opinions in believing in candidates which aren't named Bernie sanders. This is where the cult of personality starts freaking out political rivals because it becomes more about feels than facts.

    Bernie wishes he was Obama, and Obama's cult of personality wasn't as persistent or dangerous as Bernie's. Bernie's followers projecting things on him is why this is a problem, that's what the memes encourage the idea of him like that, not that he's actually a man and politician. He's more like Santa Claus than a real person with these memes.



    What you're saying is true but Bernie sanders being elected won't change that those are systemic problems which take decades to fix, no single president can do that. Even Bernie. Again, this is missing the problem that how Bernie is being deified is not how politicians should be reacted to by the public, that's another problem which American politics don't need. We're stuck with incrementalism because breaking the system isn't an option. Even assuming Bernie lives up to that if he were president the Democrats would boot him out before too much comes to pass because they're not the GOP. Democrats have standards and they don't like destroying the system by people who don't have plans for what to do afterward, which the right would exploit to put their own king on the throne to rule the ashes. That "bowl of oatmeal" was more popular than Bernie was, that's why he's president.
    1. First off, just to set your mind at ease, Bernie Sanders is never going to be elected to anything other than the Senate. Maybe if he wanted to be, Governor of Vermont. Don't know why he'd want to, he's more helpful to the country in the Senate, but he's never going to be President. Probably never was.

    2. Yes, there were bad actors among Bernie supporters. Just as there are for every large group of political actors. It doesn't extend very far into the populace most of the time. Certainly didn't for Bernie even with the Democratic electorate in '16 or '20. I've outlined my theories on why he became as popular as he was, though again not popular enough to win, but that's just one man's uneducated speculation. People like authenticity, they like options, and some people who felt like they hadn't had a voice in decades (and would have less of one with a Clinton in the White House again) saw an out. I don't begrudge them that, and if you're interested in keeping a coalition going forward to keep Republicans out of the big chair you should let it go too.

    3. Obama definitely had a cult following and massive projection of values/ideas. He actually leaned into it, and made jokes about it (see his routines during the Correspondent's Dinners). If he had been prevented from gaining the nomination of the Party or had lost in the General you would have certainly had more vocal and bitter Obama supporters stirring things up. Heck, Clinton tried to label some of his followers "Obama Boys". But he won, so people tend to forget that.

    4. It is more about feels than facts. It probably shouldn't be, but it is. And I'm not sure the stale, slightly past it's expiration date oatmeal that is Biden was more popular than anyone. He was a name folk knew, he had been #2 for 8 years, he was known to Party leadership, and most importantly they didn't want to f##k this up and risk four more years of Trump. He didn't beat Trump by such a large margin because he's more popular than Trump. He did that because so many people hate Trump and wanted him gone that you had a large anti-Trump movement. Cult of personality is a double-edged sword.

    5. On Clinton's lack of popularity, she had one of the most impressive on-paper resumes in Presidential history and lost to a failed businessman who'd been found to be too unethical and unstable to own an NFL franchise and had just been revealed on tape as a serial sexual predator. People don't like her.

    6. On Bernie's problems with minorities, I'd imagine that comes down to two things. One, he comes from one of the least diverse and least populous states in America. Two, in a normal election cycle he would have been the one-issue under-5% candidate (again, Dennis Kucinich is who comes to mind but on the opposite end I suppose Forbes and his flat tax would be a good comparison). He wasn't prepared for the big time, but made adjustments and in-roads. But not enough, and with a candidate who wasn't historically unpopular and with nearly half a century of connections and relationships with other politicians including Clyburn (who might have swung the whole thing) in Biden he just couldn't compete.

    7. On Trump supporters and the god-king thing, I don't know why so many people are able to project so many qualities they admire onto a man who clearly is full of s##t (even by political standards) and whose history is practically built upon screwing the little guy. I'll give him credit, he knows how to play people. I'd imagine a lot of books by people much smarter than I am will study why the conspiracy fringe became so mainstream this election cycle. I'd imagine the virus and the lockdown certainly contributed, and playing to the distrust people have for the government and politicians in general certainly helped. I will say though, I don't think memes had anything to do with it.
    Formerly finfangfool

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    Saw it coming a mile away. She'll probably be in a primary against Lt. Gov. Tim Griffin.
    X-Books Forum Mutant Tracker/FAQ- Updated every Tuesday.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mister Mets View Post
    Not quite. According to the Salon piece, he completed Ranger training, which does allow him the right to wear the ranger tab.

    https://www.salon.com/2021/01/22/sen...idnt-have-any/
    Right. I don't know what the controversy is. He completed Ranger training. Anyone that finishes that school gets the ranger tab and is a ranger. I was in a regular mechanized infantry unit and we had a few soldiers with the ranger tab and we all considered them rangers.

  11. #23441
    Extraordinary Member Revolutionary_Jack's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by worstblogever View Post
    Saw it coming a mile away. She'll probably be in a primary against Lt. Gov. Tim Griffin.
    This must be your theme song:


  12. #23442
    Astonishing Member PwrdOn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CSTowle View Post
    1. First off, just to set your mind at ease, Bernie Sanders is never going to be elected to anything other than the Senate. Maybe if he wanted to be, Governor of Vermont. Don't know why he'd want to, he's more helpful to the country in the Senate, but he's never going to be President. Probably never was.

    2. Yes, there were bad actors among Bernie supporters. Just as there are for every large group of political actors. It doesn't extend very far into the populace most of the time. Certainly didn't for Bernie even with the Democratic electorate in '16 or '20. I've outlined my theories on why he became as popular as he was, though again not popular enough to win, but that's just one man's uneducated speculation. People like authenticity, they like options, and some people who felt like they hadn't had a voice in decades (and would have less of one with a Clinton in the White House again) saw an out. I don't begrudge them that, and if you're interested in keeping a coalition going forward to keep Republicans out of the big chair you should let it go too.

    3. Obama definitely had a cult following and massive projection of values/ideas. He actually leaned into it, and made jokes about it (see his routines during the Correspondent's Dinners). If he had been prevented from gaining the nomination of the Party or had lost in the General you would have certainly had more vocal and bitter Obama supporters stirring things up. Heck, Clinton tried to label some of his followers "Obama Boys". But he won, so people tend to forget that.

    4. It is more about feels than facts. It probably shouldn't be, but it is. And I'm not sure the stale, slightly past it's expiration date oatmeal that is Biden was more popular than anyone. He was a name folk knew, he had been #2 for 8 years, he was known to Party leadership, and most importantly they didn't want to f##k this up and risk four more years of Trump. He didn't beat Trump by such a large margin because he's more popular than Trump. He did that because so many people hate Trump and wanted him gone that you had a large anti-Trump movement. Cult of personality is a double-edged sword.

    5. On Clinton's lack of popularity, she had one of the most impressive on-paper resumes in Presidential history and lost to a failed businessman who'd been found to be too unethical and unstable to own an NFL franchise and had just been revealed on tape as a serial sexual predator. People don't like her.

    6. On Bernie's problems with minorities, I'd imagine that comes down to two things. One, he comes from one of the least diverse and least populous states in America. Two, in a normal election cycle he would have been the one-issue under-5% candidate (again, Dennis Kucinich is who comes to mind but on the opposite end I suppose Forbes and his flat tax would be a good comparison). He wasn't prepared for the big time, but made adjustments and in-roads. But not enough, and with a candidate who wasn't historically unpopular and with nearly half a century of connections and relationships with other politicians including Clyburn (who might have swung the whole thing) in Biden he just couldn't compete.

    7. On Trump supporters and the god-king thing, I don't know why so many people are able to project so many qualities they admire onto a man who clearly is full of s##t (even by political standards) and whose history is practically built upon screwing the little guy. I'll give him credit, he knows how to play people. I'd imagine a lot of books by people much smarter than I am will study why the conspiracy fringe became so mainstream this election cycle. I'd imagine the virus and the lockdown certainly contributed, and playing to the distrust people have for the government and politicians in general certainly helped. I will say though, I don't think memes had anything to do with it.
    I don't quite understand this continued insistence that Bernie Bros are some kind of cult of personality. Bernie is not the most charismatic guy out there, grumpily repeating the same talking points over and over isn't really going to inspire that many people, it's just that he was the only guy advocating for a set of policies that should be no brainers in any civilized society but somehow are considered unfathomably toxic in America, and people who liked those policies supported him. Frankly I doubt many people thought he was really going to win, but just saw his candidacy as a useful way to bring those issues to the forefront. And yeah, maybe you can argue that his positions are too idealistic and we need leaders that are more well versed in the dirty games of favor trading and backroom deals that actually get things done in Washington, but if the last decade has taught us anything, it's that the current crop of Democratic leaders definitely aren't that, since they've been getting their clocks cleaned by Mitch McConnell at every turn.

    As for Trump, you have to understand that right wingers above all respect strength more than anything, because in their world view, society ultimately boils down a contest between apes of how much shit they can fling at each other before one establishes dominance and everyone else bows down before him. And in that respect, Trump has always managed to do far better than his meager talents might lead you to believe, because he understands the one truly universal trait of leaders, whether that be a silverback gorilla, Neanderthal chief, British viceroy, or President of the United States - if you just act like you are in charge and people accept that, then your authority is real regardless of how flimsy your claim to that might be. And while we might laugh at his repeated failures, what could possibly be a more potent expression of power than fucking up repeatedly and never facing any consequences for it?

  13. #23443
    Ultimate Member Tendrin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by shooshoomanjoe View Post
    Right. I don't know what the controversy is. He completed Ranger training. Anyone that finishes that school gets the ranger tab and is a ranger. I was in a regular mechanized infantry unit and we had a few soldiers with the ranger tab and we all considered them rangers.
    In the article Mets linked:

    In his first run for Congress, Cotton leaned heavily on his military service, claiming to have been "a U.S. Army Ranger in Iraq and Afghanistan," and, in a campaign ad, to have "volunteered to be an Army Ranger." In reality, Cotton was never part of the 75th Ranger Regiment, the elite unit that plans and conducts joint special military operations as part of the U.S. Army Special Operations Command.
    So, he was obviously implying a kind of service he didn't in fact carry out. If it was just about him wearing a tab, it'd be one thing, but it's apparently not? I haven't looked too closely. The article further goes into the very distinction you're raising here and why it matters.
    Last edited by Tendrin; 01-24-2021 at 10:57 PM.

  14. #23444
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tendrin View Post
    In the article Mets linked:



    So, he was obviously implying a kind of service he didn't in fact carry out. If it was just about him wearing a tab, it'd be one thing, but it's apparently not? I haven't looked too closely. The article further goes into the very distinction you're raising here and why it matters.
    I don't know, I still think it's blown out of proportion. I suppose it might be different now since I got out in 1999 and things in the military change quickly but I still think it's fucked up that people are calling him out on not being a ranger when he earned the right to wear the ranger tab.

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    Quote Originally Posted by CSTowle View Post
    1. First off, just to set your mind at ease, Bernie Sanders is never going to be elected to anything other than the Senate. Maybe if he wanted to be, Governor of Vermont. Don't know why he'd want to, he's more helpful to the country in the Senate, but he's never going to be President. Probably never was.
    This isn't about Bernie himself, it's about his supporters and they don't need him to run for office to be a problem.

    2. Yes, there were bad actors among Bernie supporters. Just as there are for every large group of political actors. It doesn't extend very far into the populace most of the time. Certainly didn't for Bernie even with the Democratic electorate in '16 or '20. I've outlined my theories on why he became as popular as he was, though again not popular enough to win, but that's just one man's uneducated speculation. People like authenticity, they like options, and some people who felt like they hadn't had a voice in decades (and would have less of one with a Clinton in the White House again) saw an out. I don't begrudge them that, and if you're interested in keeping a coalition going forward to keep Republicans out of the big chair you should let it go too.
    If you know there are bad actors why aren't you don't your part in taking their tools away? Instead its normalising what they did because Bernie was "popular." This isn't about his popularity, it's about the bad actors and not giving oxygen to that fire.

    3. Obama definitely had a cult following and massive projection of values/ideas. He actually leaned into it, and made jokes about it (see his routines during the Correspondent's Dinners). If he had been prevented from gaining the nomination of the Party or had lost in the General you would have certainly had more vocal and bitter Obama supporters stirring things up. Heck, Clinton tried to label some of his followers "Obama Boys". But he won, so people tend to forget that.
    I didn't say he didn't, and they never went as far as the Bernie Bros did. A name which didn't stick.

    4. It is more about feels than facts. It probably shouldn't be, but it is. And I'm not sure the stale, slightly past it's expiration date oatmeal that is Biden was more popular than anyone. He was a name folk knew, he had been #2 for 8 years, he was known to Party leadership, and most importantly they didn't want to f##k this up and risk four more years of Trump. He didn't beat Trump by such a large margin because he's more popular than Trump. He did that because so many people hate Trump and wanted him gone that you had a large anti-Trump movement. Cult of personality is a double-edged sword.
    Sure, so how about we not give that validity? I said he was more popular than Bernie, and he did beat Trump by a lot. It was a blowout, Biden switched conservative strongholds like Georgia and Arizona.

    5. On Clinton's lack of popularity, she had one of the most impressive on-paper resumes in Presidential history and lost to a failed businessman who'd been found to be too unethical and unstable to own an NFL franchise and had just been revealed on tape as a serial sexual predator. People don't like her.
    She got more votes than Bernie or Trump. She may not be Obama in popularity but she is popular. Stop encouraging the narrative that Trump is easy to defeat and that its somehow makes her look weak because she's lost to him. Those are GOP talking points.

    6. On Bernie's problems with minorities, I'd imagine that comes down to two things. One, he comes from one of the least diverse and least populous states in America. Two, in a normal election cycle he would have been the one-issue under-5% candidate (again, Dennis Kucinich is who comes to mind but on the opposite end I suppose Forbes and his flat tax would be a good comparison). He wasn't prepared for the big time, but made adjustments and in-roads.
    Excuses.

    But not enough, and with a candidate who wasn't historically unpopular and with nearly half a century of connections and relationships with other politicians including Clyburn (who might have swung the whole thing) in Biden he just couldn't compete.
    The problem is that bernie felt entitled to those relationships tithe then building them himself. Nothing stopped him from trying to form an alliance with Clyburn and other influential people in the party, it's not like '16 was his first run for office. That's on Bernie.


    7. On Trump supporters and the god-king thing, I don't know why so many people are able to project so many qualities they admire onto a man who clearly is full of s##t (even by political standards) and whose history is practically built upon screwing the little guy. I'll give him credit, he knows how to play people. I'd imagine a lot of books by people much smarter than I am will study why the conspiracy fringe became so mainstream this election cycle. I'd imagine the virus and the lockdown certainly contributed, and playing to the distrust people have for the government and politicians in general certainly helped. I will say though, I don't think memes had anything to do with it.
    I just told you one reason why, memes and a cult of personality. They like the idea of Trump more than Trump himself. The memes reinforce this. You'd be mistaken.

    This apologia for Bernie Bros is bewildering.

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