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  1. #2611
    Invincible Jersey Girl Tami's Avatar
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    Australia probes US police assault on its journalists

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    Republicans Fear Trump’s Criticism of Mail-In Ballots Will Hurt Them


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    Trump Finally Gets the War He Wanted


    President Donald Trump finally got the war he wanted. It isn’t in Afghanistan, or Iraq, Syria, or North Korea. It’s right here in Washington, D.C., where on Monday the president claimed moral and Constitutional authority and ordered federal law enforcement and the U.S. military to turn against Americans who opposed him.
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  2. #2612
    CBR's Good Fairy Kieran_Frost's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by babyblob View Post
    My aunt a huge Trump supporters and I watched his address Monday. She is fine with the military being called out. Openly talks about shooting the rioters and looters.
    If you think of giant black spots on a country's history, you think of Tiananmen Square. You think of Jallianwala Bagh. You think of Bloody Sunday. THESE ARE HORRIBLE THINGS TO THINK OF! Please mention these events to your aunt, make her see history does NOT look kindly on any moment where a country shoots dead its own citizen for protesting an oppressive regime.
    "We are Shakespeare. We are Michelangelo. We are Tchaikovsky. We are Turing. We are Mercury. We are Wilde. We are Lincoln, Lorca, Leonardo da Vinci. We are Alexander the Great. We are Fredrick the Great. We are Rustin. We are Addams. We are Marsha! Marsha Marsha Marsha! We so generous, we DeGeneres. We are Ziggy Stardust hooked to the silver screen. Controversially we are Malcolm X. We are Plato. We are Aristotle. We are RuPaul, god dammit! And yes, we are Woolf."

  3. #2613
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    The title of this thread has special meaning this morning.

    Image.jpg

    I came to a conclusion today. If friends of mine, or even family, can still deny this president is a bigot and desires to be the kind of tyrant Americans spent the 20th Century spilling their blood to oppose, they are not my friends.

  4. #2614
    Invincible Jersey Girl Tami's Avatar
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    Wonderful speech by Joe Biden, a speech any president would be and should be proud of, a speech the country should be proud of and elect him President.

    Saying this, not as a bad thing but as a good ideal, that America are the Saiyans of Earth. No matter how badly we get beat down, we come back even stronger.
    Original join date: 11/23/2004
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  5. #2615
    Uncanny Member XPac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kieran_Frost View Post
    If you think of giant black spots on a country's history, you think of Tiananmen Square. You think of Jallianwala Bagh. You think of Bloody Sunday. THESE ARE HORRIBLE THINGS TO THINK OF! Please mention these events to your aunt, make her see history does NOT look kindly on any moment where a country shoots dead its own citizen for protesting an oppressive regime.
    There is a difference between sending the militay in to shoot protestors of an oppressive regime, and sending the military in to stop a riot with looters trying to burn down buildings though. The Insurrection Act was used in 92 to call in the military and end the LA riots following the Rodney King incident (though that was a case of the governor requesting the assistance... BIG difference here).

    If the police and national guard can't stop the rioting and looting and if the rioting doesn't just stop on its own after a certain point, I do think there is a valid arguement to send in the military. I 100% don't believe it should be done without the governmor asking for the assistance... but in the least I think there's a fair arguement there to do it if it can't be done some other way. They obviously can't allow rioters looting and burning down buildings to continue.

    However, if this is done without the governors consent, Trump will be doing something unprecidented as far as flexing his executive powers. And that's legitimately scary.

    Hopefully things just die down on their own (I sort of get the feeling they're starting too.... but it's hard to tell based on news coverage) and all of this will be moot.

  6. #2616
    Uncanny Member XPac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tami View Post
    Wonderful speech by Joe Biden, a speech any president would be and should be proud of, a speech the country should be proud of and elect him President.

    Saying this, not as a bad thing but as a good ideal, that America are the Saiyans of Earth. No matter how badly we get beat down, we come back even stronger.
    Haven't heard it yet, but hopefully it's better than his earlier one where he's suggesting police shoot unarmed suspects in the leg instead of the heart. That one didn't go over well with some people.

    But if he gave a presidential speech, that's great to hear... right now it's what we need.

  7. #2617
    Mighty Member babyblob's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by XPac View Post
    There is a difference between sending the militay in to shoot protestors of an oppressive regime, and sending the military in to stop a riot with looters trying to burn down buildings though. The Insurrection Act was used in 92 to call in the military and end the LA riots following the Rodney King incident (though that was a case of the governor requesting the assistance... BIG difference here).

    If the police and national guard can't stop the rioting and looting and if the rioting doesn't just stop on its own after a certain point, I do think there is a valid arguement to send in the military. I 100% don't believe it should be done without the governmor asking for the assistance... but in the least I think there's a fair arguement there to do it if it can't be done some other way. They obviously can't allow rioters looting and burning down buildings to continue.

    However, if this is done without the governors consent, Trump will be doing something unprecidented as far as flexing his executive powers. And that's legitimately scary.

    Hopefully things just die down on their own (I sort of get the feeling they're starting too.... but it's hard to tell based on news coverage) and all of this will be moot.
    I agree that the looting and rioting needs to stop. And last night seem more calm then the other nights. I mean there were still looting and such but not as widespread. I am just very nervous about Trump or any president using the military against the citizens of their own country. It could lead to more problems in the long run. And where does it stop. What if he deems the protesters that are sure to show up outside of the RNC a crisis that has to be put down. I mean I know this is a little extreme example but it is a slippery slop. And one i would rather not go down.
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  8. #2618
    Old school comic book fan WestPhillyPunisher's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DrNewGod View Post
    The title of this thread has special meaning this morning.

    Image.jpg

    I came to a conclusion today. If friends of mine, or even family, can still deny this president is a bigot and desires to be the kind of tyrant Americans spent the 20th Century spilling their blood to oppose, they are not my friends.
    By the by, I don't know if anyone noticed this, and I barely did myself, but take note of that bible Trump is holding, I think it looks like it's upside down. More proof that it was nothing more than a prop to him.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tami View Post
    Wonderful speech by Joe Biden, a speech any president would be and should be proud of, a speech the country should be proud of and elect him President.

    Saying this, not as a bad thing but as a good ideal, that America are the Saiyans of Earth. No matter how badly we get beat down, we come back even stronger.
    I listened to the speech on KYW (Philly's local all news radio station) and yeah, Biden did do a great job. He displayed passion, humility, humanity and quiet strength, worthwhile attributes needed in a president.
    Avatar: Here's to the late, great Steve Dillon. Best. Punisher. Artist. EVER!

  9. #2619
    CBR's Good Fairy Kieran_Frost's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by XPac View Post
    There is a difference between sending the militay in to shoot protestors of an oppressive regime, and sending the military in to stop a riot with looters trying to burn down buildings though...
    All three instances I listed were times the military were sent in to "just control the situation..."

    Quote Originally Posted by babyblob View Post
    I am just very nervous about Trump or any president using the military against the citizens of their own country. It could lead to more problems in the long run. And where does it stop.
    And on top of that, he has direct access to Blackwater (the largest private army in the country) thanks to his Secretary of Education. There's a reason the military in the UK swears allegiance to Queen NOT to the Prime Minister.
    Last edited by Kieran_Frost; 06-02-2020 at 08:01 AM.
    "We are Shakespeare. We are Michelangelo. We are Tchaikovsky. We are Turing. We are Mercury. We are Wilde. We are Lincoln, Lorca, Leonardo da Vinci. We are Alexander the Great. We are Fredrick the Great. We are Rustin. We are Addams. We are Marsha! Marsha Marsha Marsha! We so generous, we DeGeneres. We are Ziggy Stardust hooked to the silver screen. Controversially we are Malcolm X. We are Plato. We are Aristotle. We are RuPaul, god dammit! And yes, we are Woolf."

  10. #2620
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    Quote Originally Posted by XPac View Post
    There is a difference between sending the militay in to shoot protestors of an oppressive regime, and sending the military in to stop a riot with looters trying to burn down buildings though. The Insurrection Act was used in 92 to call in the military and end the LA riots following the Rodney King incident (though that was a case of the governor requesting the assistance... BIG difference here).

    If the police and national guard can't stop the rioting and looting and if the rioting doesn't just stop on its own after a certain point, I do think there is a valid arguement to send in the military. I 100% don't believe it should be done without the governmor asking for the assistance... but in the least I think there's a fair arguement there to do it if it can't be done some other way. They obviously can't allow rioters looting and burning down buildings to continue.

    However, if this is done without the governors consent, Trump will be doing something unprecidented as far as flexing his executive powers. And that's legitimately scary.

    Hopefully things just die down on their own (I sort of get the feeling they're starting too.... but it's hard to tell based on news coverage) and all of this will be moot.
    Flatly, no responsible governor should dare give Trump that opening. If he gets troops under orders on our own soil, I don't know if we could get that genie back in the bottle short of an outright civil war.

  11. #2621
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kieran_Frost View Post
    All three instances I listed were times the military were sent in to "just control the situation..."


    And on top of that, he has direct access to Blackwater (the largest private army in the country) thanks to his Secretary of Education. There's a reason the military in the UK swears allegiance to Queen NOT to the Prime Minister.
    In the US, service members swear to The Constitution, the president just happens to be the highest of the officers whose (lawful) orders they also swear to obey. Strictly speaking, The Constitution is intended to be the nation's sovereign.

    Your point about Blackwater is sound. I have feared them forming the core of an American Brownshirts organization for some time. One of the many things for which I detest the Bush (43) Administration is that they enabled the organizations foundation and flourishing. One of my few great disappointments with the Obama Administration is that it did not pull Blackwater's fangs.

  12. #2622
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    The Northside Chicago protest ended not very far from where I live. I could hear the chanting and the news helicopter was right over my block for least an hour and half if not two. At least three thousand people were out there ( although one reporter suggested it might have been up to five).I'll admit it, I didn't want to go outside. I took a walk this morning and it seems like only one store was vandalized one street over. It was generally peaceful. Interestingly enough, most of what looting happened was downtown again and in one of the suburbs.

  13. #2623
    Astonishing Member jetengine's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DrNewGod View Post
    In the US, service members swear to The Constitution, the president just happens to be the highest of the officers whose (lawful) orders they also swear to obey. Strictly speaking, The Constitution is intended to be the nation's sovereign.

    Your point about Blackwater is sound. I have feared them forming the core of an American Brownshirts organization for some time. One of the many things for which I detest the Bush (43) Administration is that they enabled the organizations foundation and flourishing. One of my few great disappointments with the Obama Administration is that it did not pull Blackwater's fangs.
    Isnt Blackwater technically a buisness and the government cant just shut it down for "reasons" despite how horrible they are ? Or is it more a case of "Yeah turns out all the contracts you had have been cancelled"

  14. #2624
    Uncanny Member XPac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by babyblob View Post
    I agree that the looting and rioting needs to stop. And last night seem more calm then the other nights. I mean there were still looting and such but not as widespread. I am just very nervous about Trump or any president using the military against the citizens of their own country. It could lead to more problems in the long run. And where does it stop. What if he deems the protesters that are sure to show up outside of the RNC a crisis that has to be put down. I mean I know this is a little extreme example but it is a slippery slop. And one i would rather not go down.
    This is definately a genie you don't want getting out of the bottle if it can be helped. It's arguably not hard to justify sending in the military to stop looters burning down buildings... but this becomes a slippery slope if you let it, like you said. It's what Palpatine did in freaking Star Wars if you replace the Droid Army with rioting protesters.

    But this is another reason to stop the riots. Outside the obvious reasons of ruining innocent peoples lives, it potentially opening the door for something no one wants. It's an excuse to hand a lot of power to a person who isn't the most diplomatic guy in the world (and that's me trying to say it in the nicest possible way).

    Hopefully things will start to calm down. Escalation hurts us all in the long run.

  15. #2625
    Uncanny Member XPac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kieran_Frost View Post
    All three instances I listed were times the military were sent in to "just control the situation..."


    And on top of that, he has direct access to Blackwater (the largest private army in the country) thanks to his Secretary of Education. There's a reason the military in the UK swears allegiance to Queen NOT to the Prime Minister.
    Frankly I'm not convinced the military swearing alligence to a queen over an elected official is in any way better. That's exactly how dictatorships start. But that's a topic of discussion for another day.

    But as far as sending the military into a situation to control the situation... I don't think that's entirely wrong in principal. They did in in 92 to stop the LA riots, and it worked. If the rioting and looting doesn't stop on it's own and of the police and national guard can't stop it, I'm not sure what other options there are.

    But sending the US army after US citizens is certainly a VERY VERY undesireable option for many many may reasons... especially with this president in this particular crisis.

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