1. #37321
    Extraordinary Member babyblob's Avatar
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    I have seen a lot of 2022 campaign ads so far. And all of them from the GOP and all of them 30 second fear monger pieces. The Immigrants are bring covid, crime and stolen elections, The Dems are brainwashing our kids with CRT and socialist agendas. They show burning building and say this is America with the Dems.

    Where are the Democrat candidates saying look this is darn sure what is going to happen if you vote for this person. These are the things they support and this is what they will take from you?

    I would rather Democrat voters have the fear of what will happen if they dont vote then the "Meh.." attitude that many seem to get at times.
    Last edited by babyblob; 12-05-2021 at 08:37 AM.
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  2. #37322
    Ultimate Member Tendrin's Avatar
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    Imagine being the kind of dork who thinks Democrats are 'consistently exagerating the harm of covid'.

  3. #37323
    Extraordinary Member babyblob's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tendrin View Post
    Imagine being the kind of dork who thinks Democrats are 'consistently exagerating the harm of covid'.
    Those people who think that will keep thinking it as they refuse a mask, refuse a vaccine, and get put on a breathing machine thinking "These nurses are sold on the liberal plot." as their heart stops.
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  4. #37324
    Invincible Jersey Girl Tami's Avatar
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    I was laying down for a few minutes and found myself thinking about Mitch McConnell and the Congressional Republicans.

    The Democrats are currently in the front line, which is the most dangerous place to be politically (and militarily which is where my analogy is coming from) .

    The Republicans are rear, like Archers who send their arrows flying over the heads of the front line and towards the enemy. They are shielded from direct attack so long as they keep their heads down, and they can have as much or as little influence as they wish.

    However, these current Republicans are shooting their arrows into the backs of the Front line. Once the Front line goes down, they won't be shielded any longer an the 'enemy' will be going after them. The enemy in this case being all of the issues, problems, conflicts, or whatever that a government needs to be dealing with.

    They are actually better off as the minority party, and they probably don't even realize it.
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  5. #37325
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    Quote Originally Posted by babyblob View Post
    I have seen a lot of 2022 campaign ads so far. And all of them from the GOP and all of them 30 second fear monger pieces. The Immigrants are bring covid, crime and stolen elections, The Dems are brainwashing our kids with CRT and socialist agendas. They show burning building and say this is America with the Dems.

    Where are the Democrat candidates saying look this is darn sure what is going to happen if you vote for this person. These are the things they support and this is what they will take from you?

    I would rather Democrat voters have the fear of what will happen if they dont vote then the "Meh.." attitude that many seem to get at times
    .
    Exactly this.

    It's not even an unfounded fear, it's quite real now. There's now the distinct possibility of decades of reproductive rights progress being tossed away and I can bet it's not going to end there.

    After they are done with abortion it will be gay marriage next. The Court will probably throw it back to the states and a good chunk of states will probably ban it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tendrin View Post
    Imagine being the kind of dork who thinks Democrats are 'consistently exagerating the harm of covid'.
    It's interesting because Bill Maher has been saying that, despite being a staunch liberal. However it seems to be about the money for him - he's currently on tour and is annoyed that he's selling less tickets in "blue states and cities" whereas he's selling well in "red states and cities due to less restrictions", at least that's what he's claiming. When it impacts their wallets, I guess people will say anything.
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  7. #37327
    Ultimate Member Mister Mets's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tendrin View Post
    Imagine being the kind of dork who thinks Democrats are 'consistently exagerating the harm of covid'.
    It's much worse to be the type of person who can not consider new evidence.

    The Brookings institute did a poll, and found numerous instances in which Americans, as well as Democrats in particular, consistently exaggerate the harm of Covid.

    https://www.brookings.edu/research/h...and-behaviors/

    When asked to estimate the share of deaths by age group, the average American dramatically overestimates the share of COVID-19 deaths from people aged 24 and younger, putting it around 8%, when in fact it was 0.1% through August and has remained close to that level since. Meanwhile the elderly, those 65 and older, had accounted for 81% of deaths at the time of the survey (and 79% through November). Democrats were further off than Republicans and more likely to overstate the risks to young people, even after accounting for age, race, gender, geographic, and educational differences.
    The U.S. public is also deeply misinformed about the severity of the virus for the average infected person. In December, we asked, “What percentage of people who have been infected by the coronavirus needed to be hospitalized?”

    The correct answer is not precisely known, but it is highly likely to be between 1% and 5% according to the best available estimates, and it is unlikely to be much higher or lower. We discuss the data and logic behind this conclusion in the appendix.

    Less than one in five U.S. adults (18%) give a correct answer of between 1 and 5%. Many adults (35%) say that at least half of infected people need hospitalization. If that were true, the millions of resulting patients would have overwhelmed hospitals throughout the pandemic.

    Democrats are much more likely than Republicans to overestimate this harm. Forty-one percent of Democrats and 28% of Republicans answered that half or more of those infected by COVID-19 need to be hospitalized. Republicans were also far more likely to get the correct answer, with 26% correctly identifying the risk compared to just 10% of Democrats.
    These errors in factual knowledge appear to have important real-world implications. Those who overestimate risks to young people or hold an exaggerated sense of risk upon infection are more likely to favor closing schools, restaurants, and other businesses.
    The article also mentions the harm done when Republicans downplay Covid, but this doesn't seem to be a point in contention on this thread.

    It's possible that the study is flawed, and that Democrats consistently have an accurate understanding of how dangerous Covid is for the average American, or the odds that someone with Covid will be hospitalized.

    But if the study is accurate, it is objectively true that Democrats consistently exaggerate the harm of Covid. It's a bad thing to argue against the truth, and especially to go after someone personally who is correct about a factual matter.
    Sincerely,
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  8. #37328
    Invincible Jersey Girl Tami's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mister Mets View Post
    It's much worse to be the type of person who can not consider new evidence.

    The Brookings institute did a poll, and found numerous instances in which Americans, as well as Democrats in particular, consistently exaggerate the harm of Covid.

    https://www.brookings.edu/research/h...and-behaviors/







    The article also mentions the harm done when Republicans downplay Covid, but this doesn't seem to be a point in contention on this thread.

    It's possible that the study is flawed, and that Democrats consistently have an accurate understanding of how dangerous Covid is for the average American, or the odds that someone with Covid will be hospitalized.

    But if the study is accurate, it is objectively true that Democrats consistently exaggerate the harm of Covid. It's a bad thing to argue against the truth, and especially to go after someone personally who is correct about a factual matter.
    It's better to overstate the threat than to underestimate it. The people who survive are the ones who plan for the worst and hope for the best.

    I'm not talking about Chicken Little, I'm talking about worst case scenarios where there is a clear and present danger.

    If you need 1 million vaccine doses, order 1.5 million doses. If you think that some of the ICUs are going to be taxed, plan as if ALL of the ICUs are going to be filed up everywhere.

    Trump downplayed the threat of COVID and we ended up with a serious Anti-Vaxxer problem.

    If Biden and his administration is saying that things could get worse, but that there are ways to mitigate the danger, then more lives will be saved.

    The Scientists and Medical Professionals are the first ones who will know the answers. So we can't expect the general population, or even President Biden, to know before they do.
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  9. #37329
    Ultimate Member Tendrin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mister Mets View Post
    It's much worse to be the type of person who can not consider new evidence.
    787,000 Americans are dead, Mets, and many of those deaths are likely to have been avoidable and weren't thanks to your party's misrepresentations and fabrications around the virus, but sure, let's chastise 'the democrats', which apparently just means a random sampling of democratic leaning voters, for thinking that more people who get covid need to be hospitalized than are, and the risks to young people are 'greater than they are', when there's still a great deal we don't actually know about the risks to young people in the first place, especially when it comes to long covid, and that's not even getting into messy realities about who's being forced to take what risks when it comes to covid.

    FFS, these things are not even remotely similar, but I guess if it lets you pat yourself on the back because you can cite a study I didn't know about, you go ahead and do that.

    Forgive me for assuming when you said 'the democrats' that you actually meant the elected officials of the party.
    Last edited by Tendrin; 12-05-2021 at 09:56 AM.

  10. #37330
    Ultimate Member Tendrin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jbenito View Post
    It's interesting because Bill Maher has been saying that, despite being a staunch liberal. However it seems to be about the money for him - he's currently on tour and is annoyed that he's selling less tickets in "blue states and cities" whereas he's selling well in "red states and cities due to less restrictions", at least that's what he's claiming. When it impacts their wallets, I guess people will say anything.
    Bill Maher is a reactionary bigot. While he's largely considered 'liberal' by many, he's mostly a reactionary anti-religious atheist in the dawkins mold. Sometimes, that'll make him seem liberal. Ask him not to be racist, transphobic, or islamaphobic, however, and Bill Maher quickly exposes just what a douche he is.

  11. #37331
    Ultimate Member Kirby101's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mister Mets View Post
    It's much worse to be the type of person who can not consider new evidence.
    That this is coming from a Republican as a criticism of Democrats is simply hilarious.
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    So many questions about this that I probably don't want to know the answers to. All I can say is, imagine when the surgeon went home and did whatever version of "Honey, you'll never guess what I did today...."

    https://www.yahoo.com/news/bomb-squa...100800683.html

    What a pain in the ass for the British taxpayer, though...

  13. #37333
    Ultimate Member Mister Mets's Avatar
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    Former war hero, Senate majority leader and Republican nominee for Vice President and President, Bob Dole has passed away at the age of 98.

    https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news...ies-98-n953981

    Despite failing in his quest for the presidency, Dole had an impressive run in politics. He was the top-ranking Republican in the Senate for nearly 11 years (a record until Sen. Mitch McConnell, R-Ky., beat it); he was President Gerald Ford's running mate in 1976; and in January 2018, he received a Congressional Gold Medal, making him only the eighth senator to be so honored.

    "I want to thank all those who've said such kind words about me," Dole said when he received the award, the highest civilian honor bestowed by Congress. Then he joked: "They're probably not true, but they were nice."

    Dole came from humble beginnings. He was born Robert Joseph Dole on July 22, 1923, in Russell; his father sold dairy products and his mother was a traveling saleswoman, selling sewing machines and other products.
    Sincerely,
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  14. #37334
    Ultimate Member Mister Mets's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tami View Post
    It's better to overstate the threat than to underestimate it. The people who survive are the ones who plan for the worst and hope for the best.

    I'm not talking about Chicken Little, I'm talking about worst case scenarios where there is a clear and present danger.

    If you need 1 million vaccine doses, order 1.5 million doses. If you think that some of the ICUs are going to be taxed, plan as if ALL of the ICUs are going to be filed up everywhere.

    Trump downplayed the threat of COVID and we ended up with a serious Anti-Vaxxer problem.

    If Biden and his administration is saying that things could get worse, but that there are ways to mitigate the danger, then more lives will be saved.

    The Scientists and Medical Professionals are the first ones who will know the answers. So we can't expect the general population, or even President Biden, to know before they do.
    I completely understand the argument that worrying too much is worse than not worrying enough. But that's a separate argument.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tendrin View Post
    787,000 Americans are dead, Mets, and many of those deaths are likely to have been avoidable and weren't thanks to your party's misrepresentations and fabrications around the virus, but sure, let's chastise 'the democrats', which apparently just means a random sampling of democratic leaning voters, for thinking that more people who get covid need to be hospitalized than are, and the risks to young people are 'greater than they are', when there's still a great deal we don't actually know about the risks to young people in the first place, especially when it comes to long covid, and that's not even getting into messy realities about who's being forced to take what risks when it comes to covid.

    FFS, these things are not even remotely similar, but I guess if it lets you pat yourself on the back because you can cite a study I didn't know about, you go ahead and do that.

    Forgive me for assuming when you said 'the democrats' that you actually meant the elected officials of the party.
    You're forgiven, although I did have the link in the original post, so it's not as if anything was hidden.

    I'm not sure we can assume that elected Democrats and their staff will have a perfect understanding of the risks of Covid. They're going to be influenced by the same sources of information as the voters.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kirby101 View Post
    That this is coming from a Republican as a criticism of Democrats is simply hilarious.
    If you care about truth, you should be comfortable discussing facts that are inconvenient. You should strive to avoid criticizing someone for saying something that is accurate, and be willing to defend people on the other side when they are supported by evidence.

    Otherwise, the conclusion is that you don't care about evidence, and it's all just pretext.
    Sincerely,
    Thomas Mets

  15. #37335
    Ultimate Member Tendrin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mister Mets View Post
    I'm not sure we can assume that elected Democrats and their staff will have a perfect understanding of the risks of Covid. They're going to be influenced by the same sources of information as the voters.
    I didn't say they did, now did I? However, 787,000 people are dead, and a lot of deaths can be laid directly at the feet of one party. So it seems to me a little ridiculous to be drawing any kind of equivalence on 'well, democratic voiters think covid is deadlier than it is' when we have one party continually declaring it a summer cold and promoting anti-vaccinatrion narratives that are getting people actively killed right now. One set of people you're talking about are a little wrong. The other one is killing people.

    But embracing murderous policies is nothing new for American conservatism and the GOP.
    Last edited by Tendrin; 12-05-2021 at 10:28 AM.

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