1. #39106
    Braddock Isle JB's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kidfresh512 View Post
    The issue people have with this "both sides" bs is it's not in any way equal. Are there some left leaning policies that are out of touch with what an average American might want? Sure, but they are fringe. The policies that are currently being pushed and voted on are by all measures extremely popular.

    GOP don't even have any plans or policies. They only want to stop the libs and spread lies and misinformation. Make it harder for black people to vote rather than try to woo minorities with policies that appeal to their needs. So there is always a kneejerk reaction when people try to highlight some fringe policy on the left that no one is actually checking for anyway.

    When someone tells me "I just can't bring myself to vote for a Democrat" .And Then I think but you can vote for a Republican? Who literally stands for nothing now except the cultish following of crazies. Again NO policies, they only push conspiracies and try to make people fear some dark boogeyman. Heaven forbid students get an education and learn about how the country was built. No thats ,"woke", the catchall for I want to be as offensive as I want with no consequences.
    So what would you say is the reason for Hispanic voters supporting Republican candidates in higher numbers recently? That they want to be a part of a cult? This is from last month.

    Democrats have a major problem with Hispanic voters
    https://www.cnn.com/2021/12/09/polit...lem/index.html

    So, what changed? Democratic strategist Ruy Teixeira, in an essay titled "The Democrats' Hispanic Voter Problem," suggests the leftward movement of the party nationally has made it less appealing for Latinos.

    "This constituency does not harbor particularly radical views on the nature of American society and its supposed intrinsic racism and White supremacy," Teixeira writes. "They are instead a patriotic, upwardly mobile, working class group with quite practical and down to earth concerns. Democrats will either learn to focus on that or they will continue to lose ground among this vital group of voters."
    Continually calling Republican supporters crazies isn't helping the situation. Are there crazies that exist on the far-right? Absolutely yes. But these blanket statements are ignoring the reality of changes taking place, whether we like them or not.

    Democrats must face the reality of their Latino voter problem
    https://thehill.com/opinion/campaign...-voter-problem

    Democrats are losing their grip on the Latino vote. That’s a huge political problem for the party.

    In 2020, there was a demonstrable swing toward the G.O.P. among Latino voters — a trend that has sustained itself during Joe Biden’s presidency and now threatens to upend Democrats’ ability to build winning coalitions in 2022 and 2024 as the party’s platform moves further to the left.
    Last edited by JB; 01-22-2022 at 01:18 PM.
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  2. #39107
    Invincible Member numberthirty's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChadH View Post
    The reason we’re talking about her right now is because she’s actively obstructing Democratic efforts to pass legislation. Trying to still make that the Democrats fault is ridiculous. I know you really want to paint the party in a bad light but also put the blame where it’s due.
    Which is something that no one is doing.

    Meanwhile?

    This is still a party that can undermine itself, and alienate the base just fine all one it's own.

    Since Manchin was still a Dem as of this post, the woman in question undermining the party is something that would have happened anyway.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jbenito View Post
    So what would you say is the reason for Hispanic voters supporting Republican candidates in higher numbers recently? That they want to be a part of a cult? This is from last month.

    Democrats have a major problem with Hispanic voters
    https://www.cnn.com/2021/12/09/polit...lem/index.html



    Continually calling Republican supporters crazies isn't helping the situation. Are there crazies that exist on the far-right? Absolutely yes. But these blanket statements are ignoring the reality of changes taking place, whether we like them or not.

    Democrats must face the reality of their Latino voter problem
    https://thehill.com/opinion/campaign...-voter-problem
    If they believe in the fanatical direction that the majority of the party is taking, then yes, its culty. And it isn't a fringe of the GOP either or only the far right. Anyone that dares to stand up and say that the election was fair, or Trump is a fraud gets censured. The examples are obvious. So you can't say that is a pocket of the party or a fringe. It is all the party stands for now.

    If the Far Right was the only issue, then the rest of the party should have no problem putting them in their place should they? But, they don't. They still vote for people that support the worst elements of the base. They do not suffer any political consequences for repeating far right lies and hate.

    I never suggested that there wasnt a problem attracting more voters on the Democratic side. I never suggested that the Democrats have ALL the answers either.

    Of course they can do better and need too.
    Last edited by kidfresh512; 01-22-2022 at 01:34 PM.

  4. #39109
    Invincible Member numberthirty's Avatar
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    I mean, let's look at some of this...

    - Biden's press secretary saying "Well, do you think that we should send every American a Covid test kit?..." when asked about it?

    No way that I can think of to put that on the shoulders of KS.

    - The Biden administration not having already had testing kits mailed to homes during the "Delta..." phase of this pandemic?

    No way that I can think of to put that on the shoulders of KS.

    I get that folks have an issue with her. You just don't really need some nefarious plot to undermine a party that will do the above all on their own.

  5. #39110
    Invincible Member Kirby101's Avatar
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    "Latino voters" is becoming to broad a category. Who are we talking about here? What is the country of origin for their family? How long has their family been here? Are they first generation citizens, or tenth? What is their religious affiliation? Are they from Central America? South America? The Caribbean? Are they low income workers or rich professionals or business owners.
    I don't know if the Dems have a problem with Latinos, or they are just becoming more like other Americans.
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  6. #39111
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    Quote Originally Posted by kidfresh512 View Post
    If they believe in the fanatical direction that the majority of the party is taking, then yes, its culty. And it isn't a fringe of the GOP either or only the far right. Anyone that dares to stand up and say that the election was fair, or Trump is a fraud gets censured. The examples are obvious. So you can't say that is a pocket of the party or a fringe. It is all the party stands for now.

    If the Far Right was the only issue, then the rest of the party should have no problem putting them in their place should they? But, they don't. They still vote for people that support the worst elements of the base. They do not suffer any political consequences for repeating far right lies and hate.

    I never suggested that there wasnt a problem attracting more voters on the Democratic side. I never suggested that the Democrats have ALL the answers either.

    Of course they can do better and need too.
    I fully respect your opinion and we'll agree to disagree, because I don't think the entire party is one way. The infrastructure bill passed 69-30, showing that bipartisanship is possible.

    I'm surrounded by a lot of Cuban-Americans and they are firmly against socialist policies. And that's because, according to them, they saw where they can lead and suffered greatly because of them. Same goes for a lot of Venezuelans, Ecuadorians, and Brazilians. I think understanding that history is important rather than lumping them in as cultists. Quite the contrary actually, considering the state of the nations they came from.
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  7. #39112
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kirby101 View Post
    "Latino voters" is becoming to broad a category. Who are we talking about here? What is the country of origin for their family? How long has their family been here? Are they first generation citizens, or tenth? What is their religious affiliation? Are they from Central America? South America? The Caribbean? Are they low income workers or rich professionals or business owners.
    I don't know if the Dems have a problem with Latinos, or they are just becoming more like other Americans.
    All good questions and I think it's required to drill down and find out. It appears to be across the board in terms of financial status, from laborers to CEOs. Cubans in particular, whether first or tenth generation, are still dealing with a lot of trauma their families endured.
    You're asking the right questions, but I think that Democrat, Latino strategist knows what he's talking about in his essay.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jbenito View Post
    I fully respect your opinion and we'll agree to disagree, because I don't think the entire party is one way. The infrastructure bill passed 69-30, showing that bipartisanship is possible.

    I'm surrounded by a lot of Cuban-Americans and they are firmly against socialist policies. And that's because, according to them, they saw where they can lead and suffered greatly because of them. Same goes for a lot of Venezuelans, Ecuadorians, and Brazilians. I think understanding that history is important rather than lumping them in as cultists. Quite the contrary actually, considering the state of the nations they came from.
    No one is trying to turn America into Venezuela. Thats a right wing talking point that people buy into. Unfortunately, it's a talking point that does work for some voters. And they vote against their own self interest because of it. The history of those countries is important. Labeling Democrats as socialists is not reality.
    Last edited by kidfresh512; 01-22-2022 at 01:58 PM.

  9. #39114
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    Quote Originally Posted by kidfresh512 View Post
    No one is trying to turn America into Venezuela. Thats a right wing talking point that people buy into. Unfortunately, it's a talking point that does work for some voters. And they vote against their own self interest because of it. The history of those countries is important. Labeling Democrats as socialists is not reality.
    You feel they're buying into talking points, like a cult. Understood. I'd suggest taking the time to look into how they really feel. I had no interest in doing so at first because I couldn't fathom why they would vote Republican, but I was asked by peers to hear some presentations from conservative latino groups and I learned a lot. I may not agree with all of their opinions and beliefs but I found myself much better educated for it.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kirby101 View Post
    "Latino voters" is becoming to broad a category. Who are we talking about here? What is the country of origin for their family? How long has their family been here? Are they first generation citizens, or tenth? What is their religious affiliation? Are they from Central America? South America? The Caribbean? Are they low income workers or rich professionals or business owners.
    I don't know if the Dems have a problem with Latinos, or they are just becoming more like other Americans.
    Its mainly Cubans who the republicans are using the red scare on them for their votes isn't?

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    Quote Originally Posted by kidfresh512 View Post
    No one is trying to turn America into Venezuela. Thats a right wing talking point that people buy into. Unfortunately, it's a talking point that does work for some voters. And they vote against their own self interest because of it. The history of those countries is important. Labeling Democrats as socialists is not reality.
    I noticed the right loves to use fear mongering tactics on their base. Fox has been going on about Hillary running in 2024 and their base is riled up. However, I can't find any information on Hillary saying she's going to run.

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    Quote Originally Posted by shooshoomanjoe View Post
    I noticed the right loves to use fear mongering tactics on their base. Fox has been going on about Hillary running in 2024 and their base is riled up. However, I can't find any information on Hillary saying she's going to run.
    In 2021 I believe Fox News averaged around 2.5 million primetime viewers. Trump received like 74 million votes I think so the majority of Republican voters aren't watching Fox News.
    For this particular segment of the population, you'd have to check what Galavisión, Telemundo, Globo, Univision, and CNN en español are serving up.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Malvolio View Post
    In all fairness, you didn't just say "once a month." You also said, "...everybody just seems to point out how s***ty he is and wonder why he's still on HBO." I defended Maher and so did Iron Maiden and Username taken. I don't like the idea of putting everyone into a box of "I love this guy 100%" or "I hate this guy 100%." To be sure, some people do easily fit into boxes like that. But for me, Bill Maher is not one of them. Yes, sometimes I do think he's an *******. He is these days when it comes to his opposition to Covid restrictions. But he is right when he points out absurdities on the left that make it difficult for some people to bring themselves to vote for Democratic candidates. I wish more people would consider those absurdities instead of reflexively getting defensive about it.
    Maher offered a platform to Milo Yiannopolous, so I can't be on the fence that he's not getting any love for me ever again.

    If I "reflexively" hate anyone who gives a white nationalist a chance to get on their soapbox, I just call that "good reflexes".
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jbenito View Post
    In 2021 I believe Fox News averaged around 2.5 million primetime viewers. Trump received like 74 million votes I think so the majority of Republican voters aren't watching Fox News.
    For this particular segment of the population, you'd have to check what Galavisión, Telemundo, Globo, Univision, and CNN en español are serving up.
    My apolitical parents watch Telemundo. Not sure what they report but my parents were very anti trump.

  15. #39120
    I am invenitable Jack Dracula's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kirby101 View Post
    "Latino voters" is becoming to broad a category. Who are we talking about here? What is the country of origin for their family? How long has their family been here? Are they first generation citizens, or tenth? What is their religious affiliation? Are they from Central America? South America? The Caribbean? Are they low income workers or rich professionals or business owners.
    I don't know if the Dems have a problem with Latinos, or they are just becoming more like other Americans.
    All of those demographics share a few things in common, they or their parents were very likely brought up in devoutly religious, male-centric authoritarian households where the ideas of a strong work-ethic and financial conservatism were stressed.
    The ideas of welfare, LGBTQ rights and abortion are likely to be less popular.
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